Selling to NH resident - from MA resident?

[calsdad]

This would be for a semi-auto shotgun.

No FTF for MA resident to NH resident sale (FTF only within MA - resident to resident) correct?

Does it matter if the sale goes thru a MA dealer - or a NH dealer?

 

[mikem317]

Need to go through an FFL per 1968 GCA because it's not intra-state.

EDIT: I believe it would have to go through a NH FFL because that's the recipient's state of domicile.

 

[HTRN]

This would be for a semi-auto shotgun.

No FTF for MA resident to NH resident sale (FTF only within MA - resident to resident) correct?

Correct.

Does it matter if the sale goes thru a MA dealer - or a NH dealer?

Well, even if buyer has a non-resident LTC, they cannot buy anything in MA. So the MA laws end up prohibiting him from buying it from a MA dealer, in MA.

 

[Kevlar]

No FTF for MA resident to NH resident sale (FTF only within MA - resident to resident) correct?

Correct.

Does it matter if the sale goes thru a MA dealer - or a NH dealer?

Per Federal law, long guns can be transferred by a FFL in any State, subject to that State's laws.

Unfortunately, MA law prohibits transfers to non-residents, even with a NR LTC.

EDIT: I believe it would have to go through a NH FFL because that's the recipient's state of domicile.

Not applicable to long guns, see above.

 

[calsdad]

Correct.




Well, even if buyer has a non-resident LTC, they cannot buy anything in MA. So the MA laws end up prohibiting him from buying it from a MA dealer, in MA.

Thanks - that's the key piece of info I didn't think of. Have to use a NH FFL - not a big deal. I think I even have some of the paper FA-10's still around so I can file one of those and avoid that whole electronic FA-10 debacle.

 

[appraiser]

if you bring it to a NH FFL there is no need for a FA-10

 

[calsdad]

if you bring it to a NH FFL there is no need for a FA-10

Yes there is. I still have to file an FA-10 - or my name is still on the gun in the MA database.

 

[Kevlar]

Yes there is. I still have to file an FA-10 - or my name is still on the gun in the MA database.

No, Glockaholic is correct, there is no requirement to report transfers to any FFL...

The provisions of section one hundred and twenty-eight shall not apply to any person who ... sells or transfers a firearm, rifle or shotgun to ... a federally licensed firearms dealer ...

http://www.malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section128A

Further, there is no mechanism by which to remove a gun listed under your name in the database. As I understand it, every time a gun is transferred, and a FA-10 is filed, it is merely added to the transferee's record, but never removed from the transferor's record.

 

[calsdad]

No, Glockaholic is correct, there is no requirement to report transfers to any FFL...



http://www.malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section128A

Further, there is no mechanism by which to remove a gun listed under your name in the database. As I understand it, every time a gun is transferred, and a FA-10 is filed, it is merely added to the transferee's record, but never removed from the transferor's record.

If the last FA-10 that is filed on that particular gun - is the one where it is transferred to me - and "something bad" happens with it - then my name is on it in the MA database as the last owner.

I don't believe you would want to have the last FA-10 filed on a particular gun to be the one where you are listed as the last owner - if you don't actually own the gun any more.

The "requirement" (if that is what it says) is irelevant IMHO - like you said in the last paragraph - if the record keeping is cumulative - then the last record in the pile should be the one where you tell them the gun is no longer owned by you.

 

[drgrant]

This would be for a semi-auto shotgun.

No FTF for MA resident to NH resident sale (FTF only within MA - resident to resident) correct?

Does it matter if the sale goes thru a MA dealer - or a NH dealer?

Must go through NH FFL or other free state dealer. Can't happen in MA. (Simons Rock BS, etc)

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

Yes there is. I still have to file an FA-10 - or my name is still on the gun in the MA database.

Just get a receipt from the NH (or wherever) the FFL is that they took the gun in for a transfer with the make, model and serial number and date on it. That should be more than enough to cover your backside.

ETA: There is no way to remove your name from that gun- ever- in the MA database. So barring that, all you can do is keep documentation about what you did when you "disposed" of the firearm. If you really want to get pedantic, get a copy of the dealer's FFL and staple it to the receipt.

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

if you bring it to a NH FFL there is no need for a FA-10

There is no need for an FA-10 even on an MA dealer side transaction. The MA dealer will not fill out an FA-10 on an intake, ever. It only gets done if the next person that gets the gun is in MA. If the MA dealer sells it on gunbroker or something (out of state) there will never be another FA-10 (electronic or otherwise) done on that gun.

-Mike

 

[Kevlar]

If the last FA-10 that is filed on that particular gun - is the one where it is transferred to me - and "something bad" happens with it - then my name is on it in the MA database as the last owner.

I don't believe you would want to have the last FA-10 filed on a particular gun to be the one where you are listed as the last owner - if you don't actually own the gun any more.

The "requirement" (if that is what it says) is irelevant IMHO - like you said in the last paragraph - if the record keeping is cumulative - then the last record in the pile should be the one where you tell them the gun is no longer owned by you.

I definitely understand you're concern, but such are the limitations of the system.

FWIW, the transfer will be recorded in the NH FFL's bound book.

For further proof, you could also request a bill of sale.

 

[Len-2A Training]

No, Glockaholic is correct, there is no requirement to report transfers to any FFL...



http://www.malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section128A

Further, there is no mechanism by which to remove a gun listed under your name in the database. As I understand it, every time a gun is transferred, and a FA-10 is filed, it is merely added to the transferee's record, but never removed from the transferor's record.

PLEASE DO NOT SHOOT THE MESSENGER!

