Self Defense Insurance - How many have it?

USCCA. when i joined they were offering $29/month with spouse included. so $348/yr for 2 of us . base plan
 
Best bet is to practice judgment proofing. Place your primary asset, your home, in an irrevocable trust to protect it from lien/levy and seizure from judgment creditors. Do the same for large bank accounts. Collection lawyers are looking for an easy payday. Put up as many barriers as possible to prevent it.
 
Best bet is to practice judgment proofing. Place your primary asset, your home, in an irrevocable trust to protect it from lien/levy and seizure from judgment creditors. Do the same for large bank accounts. Collection lawyers are looking for an easy payday. Put up as many barriers as possible to prevent it.
Irrevocable means you lose control of it, and has some serious limitations.
 
Does a personal Liability floater cover this type of stuff?

A personal liability policy (homeowners & umbrella) excludes intentional acts however will generally cover civil liability in a reasonable use of force in a self defense situation. However, since you’ll be investigated and almost certainly be charged w a crime in even the most legit firearms related self defense event in MA, I wouldn’t count on the home/umbrella insurance carrier to provide coverage. And a personal liability policy does not provide coverage for the criminal legal defense.
 
A personal liability policy (homeowners & umbrella) excludes intentional acts however will generally cover civil liability in a reasonable use of force in a self defense situation. However, since you’ll be investigated and almost certainly be charged w a crime in even the most legit firearms related self defense event in MA, I wouldn’t count on the home/umbrella insurance carrier to provide coverage. And a personal liability policy does not provide coverage for the criminal legal defense.
My policy excludes intentional acts unless taken with the intent of protecting persons or property.
 
Does anyone know of a case when someone had to use self defense insurance?

Maybe someone in MA?

I am curious to know if they really work as they say, or if it becomes a pain in the a** to get anything out of them.
 
Ya I get that but OP just had his experience in a safety course. What’s with the sudden push.

The last rush for LTC’s and gun sales across the country since Feb when we thought zombies were coming. I’m totally guessing at a number, but let’s just say 500K new gun owners across the country in the last 5 months.

That’s a whole lot of money can be made by pressuring them into thinking they’re doing the only right thing by buying this INS immediately.

“In fact! It’s so important we brought in a GREAT guy (instructors BIL) from ‘XYZ Ins’ to talk to you about it right now.”

Nothing happens without money. And nothing happens where money can’t be made somehow in 10 different directions.
 
Does anyone know of a case when someone had to use self defense insurance?

Maybe someone in MA?

I am curious to know if they really work as they say, or if it becomes a pain in the a** to get anything out of them.
This is all that matters, cases of usage in Mass. Until that data is known there is no telling of what use this insurance might be.
 
This is all that matters, cases of usage in Mass. Until that data is known there is no telling of what use this insurance might be.

How would it be any different than any other insurance, where payout state doesn't matter? MA's stringent gun laws aside, this insurance works no differently than any other insurance except it is covering things like bail bond, attorney retainer, and ongoing legal expense (depending on package) instead of physical property. I prefer USCCA because they upfront this money instead of forcing you to out of pocket first, then reimburse.

To those unfamiliar: This is just expense coverage insurance. Not some magic that will get you a pass in MA's ridiculous laws. Your odds are the same as if you out of pocket your own attorney. The only thing they promise is coverage. USCCA goes $500k - $2M, depending on package. That's good enough for me.
 
How would it be any different than any other insurance, where payout state doesn't matter? MA's stringent gun laws aside, this insurance works no differently than any other insurance except it is covering things like bail bond, attorney retainer, and ongoing legal expense (depending on package) instead of physical property. I prefer USCCA because they upfront this money instead of forcing you to out of pocket first, then reimburse.

To those unfamiliar: This is just expense coverage insurance. Not some magic that will get you a pass in MA's ridiculous laws. Your odds are the same as if you out of pocket your own attorney. The only thing they promise is coverage. USCCA goes $500k - $2M, depending on package. That's good enough for me.

