Selecting a 6.5 creedmoor platform

[*chris*]

A buddy of mine owns a ranch in South Texas and we hunt deer and hogs from various blinds on the property. Since we feed, all shots are less than 300 yards. Right now I am using a 308, which is total overkill for the white tail.

I want to treat myself to a new rifle and was thinking about trying a 6.5 creedmoor rifle. Most of the time I will be plinking on the 200/300 yard range at Harvard so accuracy is important to me. I used to have a Rem 700 in 308 in a bell and carlson stock which I really liked shooting. Now I have an M&P 10 and it just isn't as accurate as I would like.

At first, I was interested in the Ruger Precision rifle, but it is a little too "tactical" for me even in the camo dress.
My second thought was a Remington 700 in 6.5 creedmoor. They make a heavy barrel 700 with a 1:8 twist and 24" threaded barrel. I am thinking that in a Boyds stock with an upgraded trigger sill still be less than the Ruger precision rifle and similar or better accuracy?
Are there any other rifles I should consider? I would like to stay under $1500 and under $1000 ideally for the rifle. I already have the rings and glass.

Thanks,
Chris

 

[Dradian]

A lot of this was covered in the long range rifle thread. I'll give the same advice I put in there, but there are ALOT of good choices in the price range.

My suggestion is Bergara or Tikka.

I'm sure others will chime in with more.

 

[92G]

i've been down this road quite a few times. here's a cool build that i have in 308 and LOVE it.

Howa 1500
can get a barreled action and drop it into a chassis like the XLR (which is what i'm using) or a KRG bravo.
right now XLR is running 10% off everything through 1/27, code "SHOT"

My build specs: Howa 1500 308, 24" barrel, XLR element chassis, XLR tactical lite stock, Ergo deluxe grip, VG6 muzzle brake, XLR monopod adapter, XLR M-lok bipod adapter, Harris BRMS with loc pod (not pictured), Warne 20mm steel rail, Warne steel rings, SWFA SS 10x42 with sunshade. Entire build including optic and accessories was around $1400 granted I got some black friday discounts.



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if i were starting from scratch I would get a Howa 1500 in 6.5 already in the KRG Bravo from the factory:

Howa product # HKRB72501
Howa HKRB72501 Bravo Rifle Bolt 24" 10+1 KRG Bravo/Aluminum Chassis Black

this model gets you completely into the game for $1k. KRG chassis, AICS mags, Howa action and barrel, threaded muzzle. only problem is that model is hard to find because everyone wants it. personally I would call Legacy Sports and ask them where they are shipping to or how to get one. they offer it in black and FDE, 24 or 26" barrels.

I've owned Bergara LRP elite, Savage short actions, R700, ruger precision. have shot Tikkas but not owned. the Howa 1500 owns all of them. it needs zero trigger or action work. damn perfect. no i don't work for Howa just dig their product that is underappreciated due to it being completely unmarketed by the importer Legacy Sports.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YodSm5-CcQ

 

[*chris*]

Squib, I just read the long range rifle thread and there is a lot to like about the Howa. I really like the idea of a detachable magazine although with deer hunting it is one and done for the day...

The Bergara looks nice, but it is 50% more than the Howa. How about the regular HMR?

Chris

 

[92G]

Squib, I just read the long range rifle thread and there is a lot to like about the Howa. I really like the idea of a detachable magazine although with deer hunting it is one and done for the day...

The Bergara looks nice, but it is 50% more than the Howa. How about the regular HMR?

Chris

if you're doing any precision work along with hunting you'll want the detachable mag. the reason is because it will allow you to run a one piece rail. i actually dig the fixed magazine rifles but they require having two pieces for scope attachment which sucks compared to having a solid 20 MOA rail. if you run a one piece rail with the internal (nondetachable) mag, the fingers get rocked loading/unloading. by having the magazine it fixes that issue. the AICS magazine system is perfect you can run a 3, 5 or 10 round mag including the magpuls. there are even magazine plugs that make it straight single loading although those are unnecessary IMO.

Bergara HMR also very nice. you would be pleased with it. my Bergara LRP elite is in 308. it is also a sub MOA rifle although more ammo picky compared to the Howa. granted these are 308 barrels so i don't think one can extrapolate my results over to a 6.5. Howa trigger is a two stage as opposed to the single stage bergara. i prefer the Howa. if you like a little take up before reaching the break, the Howa is perfect. if you don't want any pre-travel just straight on the break, then the bergara is GTG. the bergara HMR is easy to find and you'd have no trouble selling it if not enjoying. however my preference remains the Howa.

my LRP elite absolutely crushes it with the 168gr A-max bullets but otherwise struggles to stay under 1 MOA. on the contrary the Howa puts most anything right around 1 MOA. if you handload you'll get either rifle down under 1 MOA for sure.

