Selling homemade non-regulated parts

[parallax222]

Are there any legal issues here? If you made your own grips or barrels or something, provided its nothing that an FFL is needed for, are you in the clear?

 

[jayhitek]

I can't see how any of that would be a problem. it's just homemade... parts.

 

[greencobra]

i've typed enough this morning...someone else

 

[parallax222]

sorry.. i didnt see any other threads on this topic

 

[EddieCoyle]

I can't see how any of that would be a problem. it's just homemade... parts.

I can.

You might be OK making grips, but probably not barrels. Read this:

Because “manufacturing” is not defined by the GCA, courts have relied on the ordinary meaning of the word, including actions to “make a product suitable for use.” See, e.g., Broughman v. Carver, 624 F.3d 670, 675 (4th Cir. 2010). Section 921(a)(11)(B) defines a “dealer,” in relevant part, as any person engaged in the business of repairing firearms or of making or fitting special barrels, stocks, or trigger mechanisms to firearms.” A person meeting this definition is commonly referred to as a “gunsmith.”

Source: https://www.atf.gov/file/11711/download

To the ATF, "gunsmith" means you have either an 01 or 07 FFL.

 

[not new guy]

Not to mention liability concerns for the drivetrain-type parts (less so for grips, etc.).

 

[Deleted member 67409]

I can.

You might be OK making grips, but probably not barrels. Read this:


Source: https://www.atf.gov/file/11711/download

To the ATF, "gunsmith" means you have either an 01 or 07 FFL.

To be fair, the infrastructure required to make barrels is much bigger than making rifle or handgun grips. Making rifle barrels either requires farming out the forging or the like and then machining it, or doing the whole process in-house. The great rifle companies have very specialized rifling machines for that purpose, some of which are over a hundred years old.

Now, making stocks, which would fall under those regulations, would be a lot easier, because these days, that's just injection molding.

 

[parallax222]

i dont plan to be "making or fitting special barrels, stocks, or trigger mechanisms to firearms ". I actually dont plan to be dealing with barrels, stocks, or trigger mechanisms at all.

 

[MachineHead]

So, what are you looking to do? Make rails, sights, pins, springs—what?

 

[Nick Leduc]

ITAR regulations may become involved as well.

 

[JRT]

i dont plan to be "making or fitting special barrels, stocks, or trigger mechanisms to firearms ". I actually dont plan to be dealing with barrels, stocks, or trigger mechanisms at all.

If these parts are for your own use you can make anything you want, you can build a complete firearm. As long as you aren't a prohibited person blah blah blah.

 

[not new guy]

3D printable accessories?

 

[greencobra]

i bake pies!

 

[parallax222]

So, what are you looking to do? Make rails, sights, pins, springs—what?

Lets go with that. Rails, sights, pins, and springs. If that ATF ruling publication is what we're going by then wouldn't a firing pin, bolt carrier, gas block, muzzle device all be outside of the scope of that ruling?

 

[Demoman]

i bake pies!

I like pies.

 

[mac1911]

I can.

You might be OK making grips, but probably not barrels. Read this:


Source: https://www.atf.gov/file/11711/download

To the ATF, "gunsmith" means you have either an 01 or 07 FFL.

so if you just make barrels you need a 01 or 07?

 

[parallax222]

i believe the wording is "special barrels". Doesnt say anything about mil spec barrels

 

[EddieCoyle]

i believe the wording is "special barrels". Doesnt say anything about mil spec barrels

True. Are you prepared to spend the money to defend that in court?

I'm an 07 FFL and asked this very question to the ATF. Take this with a grain of salt, because I'm just some guy on the internet that says he has met with ATF agents dozens of times in the last few years (I really have - I have 30 tenants at The Mill, and I do eveything I can to keep them out of trouble, including attending the interviews when I can), but the ATF told me that if you're manufacturing major components (like barrels, and they specifically said "barrels") that you need an 07 FFL.

An 07 FFL costs $50 per year, and it's easy to get.

How much does your lawyer charge?

 

[EddieCoyle]

Lets go with that. Rails, sights, pins, and springs. If that ATF ruling publication is what we're going by then wouldn't a firing pin, bolt carrier, gas block, muzzle device all be outside of the scope of that ruling?

Dude, it's f***ing $50 per year. If you're that cheap, I'm not buying anything from you. Even a spring. FFS. How good are your components going to be if you won't spring for $50/year? I spend >$30K per year on components and I won't buy from a company that doesn't have an FFL. There are too many non-shady places to buy from.
All else being equal (and as as a start-up, you'd be pretty damn far from equal) would you rather buy shit from a company with an FFL vs. one that couldn't get one? Are you in China?

 

[EddieCoyle]

Lets go with that. Rails, sights, pins, and springs. If that ATF ruling publication is what we're going by then wouldn't a firing pin, bolt carrier, gas block, muzzle device all be outside of the scope of that ruling?

You've obviously made up your mind. So why are you even asking the question? Make your parts, take your chances, and any customer with a brain will avoid you, unless you're selling on price alone, which is usually a losing strategy. If what you're making isn't "special" in some way, shape, or form, why should someone buy a barrel (or any other critical component) from you?

 

[mac1911]

Do you need anything state side to get the 07?
Store front , business license , tax ID.
for $50 I might just get one and start poking around on making more stuff. Maybe in 10 years I can retire from regular work have a part time gig making gun stuff?