According to a lengthy phone conversation I had with Jason Guida, this is totally untrue. Jason claims that his reading of MGL REQUIRES all transfers to an FFL to be FA-10'd and failure to do so can lead to prosecution. He admits that dealers laugh at him when he tells them this.

Jason also told me that when someone requests a "certified list" from CJIS (as opposed to a PD just doing an online query of their own), said list will only contain "last owner" info on a gun . . . that guns you disposed of and did an FA-10 on will NOT show up.

Just get a receipt from the NH (or wherever) the FFL is that they took the gun in for a transfer with the make, model and serial number and date on it. That should be more than enough to cover your backside.

ETA: There is no way to remove your name from that gun- ever- in the MA database. So barring that, all you can do is keep documentation about what you did when you "disposed" of the firearm. If you really want to get pedantic, get a copy of the dealer's FFL and staple it to the receipt.

-Mike

See my comments above.

Dealers will not give non-dealers a copy of their FFL.

There is no need for an FA-10 even on an MA dealer side transaction. The MA dealer will not fill out an FA-10 on an intake, ever. It only gets done if the next person that gets the gun is in MA. If the MA dealer sells it on gunbroker or something (out of state) there will never be another FA-10 (electronic or otherwise) done on that gun.

-Mike

Agreed, dealer won't do it. We are supposed to do it and the e-FA-10 allegedly has an easy mechanism for this.

 

[Kevlar]

According to a lengthy phone conversation I had with Jason Guida, this is totally untrue. Jason claims that his reading of MGL REQUIRES all transfers to an FFL to be FA-10'd and failure to do so can lead to prosecution. He admits that dealers laugh at him when he tells them this.

I'm not surprised. That's not how I read MGL 140-128A:

The provisions of section one hundred and twenty-eight shall not apply to any resident of the commonwealth who, without being licensed as provided in section one hundred and twenty-two, sells or transfers to other than a federally licensed firearms dealer or organization named above not more than four firearms, including rifles and shotguns in any one calendar year; ... and provided, further, that such resident reports within seven days, in writing to the commissioner of the department of criminal justice information services on forms furnished by said executive director...

Jason also told me that when someone requests a "certified list" from CJIS (as opposed to a PD just doing an online query of their own), said list will only contain "last owner" info on a gun . . . that guns you disposed of and did an FA-10 on will NOT show up.

This is recent development, no?

Agreed, dealer won't do it. We are supposed to do it and the e-FA-10 allegedly has an easy mechanism for this.

I see that option listed on the eFA-10, but I am unconvinced it's a required by law. YMMV.

 

[ARV]

Yes there is. I still have to file an FA-10 - or my name is still on the gun in the MA database.

I would simply say "Go talk to FFL XYZ, it was transferred through them"

 

[Len-2A Training]

This is recent development, no?

I see that option listed on the eFA-10, but I am unconvinced it's a required by law. YMMV.

Not new, just not often used. Lazy officers will merely print out list from computer query. "Last owned" list according to Jason is available via a specific request to his office.

I would simply say "Go talk to FFL XYZ, it was transferred through them"

Try it with your PD when they come calling and let me know how it works out for you!! Or during visiting hours, ask one of your visitors to communicate with us!

 

[LittleCalm]

I am resurrecting this b/c I am trying to sell a rifle out of state. Is the safest course to sell thru the buyer's state's FFL and then just file a MA FA-10? Or can I not do this b/c it requires info of the buyer (technically the out of state FFL and it won't agree to be involved in the filing)? Either that or just get a copy of the bill of sale for the sale to the buyer. Must be some way to document the transfer from my end otherwise I can never sell a long gun out of state. In my case, the buyer happens to own a shop and is an FFL himself. I suppose other option is to go MA FFL to the buyer's FFL.

 

[Len-2A Training]

If you want to get it out of your name in the FRB system, just file FA-10 AFTER you do the transfer to the buyer's state FFL. Put down name of gun shop, FFL # (if known) or city/state and be done with it. Just make sure it's clear that it is an FFL and not a citizen in another state (that's a Fed felony). So if FFL in other state is "John Smith" w/o a business name I would put down "Smith - FFL, John" on the buyer info line.

I would also staple a copy of the Bill of Sale and FFL info to my copy and keep it forever in my records.

This is just my suggestion as to how I would do this . . . to me it is a CYA effort in case it ever shows up somewhere and someone queries you as a suspect. The procedure is not laid out in law clearly and I'm not pretending that it is. Jason claims violation of this is a crime but almost nobody does it and he admits that. [Before others jump on this.]

 

[LittleCalm]

Thank you Len. I would rather be conservative and fill out the form as you suggest. I don't see a downside. And I'd do it regardless of whether I go thru a MA FFL or just sell directly to the buyer FFL. Btw, I assume I can just ship directly to the buyer's FFL or I can meet FTF at buyer's FFL.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Yes, but VERIFY (BATFE have a website to do this for dealer FFL numbers) their FFL is legit and address the same BEFORE you ship! Obviously if you go there and it is a gun shop, there should be an FFL visible in the shop (required by BATFE).

 

[LittleCalm]

Thank you Len. Yes, been on the BATFE FFL checker site before so I will do that. Looks like we may end up going through a MA FFL, which makes my life easier.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Thank you Len. Yes, been on the BATFE FFL checker site before so I will do that. Looks like we may end up going through a MA FFL, which makes my life easier.

Not really. Looks like only 1 MA FFL actually does an FA-10 form for acquisitions from MA residents. I am not aware of any other dealer doing this, even though Jason insists it is the law . . . he also told me that dealers laugh at him when he tells them that they should do it.

So in 99% of the cases, you will still have to do your won MA FA-10 "I no longer own it" form.

 

[LittleCalm]

You are right, but I "feel" better about going through a MA FFL.