Bergara LRP elite 308 at 100 yards, 4 round group


grabagun has the B14 in 6.5 CM for $875 on their graba-quote which is retarded:
B-14 HMR 6.5 Creedmoor 22 4 Round Brown Bergara Rifles B14S352

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other folks on this forum have experience with the tikka so would solicit those opinions too. the tikka's i've shot are smooth and excellent barrels but the ejection has always seemed weak to me.

 

[*chris*]

I prefer two stage triggers in my rifles.

I reload, so I am not worried about factory ammo.

You think that Bergara for $875 vs $1010 for the Howa is a better deal?

It is only a $135 difference.

 

[RedWing]

FYI. There is a post on reddit gundeals for the HMR for 799 now. Its very tempting.

 

[92G]

I prefer two stage triggers in my rifles.

I reload, so I am not worried about factory ammo.

You think that Bergara for $875 vs $1010 for the Howa is a better deal?

It is only a $135 difference.

wow I thought i was the only creep who liked 2 stage triggers. good to know there are others out there. if you like a two stage then you might end up wanting to swap out the bergara trigger which will then negate the price difference. Cabelas has the bergaras in stock if you want to handle one. if you like a two stage the Howa will float your boat.

i wasn't able to find that howa model in the KRG chassis so I ended up just buying a Howa 1500 in a hogue stock then purchasing an XLR element chassis. that route ends up still being a good value. looking around online the Howa's in 6.5 CM look a little scarce.

 

[Mountain]

If you are anti-tactical, you're not going to like my answer until you get a group of hogs at your feeding station: Build an AR-308 in .65 Creedmoor. Might be challenging if you are in Mass- not sure of your location. With a decent barrel and trigger you'll get sub-MOA, but most importantly you'll hit more hogs before they haul ass. It's amazing how quick those things are when scared. VG6 Gamma comp will keep your aim on target.

 

[Woodstock]

I believe the Weatherby Vanguard is the same rifle as the Howa. The Weatherby stock leaves something to be desired, but if the plan is to set it in an aftermarket chassis, the Vanquard might be easier to find than the Howa.

 

[JRT]

If you are anti-tactical, you're not going to like my answer until you get a group of hogs at your feeding station: Build an AR-308 in .65 Creedmoor. Might be challenging if you are in Mass- not sure of your location. With a decent barrel and trigger you'll get sub-MOA, but most importantly you'll hit more hogs before they haul ass. It's amazing how quick those things are when scared. VG6 Gamma comp will keep your aim on target.

Franz wants a word with you.


View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7ob0fgc0I7A

 

[*chris*]

So I have a built M&P 10. Should I consider just buying an upper for that? I always thought that bolt guns are much more accurate than semi-auto. Does the 308 BCG work with 65 creedmoor?

If you are anti-tactical, you're not going to like my answer until you get a group of hogs at your feeding station: Build an AR-308 in .65 Creedmoor. Might be challenging if you are in Mass- not sure of your location. With a decent barrel and trigger you'll get sub-MOA, but most importantly you'll hit more hogs before they haul ass. It's amazing how quick those things are when scared. VG6 Gamma comp will keep your aim on target.

 

[*chris*]

Forgot to add, only taking one boar, the cost of shipping my venison back almost stopped my heart!

 

[Mountain]

Franz wants a word with you.


View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7ob0fgc0I7A

Yeah, but how many did he miss?

I bet most folks can't quite hang with Franz and would be more like the schmoes in the helicopter:

 

[JRT]

So I have a built M&P 10. Should I consider just buying an upper for that? I always thought that bolt guns are much more accurate than semi-auto. Does the 308 BCG work with 65 creedmoor?

You can use a 308 BCG, you will probably need an upper with an adjustable gas block.

 

[Mountain]

So I have a built M&P 10. Should I consider just buying an upper for that? I always thought that bolt guns are much more accurate than semi-auto. Does the 308 BCG work with 65 creedmoor?

Actually you are halfway there if you already built a lower. You'll need a good trigger in it- Geissele or the like.

Generally bolt guns are more accurate but with a decent barrel you can get below 1 MOA, which is all you need for hogs. I have a 20" Ballistic Advantage Premium Series stainless barrel for my self built 6.5 CM AR. I am using a JP bolt carrier group, with their high pressure bolt in case I want to load a little hot. Also using a JP free float tube. With hand loads it's a consistent ~.6 to .7 MOA shooter.

