Seattle gun tax failure ? Firearm sales plummet, violence spikes after law passes

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When the City of Seattle passed a tax on all sales of guns and ammunition, the measure was hailed as a way to defray the rising costs of gun violence.

But since the tax took effect, those costs have only risen as gun violence in the city has surged. And the tax has apparently brought in much less than city leaders projected it would.
“How much data do you need?” asked Dave Workman, senior editor of TheGunMag.com and member of the Second Amendment Foundation. “The data says the law has failed to prevent what they promised it would prevent.

.....

Seattle City Councilman Tim Burgess introduced the tax in 2015. It puts a $25 tax on every firearm sold in the city and up to 5 cents per round of ammunition. The measure easily passed and took effect January 1, 2016. Comparing the first five months of 2017 with the same period before the gun tax went into effect, reports of shots fired are up 13 percent, the number of people injured in shootings climbed 37 percent and gun deaths doubled, according to crime statistics from the Seattle Police Department.

Councilman Burgess never returned calls and emails for comment. Dana Robinson Slote, director of communication for Seattle City Council, said she was “politely declining your invitation for an interview.”
In selling his gun tax to the public, Burgess predicted it would generate between $300,000 and $500,000 annually. The money would be used to study the root causes of gun violence in hopes of reducing the costs to taxpayers.
.........

Read full story : http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...plummet-violence-spikes-after-law-passes.html
 
When the City of Seattle passed a tax on all sales of guns and ammunition, the measure was hailed as a way to defray the rising costs of gun violence.

But since the tax took effect, those costs have only risen as gun violence in the city has surged. And the tax has apparently brought in much less than city leaders projected it would.
“How much data do you need?” asked Dave Workman, senior editor of TheGunMag.com and member of the Second Amendment Foundation. “The data says the law has failed to prevent what they promised it would prevent.

.....

Seattle City Councilman Tim Burgess introduced the tax in 2015. It puts a $25 tax on every firearm sold in the city and up to 5 cents per round of ammunition. The measure easily passed and took effect January 1, 2016. Comparing the first five months of 2017 with the same period before the gun tax went into effect, reports of shots fired are up 13 percent, the number of people injured in shootings climbed 37 percent and gun deaths doubled, according to crime statistics from the Seattle Police Department.

Councilman Burgess never returned calls and emails for comment. Dana Robinson Slote, director of communication for Seattle City Council, said she was “politely declining your invitation for an interview.”
In selling his gun tax to the public, Burgess predicted it would generate between $300,000 and $500,000 annually. The money would be used to study the root causes of gun violence in hopes of reducing the costs to taxpayers.
.........

Read full story : http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...plummet-violence-spikes-after-law-passes.html


Why the **** do we need to study the root cause of "gun violence?" We already know what it is: scumbags shooting at each other, violent liberals shooting at their political rivals, mental health cases where people snap and kill their spouse/kids/themselves, and the occasional snackbar.

Next on the list of stupidity: adding additional taxes to something in a localized area will obviously make people travel outside that area to purchase those products for a cheaper price. It can't be much more in gas to drive outside the city limits to buy that new gun you want. And certainly cheaper when stocking up on ammo to buy it online, or once again, drive out to that gun store/walmart outside the city.

The scumbags don't buy their guns legally anyhow.
 
The problem is these ******* respond to that with, "it doesn't work because the surrounding towns/states/countries don't have strong enough laws. Once everyone has 'common sense laws' the planets will align, the lion will lay down with the lamb and the Browns will win the Super Bowl."

No one else can get away with such patent bullshit. It's infuriating
 
Decrease in shootings and deaths = Guns are bad.

Increase in shootings and deaths = Far too soon to form a correlation. This is a very complex subject.
 
Why the **** do we need to study the root cause of "gun violence?" We already know what it is: scumbags shooting at each other, violent liberals shooting at their political rivals, mental health cases where people snap and kill their spouse/kids/themselves, and the occasional snackbar.

Next on the list of stupidity: adding additional taxes to something in a localized area will obviously make people travel outside that area to purchase those products for a cheaper price. It can't be much more in gas to drive outside the city limits to buy that new gun you want. And certainly cheaper when stocking up on ammo to buy it online, or once again, drive out to that gun store/walmart outside the city.