 

[parallax222]

Dude, it's f***ing $50 per year. If you're that cheap, I'm not buying anything from you. Even a spring. FFS. How good are your components going to be if you won't spring for $50/year? I spend >$30K per year on components and I won't buy from a company that doesn't have an FFL. There are too many non-shady places to buy from.
All else being equal (and as as a start-up, you'd be pretty damn far from equal) would you rather buy shit from a company with an FFL vs. one that couldn't get one? Are you in China?

Uhhh. i wasnt AWARE of this. Thats why im asking. f*** me for asking a gun community about information I don't know yet. Thats fine. Im a free market guy. Dont buy from me. If its 50$ a year and I dont need to have a separate business address, then ill LIKELY do this. Thats why Im asking FFS.

You've obviously made up your mind. So why are you even asking the question? Make your parts, take your chances, and any customer with a brain will avoid you, unless you're selling on price alone, which is usually a losing strategy. If what you're making isn't "special" in some way, shape, or form, why should someone buy a barrel (or any other critical component) from you?

I haven't actually, I'm asking. I have plenty of people asking me already and I'm lining up my ducks in a row before i start selling.

Even though you're asking to be inflammatory instead of HELP a young guy, they're fair questions so here's the reply:

They'll buy from me cause I have a novel idea, I'm ahead of the curve, nobody else is making it, and I'm a CNC machinist and im more than capable to make things to precise specs.

Nice job making the next generation of gun enthusiasts feel welcome and encouraged. Jeez guy.

 

[mac1911]

Uhhh. i wasnt AWARE of this. Thats why im asking. f*** me for asking a gun community about information I don't know yet. Thats fine. Im a free market guy. Dont buy from me. If its 50$ a year and I dont need to have a separate business address, then ill LIKELY do this. Thats why Im asking FFS.




I haven't actually, I'm asking. I have plenty of people asking me already and I'm lining up my ducks in a row before i start selling.

Even though you're asking to be inflammatory instead of HELP a young guy, they're fair questions so here's the reply:

They'll buy from me cause I have a novel idea, I'm ahead of the curve, nobody else is making it, and I'm a CNC machinist and im more than capable to make things to precise specs.

Nice job making the next generation of gun enthusiasts feel welcome and encouraged. Jeez guy.

Come on get thicker skin.
anyway if your idea is unique and novel I would suggest copy/patent/design rights as you go forward.
Love to see what you have to add to the gun world. There has not been to many design changes in the past 100+ years or so.

 

[parallax222]

Come on get thicker skin.
anyway if your idea is unique and novel I would suggest copy/patent/design rights as you go forward.
Love to see what you have to add to the gun world. There has not been to many design changes in the past 100+ years or so.

there are lots of new spins on old ideas with manufacturing evolving as it is.

 

[one-eyed Jack]

Uhhh. i wasnt AWARE of this. Thats why im asking. f*** me for asking a gun community about information I don't know yet. Thats fine. Im a free market guy. Dont buy from me. If its 50$ a year and I dont need to have a separate business address, then ill LIKELY do this. Thats why Im asking FFS.




I haven't actually, I'm asking. I have plenty of people asking me already and I'm lining up my ducks in a row before i start selling.

Even though you're asking to be inflammatory instead of HELP a young guy, they're fair questions so here's the reply:

They'll buy from me cause I have a novel idea, I'm ahead of the curve, nobody else is making it, and I'm a CNC machinist and im more than capable to make things to precise specs.

Nice job making the next generation of gun enthusiasts feel welcome and encouraged. Jeez guy.

Do you have your own equipped shop? Jack.

 

[parallax222]

Do you have your own equipped shop? Jack.

I do not at this point. Doing most of the work from my house.

 

[EddieCoyle]

Uhhh. i wasnt AWARE of this. Thats why im asking. f*** me for asking a gun community about information I don't know yet. Thats fine. Im a free market guy. Dont buy from me. If its 50$ a year and I dont need to have a separate business address, then ill LIKELY do this. Thats why Im asking FFS.




I haven't actually, I'm asking. I have plenty of people asking me already and I'm lining up my ducks in a row before i start selling.

Even though you're asking to be inflammatory instead of HELP a young guy, they're fair questions so here's the reply:

They'll buy from me cause I have a novel idea, I'm ahead of the curve, nobody else is making it, and I'm a CNC machinist and im more than capable to make things to precise specs.

Nice job making the next generation of gun enthusiasts feel welcome and encouraged. Jeez guy.

Easy Cupcake. If your home business is appropriately zoned for light manufacturing, go to your town hall and get a business license (If you don't already have one), go to IRS.gov and get an EIN, then fill out the Form 7 and apply for an 07 FFL. The whole thing will likely cost you less than $200. If your home is not appropriately zoned, PM me. I have a spot for you.

 

[parallax222]

Easy Cupcake. If your home business is appropriately zoned for light manufacturing, go to your town hall and get a business license (If you don't already have one), go to IRS.gov and get an EIN, then fill out the Form 7 and apply for an 07 FFL. The whole thing will likely cost you less than $200. If your home is not appropriately zoned, PM me. I have a spot for you.

Thank you. Sorry. I've had a rough week. Thanks for being willing to help.

 

[parallax222]

Easy Cupcake. If your home business is appropriately zoned for light manufacturing, go to your town hall and get a business license (If you don't already have one), go to IRS.gov and get an EIN, then fill out the Form 7 and apply for an 07 FFL. The whole thing will likely cost you less than $200. If your home is not appropriately zoned, PM me. I have a spot for you.

Im in nashua NH. Zoned for urban residences.

 

[EddieCoyle]

Im in nashua NH. Zoned for urban residences.

Check and see if they'll give you (or if you need) a business license for a small home-based business. I don't know how the rules work in Nashua.