The insurance component of USCCA only covers your civil liability, i.e. when you get sued for damages by the perp's family, not the criminal charges from the State. It's fairly standard General Liability policy language and they do defend you since they don't want to pay out any more than they have to (the civil liability defense is separate from the Legal Retainer for the criminal charges). Kinda like when you get sued as the result of a car accident, your insurance company provides the legal defense to minimize their payout. For me, the Legal retainer for the criminal charges is more important than liability insurance piece of USCCA. If I'm in jail, getting sued for civil damages will be the least of my problem and there is also the possibility you could force your personal liability (homeowners & umbrella insurance) to respond although that'll probably take you suing them to do so. You are correct, your odds are the same if you pay out of pocked for your own criminal defense attorney - providing you can pay the couple hundred grand attorneys fees for a good criminal defense attorney.
 
The insurance component of USCCA only covers your civil liability, i.e. when you get sued for damages by the perp's family, not the criminal charges from the State. It's fairly standard General Liability policy language and they do defend you since they don't want to pay out any more than they have to (the civil liability defense is separate from the Legal Retainer for the criminal charges). Kinda like when you get sued as the result of a car accident, your insurance company provides the legal defense to minimize their payout. For me, the Legal retainer for the criminal charges is more important than liability insurance piece of USCCA. If I'm in jail, getting sued for civil damages will be the least of my problem and there is also the possibility you could force your personal liability (homeowners & umbrella insurance) to respond although that'll probably take you suing them to do so. You are correct, your odds are the same if you pay out of pocked for your own criminal defense attorney - providing you can pay the couple hundred grand attorneys fees for a good criminal defense attorney.

Not true. The vast majority is for civil coverage, but each plan includes a separate allocation for criminal defense. $100k - $250k, depending on package. It would be otherwise worthless to me without it.
 
How would it be any different than any other insurance, where payout state doesn't matter? MA's stringent gun laws aside, this insurance works no differently than any other insurance except it is covering things like bail bond, attorney retainer, and ongoing legal expense (depending on package) instead of physical property. I prefer USCCA because they upfront this money instead of forcing you to out of pocket first, then reimburse.

To those unfamiliar: This is just expense coverage insurance. Not some magic that will get you a pass in MA's ridiculous laws. Your odds are the same as if you out of pocket your own attorney. The only thing they promise is coverage. USCCA goes $500k - $2M, depending on package. That's good enough for me.
If you know of any place that actually offers "insuance" rather than a coverage plan, let me know.

These orgs are carefully structured to avoid becoming insurance companies, as that bears a very heavy regulatory burden separate for each of the 50 states, plus it places them under the regulatory umbrella of various states insurance commissions. If the org doesn't have an AM Best rating, it's probably not an insurance company.

There are often qualifying clauses like "will pay to fund your legal fees in a case of self defense" ... but what it the plan declares your case is not self defense? Or says it is not self defense until a court says it is?

If the company does not pay, you can fund a lawsuit to try to get money, while also managing your defense. If an insurance company does not pay a promised benefit, you can file a complaint with the state insurance commission and get some help (hopefully).

If I die, the benefit amount on my policy is about as good as cash; not something I hope to collect.
 
Not true. The vast majority is for civil coverage, but each plan includes a separate allocation for criminal defense. $100k - $250k, depending on package. It would be otherwise worthless to me without it.

What I said was true, I didn't state the difference in amounts between the Liability insurance coverage or the Legal Retainer, I just said the legal retainer was important to me. But yes, the liability insurance portion is much larger than the legal retainer.
 
If you know of any place that actually offers "insuance" rather than a coverage plan, let me know.

These orgs are carefully structured to avoid becoming insurance companies, as that bears a very heavy regulatory burden separate for each of the 50 states, plus it places them under the regulatory umbrella of various states insurance commissions. If the org doesn't have an AM Best rating, it's probably not an insurance company.

There are often qualifying clauses like "will pay to fund your legal fees in a case of self defense" ... but what it the plan declares your case is not self defense? Or says it is not self defense until a court says it is?

If the company does not pay, you can fund a lawsuit to try to get money, while also managing your defense. If an insurance company does not pay a promised benefit, you can file a complaint with the state insurance commission and get some help (hopefully).

