Selling a handgun online in MA-many questions

[kingston73]

Like the title says, I have a handgun (38 revolver) that I bought in MA and now want to sell. I have an LTC-a, no FFL. I want to post it in the sales section here and I may also post it on gunbroker or similar site. My questions:
1) If a local person wanted to buy it face to face, what happens and what do I need to do?
2) If somebody buys it and needs it shipped in state, what happens and what do I do?
3) If somebody buys it and needs it shipped out of state, what happens and what do I do?

I searched and found bits and pieces of answers, but the MA regulations are confusing and I didn't really understand them.

 

[soam]

Like the title says, I have a handgun (38 revolver) that I bought in MA and now want to sell. I have an LTC-a, no FFL. I want to post it in the sales section here and I may also post it on gunbroker or similar site. My questions:
1) If a local person wanted to buy it face to face, what happens and what do I need to do?
2) If somebody buys it and needs it shipped in state, what happens and what do I do?
3) If somebody buys it and needs it shipped out of state, what happens and what do I do?

I searched and found bits and pieces of answers, but the MA regulations are confusing and I didn't really understand them.

1) You (the seller) fill out an FA-10 with yours and the buyer's information, you both sign it, and you send a copy to the Firearms Records Bureau. Note that they must be a MA resident with a LTC.
2 and 3) The buyer has to arrange for an FFL holder (dealer) to receive shipment of the gun and transfer it to them. This will cost some money ($25-$40 or so). Some FFLs will only accept shipments from other FFLs even though the law doesn't require it. I also believe that handguns have to be shipped via overnight shipping.

Gunbroker has some info here: http://www.gunbroker.com/Support/SupportFAQView.aspx?faqid=1118

 

[joehaus]

You can sell face to face on a FA-10 form as long as you are both properly licensed in this state. Out of state and shipping things requires a FFL.

 

[rlee]

1) You (the seller) fill out an FA-10 with yours and the buyer's information, you both sign it, and you send a copy to the Firearms Records Bureau. Note that they must be a MA resident with a LTC.
2 and 3) The buyer has to arrange for an FFL holder (dealer) to receive shipment of the gun and transfer it to them. This will cost some money ($25-$40 or so). Some FFLs will only accept shipments from other FFLs even though the law doesn't require it. I also believe that handguns have to be shipped via overnight shipping.
Gunbroker has some info here: http://www.gunbroker.com/Support/SupportFAQView.aspx?faqid=1118

1) The FA10 is for the transfer of the gun. You should also have a sales agreement signed by both parties, a copy for each. The process is: each checks the others LTC, both sign everything, buyer passes the money, seller passes the gun, both go home happy, seller files the FA10 within a week.

re 2 & 3) If the buyer backs out or is prohibited, you will have to pay the FFL's fee and pay for shipping the gun back to you. I don't have any experience with this, so there may be a perfectly safe way to handle it. There are lots of sales through Gunbroker, so there probably is.

All in all, FTF or meeting at a FFL is much better.

 

[kingston73]

Is there any paper work I'd need to fill out on my end before shipping? I've looked but couldn't find anything, where is the actual law or statute or whatever that states firearms shipping policies for MA?

 

[TNHunter]

It is Fed Law. You can only ship to an FFL or yourself. You cannot ship to a private party, other than yourself. Many FFL's will not accept direct shipments from private parties. It is their choice not to, if they do not want to.

 

[kingston73]

Right, I know it's federal law that a firearm cannot be shipped to a non-FFL. What I meant is where does it specifically say that I am allowed to box up and ship a firearm to an FFL? I read this thread:
http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...n-out-of-state.?highlight=online+handgun+sale
but still have questions. Is there no paperwork I need to fill as a seller? If the gun is going out of state do I need to fill out an FA10?

 

[M1911]

Right, I know it's federal law that a firearm cannot be shipped to a non-FFL. What I meant is where does it specifically say that I am allowed to box up and ship a firearm to an FFL? I read this thread:
http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...n-out-of-state.?highlight=online+handgun+sale
but still have questions. Is there no paperwork I need to fill as a seller? If the gun is going out of state do I need to fill out an FA10?