The scumbags don't buy their guns legally anyhow.

I agree but it's simpler than this, shootings and violence in inner cities is simply a socioeconomic problem. It's what happens when humans living in close proximity to each other have to compete for limited resources. It devolves into animalistic human behavior, i.e. physical battles for space and resources. Here's a simple thought experiment (and I am not personally advocating for this, just using this to prove my point,) what if you gave all of these "scumbags" doing all the (gun) violence a universal basic income. I bet you crime in these areas would drop drastically. I could be wrong, but my theory is that a large majority of these people if given some of the basics, no longer forced to compete with each other just to survive would no longer risk their lives, or their Free $$$$, or their freedom, by committing crimes. I think it's sad that these marginalized communities exist, but to call firearm / gun crime a public health crisis is clever but absolutely inane.

The lack of mental health services across the US is a public health crisis. The demoncrats depend on this vicious cycle status quo to further their agendas. All I'm trying to do here is figure out a way to disrupt / disturb their agenda. Ironically, it can't be done without giving the FSA what they want, more Free $$$$, which then encourages more people to join the FSA. This is a problem way bigger, it's a "human species" problem. As long as resources are limited, and there are no limits on procreation, a marginalized class will always exist.
 
I agree but it's simpler than this, shootings and violence in inner cities is simply a socioeconomic problem. It's what happens when humans living in close proximity to each other have to compete for limited resources. It devolves into animalistic human behavior, i.e. physical battles for space and resources. Here's a simple thought experiment (and I am not personally advocating for this, just using this to prove my point,) what if you gave all of these "scumbags" doing all the (gun) violence a universal basic income. I bet you crime in these areas would drop drastically. I could be wrong, but my theory is that a large majority of these people if given some of the basics, no longer forced to compete with each other just to survive would no longer risk their lives, or their Free $$$$, or their freedom, by committing crimes. I think it's sad that these marginalized communities exist, but to call firearm / gun crime a public health crisis is clever but absolutely inane.

The lack of mental health services across the US is a public health crisis. The demoncrats depend on this vicious cycle status quo to further their agendas. All I'm trying to do here is figure out a way to disrupt / disturb their agenda. Ironically, it can't be done without giving the FSA what they want, more Free $$$$, which then encourages more people to join the FSA. This is a problem way bigger, it's a "human species" problem. As long as resources are limited, and there are no limits on procreation, a marginalized class will always exist.

Most of them already have a "basic universal income", at least they certainly do in MA. It's never enough....
 
The Seattle gun tax is going to have nothing to do with gun violence being up or down, like anyone with 1/4 brain, people are just going to drive out of the city to buy guns and ammo and bring them back- this is something that gets repeatedly tested. As a few examples: If you live in mid/north MA you drive to NH to make your purchases, the size of those purchases determines how far you drive to NH to avoid the sales tax, If you live in NYC(?) you drive out of state to purchase your extra taxed carbonated beverages and bring them back in larger quantity less often. If anything, the numbers should be proving that there is no causal link, not that there is a link and it's the inverse of what the gun grabbers want.

I'll bet a box of 9mm that gun and ammo sales are up outside Seattle city limits.
 
Another reason my brother and SIL are moving to the east coast, NC VA area, from Seattle.
 
I think the tax is really ****ing stupid but pro RKBA people look like retards if they infer some sort of closely held correlation between these two things- particularly in a situation where you can just drive out of town and avoid the tax.

Not that I agree with this stupid ****ing tax, but also lets think critically.. is $25 really going to stop most people from buying a gun for self defense? I doubt it.. that's like a couple boxes of ammo.

One thing that people could argue though is that this tax is a sort of punishment against low income people or poor minorities wanting to
protect themselves; since the folks in that demographic would be hit much harder by such a tax. If pro RKBA people want to harp on something they might suggest this little factoid instead of trying to form some correlation between local gun sales and violent crime rates.