My first hand loads made for this rifle shot like this at 100 yards:

Reloading 6.5 Creedmoor for Gas Guns

I've improved a little since then. Also the group in the center was with the Magnetospeed chronometer mounted- it opens up the groups a little.

Edit- Yes, 308 BCG is what you need. Also runs fine with a standard 308 gas block.

 

[Fritz the Cat]

I have a friend who has the Savage Predator Max in 6.5 Creedmoor. He is getting amazingly tiny 5 shot groups with his hand loads at 200 yards, 1" usually and sometimes smaller. I would not rule out a Savage.

 

[92G]

So I have a built M&P 10. Should I consider just buying an upper for that? I always thought that bolt guns are much more accurate than semi-auto. Does the 308 BCG work with 65 creedmoor?

can if you want to, but personally i wouldn't bother. as you know the benefit of necking down to 6.5 CM is to get the sectional density that makes the projectile more efficient out past ~600 yards. inside 500 yards what does 6.5CM offer over a 308? nothing. on a very windy day it may help a bit. inside 600 yards I really see no purpose for the 6.5 over a 308, which is why I don't bother going into 6.5 territory. now when going 800+ yard distances the 6.5CM absolutely dominates.

so I ask myself: do I want a rifle that excels at 600+ yard distance and rate of fire? I see those as contradictory. I may want higher volume of fire inside let's say 200 yards but if i'm pushing far out there then I want the external ballistics of the 6.5, not a semi auto. Overall a well tuned LR-308/AR-10 is a thing of beauty and best served by the 308. They are finicky rifles so if cycling reliably and accurate then it's a gem.

lastly, for precision work I want the heaviest barrel possible. on a bolt gun I can have that heavy ass barrel and still keep the weight manageable. on an autoloader I'm dumping weight into buffers, springs, gas tubes, gas blocks, handguards, cantilever'ed scope mounts, etc. So to keep the weight down on a semi auto we end up going with thinner profile barrels that detract from the purpose. they'll work fine for 5 rounds but when the barrel starts generating heat it needs a place to dissipate.

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side story:

about a year ago we were setup at the 300 yard position and I got to shoot this dude's Desert Tech SRS in 6.5CM. gorgeous bullpup bolt action. stupid accurate. way outside my budget. so to return the favor I had him shoot one of my 308's (I can't even recall which, maybe LR-308). when the 140 gr 6.5 CM projectile hit the steel it made a loud ping sound. however the 168gr 308 made a much louder thud and put that steel into motion. the owner of the SRS was surprised the 308 was "so powerful". he thought i had some hot rod ammo. funny thing he had never owned a 308. he went straight to 6.5 because its the cool thing to do.

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the 6.5 is a tremendous cartridge but it's not a new idea. the old 6.5x55 swedish is adored by the mil surp snobs for the same reasons people dig 6.5 CM today. at 300 yards even the 308 is boring. i actually find myself shooting a fair bit of 7.62x39 because, on a windy day, it at least provides some challenge!

I picked up one of these ruger american 7.62x39 and the stupid thing comes with me on EVERY range trip. phenomenal.

Ruger® Ruger American Rifle® Ranch Bolt-Action Rifle Model 16976

 

[76Too]

Go big or go home

 

[rocket500]

If you’re only shooting out to 300 yards why bother with a rifle built to go 1000? A predator type rifle will generally have a heavy barrel but not be a total tank.

I have a Savage 110 BA Stealth and honestly the thing is overkill for any range I am able to access. I have a Bergara B14 hunter which will print the same sub 1 MOA groups at 100 or 200 yards. It weighs about half. I couldn’t imagine trying to hunt anything with that Stealth.

 

[*chris*]

Squib, totally makes sense, plus to get an upper configured it is almost as expensive as the Bergara or Howa.

Let's not kid ourselves there is what we "need" and what we "want" for the hobby. I used to get giddy making dime size groups with my rem 700 308 on the MRA 200 yard range. Of course I could have done that with .223 as well, but the bolt action made it easier.

I am really leaning towards the Howa in the BRG chassis at this point.

Chris

 

[slap shot]

A lot of this was covered in the long range rifle thread. I'll give the same advice I put in there, but there are ALOT of good choices in the price range.

My suggestion is Bergara or Tikka.