If I die, the benefit amount on my policy is about as good as cash; not something I hope to collect.

USCCA offers both, their civil liability protection plan <edit> insurance is on a General Liability Form (I had a copy of it somewhere but can't seem to locate it now, if I find it I'll post it). They also include a legal retainer which is separate (assuming that's what you mean by "coverage plan"?)

Have been hearing radio ads for www.xinsurance.com specifically mentioning firearms insurance. Just looked on their website and it's a little vague, but I didn't get into any depth in it either.
 
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USCCA offers both, their civil liability insurance is on a General Liability Form (I had a copy of it somewhere but can't seem to locate it now, if I find it I'll post it). They also include a legal retainer which is separate (assuming that's what you mean by "coverage plan"?)
It is possible the general liability meets the legal definition of insurance but the coverage plan does not. Does the legal retainer agreement mention the word "insurance" or "insured" anywhere?
 
What I said was true, I didn't state the difference in amounts between the Liability insurance coverage or the Legal Retainer, I just said the legal retainer was important to me. But yes, the liability insurance portion is much larger than the legal retainer.
Not sure I follow. I thought you were claiming there is no criminal defense coverage. I was just saying there is, explicitly stated separately from their civil coverage.
 
It is possible the general liability meets the legal definition of insurance but the coverage plan does not. Does the legal retainer agreement mention the word "insurance" or "insured" anywhere?

Nope, you're right, I checked, I was mistaken. I could have sworn at some point I saw a G/L form but then again, I see those all day every day. It is not an insurance product, it's a coverage plan:

"Basis For and Interpretation Of Self-Defense SHIELD Protection Plan Benefits All Self-Defense SHIELD protection plan benefits are subject to the terms, conditions and exclusions of the actual Self-Defense SHIELD Protection Plan Terms and Conditions set forth on Exhibit B. Primary Member (and Secondary Member, if applicable) acknowledges that Self-Defense SHIELD is not an insurance product. The Plan Terms and Conditions may be changed at any time in the absolute discretion of USCCA, and USCCA’s only obligation is to provide the Primary Member, only, with notice of any such changes."
 
Not sure I follow. I thought you were claiming there is no criminal defense coverage. I was just saying there is, explicitly stated separately from their civil coverage.

We are in agreement. Lost in translation via NES posting I guess. And I agree w/ your reply to USER556
 
It is possible the general liability meets the legal definition of insurance but the coverage plan does not. Does the legal retainer agreement mention the word "insurance" or "insured" anywhere?

I just submitted for a quote from XInsurance, did it as an insurance producer w/ the quote for myself. The language on their site referenced "Insurance Contract" and "Insurance Product" so we'll see what they come back with. Will post the results.
 
Nope, you're right, I checked, I was mistaken. I could have sworn at some point I saw a G/L form but then again, I see those all day every day. It is not an insurance product, it's a coverage plan:

"Basis For and Interpretation Of Self-Defense SHIELD Protection Plan Benefits All Self-Defense SHIELD protection plan benefits are subject to the terms, conditions and exclusions of the actual Self-Defense SHIELD Protection Plan Terms and Conditions set forth on Exhibit B. Primary Member (and Secondary Member, if applicable) acknowledges that Self-Defense SHIELD is not an insurance product. The Plan Terms and Conditions may be changed at any time in the absolute discretion of USCCA, and USCCA’s only obligation is to provide the Primary Member, only, with notice of any such changes."
I told you it wasn't insurance. Insurance would be subject to regulations regarding things like unilateral mid-contract benefit changes.
 
So I heard back from XInsurance, they offer an liability insurance policy (waiting on the coverage form details) w/ a minimum premium for a personal use liability policy w/ $100,000 Per Person $250,000 Per Accident $500,000 Aggregate limits that starts at $900 - $1,700 per year w/ a $2,500 Self Insured Retention,. Rate depends on Underwriting such as experience/credentials, profession, how often you carry, previous coverage, previous incidents, etc. This is not a legal retainer protection plan. They also sell commercial policies.
 
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