-Mike
 
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I agree but it's simpler than this, shootings and violence in inner cities is simply a socioeconomic problem. It's what happens when humans living in close proximity to each other have to compete for limited resources. It devolves into animalistic human behavior, i.e. physical battles for space and resources. Here's a simple thought experiment (and I am not personally advocating for this, just using this to prove my point,) what if you gave all of these "scumbags" doing all the (gun) violence a universal basic income. I bet you crime in these areas would drop drastically. I could be wrong, but my theory is that a large majority of these people if given some of the basics, no longer forced to compete with each other just to survive would no longer risk their lives, or their Free $$$$, or their freedom, by committing crimes. I think it's sad that these marginalized communities exist, but to call firearm / gun crime a public health crisis is clever but absolutely inane.

The lack of mental health services across the US is a public health crisis. The demoncrats depend on this vicious cycle status quo to further their agendas. All I'm trying to do here is figure out a way to disrupt / disturb their agenda. Ironically, it can't be done without giving the FSA what they want, more Free $$$$, which then encourages more people to join the FSA. This is a problem way bigger, it's a "human species" problem. As long as resources are limited, and there are no limits on procreation, a marginalized class will always exist.


They've been doing this since the 60's. I think they call it many things... Welfare, EBT, SNAP, Section 8... I think since the gov't started fighting the "war" on poverty and drugs, the problem has only gotten worse, throw in a new UBI, shit won't change, they'll all just have nicer wheels and bigger TV's.
 
I agree but it's simpler than this, shootings and violence in inner cities is simply a socioeconomic problem. It's what happens when humans living in close proximity to each other have to compete for limited resources. It devolves into animalistic human behavior, i.e. physical battles for space and resources. Here's a simple thought experiment (and I am not personally advocating for this, just using this to prove my point,) what if you gave all of these "scumbags" doing all the (gun) violence a universal basic income. I bet you crime in these areas would drop drastically. I could be wrong, but my theory is that a large majority of these people if given some of the basics, no longer forced to compete with each other just to survive would no longer risk their lives, or their Free $$$$, or their freedom, by committing crimes. I think it's sad that these marginalized communities exist, but to call firearm / gun crime a public health crisis is clever but absolutely inane.

These guys shooting at each other aren't usually mad max types, they're not fighting over scraps of food in the trash and getting into gunfights over
it. They can survive just fine, but just loafing around in a section 8 apartment isn't enough. They're fighting because they'r either competing for turf with drug sales or they're part of a gang or other organized criminal front, simply because they fell into a trap and never learned skills and got a normal job. Or quite simply because they're bored. If you grow up in an inner city area and have a shitty family and home life, a gunfight because some guy "dissed you" last week probably seems like a form of entertainment at that point. "The action is the juice."

UBI isn't going to stop any of that stuff. UBI will not make a real family replace a violent gang, etc.

The lack of mental health services across the US is a public health crisis. The demoncrats depend on this vicious cycle status quo to further their agendas. All I'm trying to do here is figure out a way to disrupt / disturb their agenda. Ironically, it can't be done without giving the FSA what they want, more Free $$$$, which then encourages more people to join the FSA. This is a problem way bigger, it's a "human species" problem. As long as resources are limited, and there are no limits on procreation, a marginalized class will always exist.[

I don't see what providing mental health services has to do with free shit handouts though.

-Mike
 
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They've been doing this since the 60's. I think they call it many things... Welfare, EBT, SNAP, Section 8... I think since the gov't started fighting the "war" on poverty and drugs, the problem has only gotten worse, throw in a new UBI, shit won't change, they'll all just have nicer wheels and bigger TV's.

Basically the government keeps going around telling minorities that "they're oppressed, were denied opportunities and need help" so when they say that like 9000 times, it eventually becomes its own self fulfilling prophecy.- it's the governments own version of "Munchausen by proxy" being run against poor urban populations.