I'm sure others will chime in with more.

this sums up what the prevailing feeling is on the 6.5 CM facebook group i'm in. I have a Savage Axis 2 XP that was well well under your budget and although i really haven't grouped it yet beyond 100,(just about 1") seems to very accurate. I've been shooting it at 300 yards and no issue knocking soda cans off a platform. The scope that came on it is decent for a 3-9x but it's definitely more of a hunting rifle than a bench target rifle. Trigger is very good, stock is wood. I like it.

 

[Mountain]

Squib, totally makes sense, plus to get an upper configured it is almost as expensive as the Bergara or Howa.

Let's not kid ourselves there is what we "need" and what we "want" for the hobby. I used to get giddy making dime size groups with my rem 700 308 on the MRA 200 yard range. Of course I could have done that with .223 as well, but the bolt action made it easier.

I am really leaning towards the Howa in the BRG chassis at this point.

Chris

I'm tempted to get the Howa someday- that or a Bergara.

To build a sub-MOA .308 / 6.5 CM upper will set you back ~$1K. You could spend almost $2K to buy one that is GTG. I disagree that they are finicky, Squib308. Like any AR, just don't go cheap on the BCG and barrel and use an upper receiver from a reputable maker.

 

[fshalor]

I'm doing the caliber dance right now too. Fortunately I have an issue which is holding my checkbook in hostage . I'm trying to decide LH or RH, so I've taken a bunch of trips to Cabela's to fondle things.

Bone stock, the savage, Ruger and T3 Tikkas feel "right" so I will probably go with one of those some time this year.

To save a bunch of money from having to do it twice, I'm planning on spending a bunch of time with a scope on an AR-15 and document LH vs RH performance and my comfort.

I'm left eye dominant, with a really weak right eye. But right handed.

My original requirement for a high powered rifle was iron sites and second the ability to change barrels without a smith.

Ruger uses a system a lot like Tikkas, so they came back on the table with the American line. (Which for the money looks really good and gives me more room for glass.)

I'm tending toward a Tikka t3 in .308, but would settle for a 6.5 new Savage or Ruger.

The long bolt savages feel the best to me, though I don't have enough fondle time on a Tikka.

 

[*chris*]

My suggestion is Bergara or Tikka.

I'm sure others will chime in with more.

How about a Tikka in a boyd's At-One chassis? I am left handed but have been shooting right handed guns my whole life. I need an adjustable comb.

Am I right that it would also be around $1000, or would I need to upgrade the trigger on the Tikka? Sounds like the Howa trigger is good to go out of the package.

Chris

 

[Dradian]

How about a Tikka in a boyd's At-One chassis? I am left handed but have been shooting right handed guns my whole life. I need an adjustable comb.

Am I right that it would also be around $1000, or would I need to upgrade the trigger on the Tikka? Sounds like the Howa trigger is good to go out of the package.

Chris

I find the Tikka trigger fine out of the box. The Boyd's chassis would work great for your needs. Of course one of the nice things about the Bergara is a great trigger and an adjustable riser when you get the HMR (and higher models), from the factory.

Can't go wrong with either, imho.

 

[92G]

I'm tempted to get the Howa someday- that or a Bergara.

To build a sub-MOA .308 / 6.5 CM upper will set you back ~$1K. You could spend almost $2K to buy one that is GTG. I disagree that they are finicky, Squib308. Like any AR, just don't go cheap on the BCG and barrel and use an upper receiver from a reputable maker.

agree budget BCG/barrel are no go. i cannot speak to 6.5 CM uppers. my post refers to 308 uppers that are notoriously finicky due to variability in gas. if the manufacturer does their homework and gets the gas port size just right then it will probably run OK. however an adjustable gas block like the SLR sentry has been my go-to solution on 308 uppers. i don't like the idea of having an adjustable gas block as it's theoretically another failure point although it completely solves most cycling issues, minimizes wear on the upper, keeps brass happy and minimize recoil.

 

[dr.sleep]

Been very happy with my tikka CTR in 6.5 creedmoor for paper/steel. Lots of info on Snipers Hide.

 

[wahsben]

There have been a lot of good rifles mentioned here. I don't know how easily or how much modification you can do on all of them. I do know that on the Savages the barrels can be changed quite easily. In regards to the RPR it's good out of the box and if you want you can make basically just about any modification you choose to. The barrel, the grip, the stock, the trigger, the handguard etc. It also comes with a 20 MOA rail.

https://rifleshooter.com/2018/09/ruger-precision-rifle-rpr-review-geniii-6-5-creedmoor/

 

[MAGA99]

After lecturing my wife on her spending habits, I come here and read this......