In general, laws don't say "you can do this." Laws say "if you do that, you go to jail for up to X years and $Y fine).

 

[Len-2A Training]

No FA-10s in this case. CJIS will have it registered to you forever. Swapping a Bill of Sale with signatures of both parties would be a good idea. Getting a receipt from the FFL you ship to would also be a good idea. Neither is required by law however.

 

[Jose]

You can ship or mail a long gun INTRAstate to the buyer without going through an FFL

You can ship (but not mail) a handgun INTRAstate to the buyer without going through an FFL.

Those are Federal rules. The FFL gets involved if one of these three conditions are met:

1) The firearm is being transferred in INTERstate commerce (going to a different state).

2) The firearm is a handgun AND it is being sent via the US Mail (regardless of where it is going).

3) State law requires that INTRAstate transfers be made through an FFL.

Don't make shit up if you don't know the law.

 

[ra5451]

Jose,

I've been reading this thread and I'm confused....



You said that...

You can ship (but not mail) a handgun INTRAstate to the buyer without going through an FFL....

If that is true then #3 doesn't make sense to me????? Our state requires us (I thought) to ship handguns, unless they're C/R, thru a FFL so how can you ship directly?

3) State law requires that INTRAstate transfers be made through an FFL.

 

[ScottS]

Jose,

I've been reading this thread and I'm confused....



You said that...

If that is true then #3 doesn't make sense to me????? Our state requires us (I thought) to ship handguns, unless they're C/R, thru a FFL so how can you ship directly?

Jose was right on the money. And I thought quite succinct, as well.

In regards #3, an FFL need be involved only if your state, whatever that may be, requires an FFL for INTRA-state transfers, as Kalifornia does. As Jose pointed out, anytime you use the words "Post Office" and "Handgun" together, Federal Regulations require an FFL at both ends. Federal law allows INTRA-state shipment of handguns (and long-guns) via contract carrier (FedEx and UPS) without involving an FFL. If MA requires an FFL to ship handguns INTRA-state via a non-USPS carrier, I've never seen reference to it, and would be interested in the cite.

 

[Jose]

Jose,

I've been reading this thread and I'm confused....



You said that...

If that is true then #3 doesn't make sense to me????? Our state requires us (I thought) to ship handguns, unless they're C/R, thru a FFL so how can you ship directly?

BATFE is only concerned with INTERSTATE transfers of firearms. That's why FEDERAL law does not require FFLs be used for transfers within a state.

However, STATE law MIGHT require the use of FFLs for transfering firearms within that state.

Your confusion confuses me.

ETA: I am not an expert on MA law, but I am pretty sure that the MGL does NOT require an FFL for transfers between licensed MA residents within the limit of four face to face transactions.

 

[mousegunfan]

I would just try to sell it face to face here on NES. You'll have to go green to post an add. Shipping and ffl's cost money, are a hassle and eat into any profits. You'll also pay an auction fee. If your willing to drive an hour and your buyer is also, you've got the state mostly covered for a face to face sale. Just be reasonable on your price and it will sell.

 

[kingston73]

mouse,
how do i "go green"? I originally thought to post it here but it wouldn't let me and I wasn't sure what I needed to do.

 

[rlee]

mouse,
how do i "go green"? I originally thought to post it here but it wouldn't let me and I wasn't sure what I needed to do.

Going green is a euphemism for becoming a paid member.
Click 'Forum' above, then open the Membership forum.
All will become clear.

 

[securityboy]

re 2 & 3) If the buyer backs out or is prohibited, you will have to pay the FFL's fee and pay for shipping the gun back to you. I don't have any experience with this, so there may be a perfectly safe way to handle it. There are lots of sales through Gunbroker, so there probably is.

Yeah there is an easy way to handle this, get paid up front...problem solved, buyer pays for gun its his, if he can't have it or no longer wants it that is his problem not yours. If you choose to give an inspection period, they need to get the gun back to you befor they get thier $$$ back...