-Mike
 
I agree but it's simpler than this, shootings and violence in inner cities is simply a socioeconomic problem. It's what happens when humans living in close proximity to each other have to compete for limited resources. It devolves into animalistic human behavior, i.e. physical battles for space and resources. Here's a simple thought experiment (and I am not personally advocating for this, just using this to prove my point,) what if you gave all of these "scumbags" doing all the (gun) violence a universal basic income. I bet you crime in these areas would drop drastically. I could be wrong, but my theory is that a large majority of these people if given some of the basics, no longer forced to compete with each other just to survive would no longer risk their lives, or their Free $$$$, or their freedom, by committing crimes. I think it's sad that these marginalized communities exist, but to call firearm / gun crime a public health crisis is clever but absolutely inane.

The lack of mental health services across the US is a public health crisis. The demoncrats depend on this vicious cycle status quo to further their agendas. All I'm trying to do here is figure out a way to disrupt / disturb their agenda. Ironically, it can't be done without giving the FSA what they want, more Free $$$$, which then encourages more people to join the FSA. This is a problem way bigger, it's a "human species" problem. As long as resources are limited, and there are no limits on procreation, a marginalized class will always exist.
UBI won't do a darn thing for crime. These scumbags will always want more than they have and lack the moral inhibition the prevent normal people from just taking what they want.
Most of the violent crime in cities is committed by the progeny of welfare queens already getting free food and housing from taxpayers.
 
The tax didn't fail. It was never about 'gun violence' or raising revenue. The plan was to force all the stores that sell guns to stop selling them or close up an move out of town. It is nearly a complete success. City residents go out of town to buy their guns and ammo.
 
I agree but it's simpler than this, shootings and violence in inner cities is simply a socioeconomic problem. It's what happens when humans living in close proximity to each other have to compete for limited resources. It devolves into animalistic human behavior, i.e. physical battles for space and resources. Here's a simple thought experiment (and I am not personally advocating for this, just using this to prove my point,) what if you gave all of these "scumbags" doing all the (gun) violence a universal basic income. I bet you crime in these areas would drop drastically. I could be wrong, but my theory is that a large majority of these people if given some of the basics, no longer forced to compete with each other just to survive would no longer risk their lives, or their Free $$$$, or their freedom, by committing crimes. I think it's sad that these marginalized communities exist, but to call firearm / gun crime a public health crisis is clever but absolutely inane.

The lack of mental health services across the US is a public health crisis. The demoncrats depend on this vicious cycle status quo to further their agendas. All I'm trying to do here is figure out a way to disrupt / disturb their agenda. Ironically, it can't be done without giving the FSA what they want, more Free $$$$, which then encourages more people to join the FSA. This is a problem way bigger, it's a "human species" problem. As long as resources are limited, and there are no limits on procreation, a marginalized class will always exist.

I disagree. A good majority of shootings are gang related and stem from drug sales. U iversal income for everyone will only increase the possible amount of money to be made off of drug sales. This would likely raise the stakes and INCREASE the violence.
 
I think the tax is really ****ing stupid but pro RKBA people look like retards if they infer some sort of closely held correlation between these two things- particularly in a situation where you can just drive out of town and avoid the tax.

Not that I agree with this stupid ****ing tax, but also lets think critically.. is $25 really going to stop most people from buying a gun for self defense? I doubt it.. that's like a couple boxes of ammo.

One thing that people could argue though is that this tax is a sort of punishment against low income people or poor minorities wanting to
protect themselves; since the folks in that demographic would be hit much harder by such a tax. If pro RKBA people want to harp on something they might suggest this little factoid instead of trying to form some correlation between local gun sales and violent crime rates.

-Mike

Principal is the word your looking for. Do I think the AG's ar ban is a total crock of crap that will get overturned. Yup. But principal of the matter was I was a law abiding small business owner. The type you wanted to keep in your state. And was arbitrarily made a felon over night. I moved because that's bullshit so I moved on principal. Same reason I wouldn't buy a gun inside city limits in Seattle if I loved there
 
Principal is the word your looking for. Do I think the AG's ar ban is a total crock of crap that will get overturned. Yup. But principal of the matter was I was a law abiding small business owner. The type you wanted to keep in your state. And was arbitrarily made a felon over night. I moved because that's bullshit so I moved on principal. Same reason I wouldn't buy a gun inside city limits in Seattle if I loved there

Did you mean "principle" ?
 
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