All in all, FTF or meeting at a FFL is much better.

Everyone has thier preferences...personally I see FTF as a pain in the ass most of the time...Unless you live next door to me its a lot quicker/easier for me to drop a gun in a box and send it off to an FFL...

 

[Wendell]

Like the title says, I have a handgun (38 revolver) that I bought in MA and now want to sell. I have an LTC-a, no FFL. I want to post it in the sales section here and I may also post it on gunbroker or similar site. My questions:
1) If a local person wanted to buy it face to face, what happens and what do I need to do?

You need to be careful!

Halifax gun seller robbed by buyer
<http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/story/2011/05/11/ns-handgun-stolen.html>

Halifax gun seller robbed by buyer
CBC News
Posted: May 11, 2011 9:06 PM AT
Last Updated: May 11, 2011 10:03 PM AT

A handgun is in the hands of a criminal after a firearm sale in Halifax went bad Tuesday night.

Halifax Regional Police said a legal gun owner, who lives in Clayton Park, had advertised a gun for sale online. A young man claiming to be a buyer showed up at the door, with his own weapon: pepper spray.

The owner was blasted with the irritant, police said, and robbed of his handgun.

Mike MacLean, who has sold firearms legally, said selling a handgun through an online ad is dangerous.

"I'm glad he was only pepper sprayed, or whatever happened to him, that he wasn't shot," he said. "Here we've got another gun on the streets with a criminal."

The gun collector's wife, who did not want to be identified, said her husband is shaken up by the incident. She said that he has sold many items on Kijiji and never had problems.

As for the stolen gun, she said the ad had been on Bargain Hunter for a year, and there had been no problems.

It's not hard to find buyers and sellers of guns and rifles online at Bargain Hunter. There are dozens of ads in the legal trade of rifles and prohibited guns.

Police say to sell safely, owners should meet prospective buyers in a public place like a gun club, or have gun dealers make the sale. Sellers should never conduct business at their home.

"A gun can be used by a person that means harm, and so a person should be all that much more mindful to have things in place to protect themselves if they're going to be advertising to would-be perpetrators," gun shop owner Jim Hnatiuk said.

There have been 26 shootings in the Halifax area so far this year.


Copyright © CBC 2011
<http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/story/2011/05/11/ns-handgun-stolen.html>

Police recover stolen handgun

Sat, Sep 17 - 4:55 AM

Halifax Regional Police say a gun they recovered while questioning two men and two teenagers in July was stolen in a robbery in the city two months earlier.

On July 14, police spotted the four suspects acting suspiciously on Titus Street.

When they approached, they saw one person try to conceal a weapon that police describe as a modified long-barrelled firearm.

All four were arrested; the person with the unusual weapon was found to also have a handgun.

An investigation determined that the handgun had been taken from a man during a robbery May 10 on Carlina Court in Halifax.

A man who had advertised a gun for sale was meeting a potential buyer at his home when he was hit with pepper spray and the gun was stolen.

Police are still trying to identify the robbery suspect.


© 2011 The Halifax Herald Limited
<http://thechronicleherald.ca/Metro/1263622.html>

 

[drgrant]

You need to be careful!

Halifax gun seller robbed by buyer
<http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/story/2011/05/11/ns-handgun-stolen.html>

So you had to go to a canadian newspaper to find a story about someone who got robbed while selling a gun? Seriously?

-Mike

 

[KMaurer]

What makes the discussion more confusing is the title. You can't sell any physical product on-line; you can only advertise it and/or negotiate the terms of a sale. Whether you advertised the gun here or on some other forum, a sale is a sale is a sale. You can either do it face-to-face on an FA-10 if you're both licensed residents, or you can do the sale through a licensed dealer in the purchasers state of residence, either with both of you there in person or by shipping the gun to the dealer for the buyer to pick up. The internet doesn't add or take away anything to the requirements; it's just another sale.

Ken