Scope and Mount Advice

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First off, long time, y'all!

Life is good in Austria, but I do miss my NES family. I'll cut to the chase, a colleague in Poland is a competitive shooter and asked me a question that's out of my wheelhouse. I know scopes/mounts is a topic that has been done 5 ways (or is it 9 ways) to Sunday, but I honestly don't have enough experience on the topic to be able to differentiate which prior advice might be applicable to him and which might not.

Hoping someone with a similar use-case can give some authoritative advice.

The summary ask: Scope and Picatinny mount recommendation for .223/5.56 AR platform (later .308 bolt rifle with Picatinny), good out to 300m, that holds zero reliably on removal and reinstall (due to variety of competitions).

Detail of our dialog below, in case it holds meaningful information that I omitted in my summary.

Michal:
I’m looking for a rifle scope with good price/quality ratio (rather midrange than high-end) for shooting up to 300m (purely sport/target shooting).

Currently I would like to mount it on AR platform (5.56/.223) but eventually it will be meant for .308 win.

Do you think that something 3-24x56 would do the trick?

I’m currently considering Delta Optical Delta Optical Titanium 3-24x56 ED with either MR.P300 or HMR.P300 reticle.

Maybe there’s something from Vortex, Sightron, or other vendor that you can recommend. Definitely I cannot afford Nightforce kind of stuff.

Next is the mount itself… I need a Picatinny rail single-point 0 moa mount (for 34mm main tube) that would not require to zero the scope after each session, or when swapping with a red dot back and forth – any thoughts?

30Mauser:
You mention mounting it on AR platform via Picatinny, but eventually meant for .308. Are you getting an AR-10 (i.e. AR chambered for .308/7.62) or a different style of rifle for the .308? Still Picatinny mount?

How about BUIS? If so, what kind of co-witness will you configure, if at all?

Michal:
I own DDM4v7, so AR-15 platform with freefloat 15” handguard with Picatinny all the way top. Currently I have a red dot for close range, which I use (or BUIS) for shooting up to 100m, but for 200m it makes no sense when you aim for score as the dot is 2 moa, and what’s more I have astigmatism causing the dot to look like a banana.

I’m planning to get Tikka T3x Tac A1 in .308 win when I have some cash set aside and my wife cools down a bit as I’ve bought nice Breda B12i quite recently.

This Tikka model has the Picatinny rail as well, so I can re-use the mount.

For now I need to stick to DD, and depending on the competition, I will have to swap optics or even remove completely and use BUIS.

With 5.56 and zero at 200m I will not be able to get more than 300m effectively, on the other hand there are basically no ranges available for civilians in Poland with more than 300m. This is the target operating range for the scope.

The aim is to avoid zeroing after each swap so the scope itself needs to be decent, but the mount is the key point here.

It needs to be (quite) easy detachable and yet maintain alignment when put back on the same slot on the rail, and preferably at a reasonable price.

As for the BUIS I use Magpul’s MBUS and for red dot it’s configured for lower 1/3, however for sport shooting I don’t need to use BUIS through red dot (or scope) at all.

Thanks in advance, and keep fighting the good fight!
 

chrbla2000

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I'll toss in my $.02, I picked up a quick disconnect mount from LaRue Tatical a few years ago, put a Leupold Mark AR 6-18x scope in it and have had no problems with it holding zero after removal/reinstall. I can't speak to the 300m distance, but my scope at 18x was fine for up to 200 yards, I think scopes above 18x are a significantly higher price point, at least they were 5-6 years ago if I recall correctly.

Hope that helps, here's a link to LaRue:
Riflescope Mounts - LaRue Tactical

-chris
 

terraformer

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The magnification needed/desired is a function of target size. If you want to hit small targets as opposed to good groups at long distances, you need more magnification. That said, magnification is a double edged sword. Too much and every small movement is amplified. Also, is this a front or rear plane cross hair (assuming he is looking for more than a basic duplex)? If rear, the reticle is only accurate in scale at full magnification (meaning the dots on a mildot mean different sizes at different magnifications), so 18X for a 3ft target is way overkill and you need to back off the magnification, losing the scale accuracy of the reticle.

Also, typical cheaper scopes are only 3x magnification from low mag to high mag. ie; 3-9 where 9x is 3 times 3x or 18x is 3 times 6x. If he is going for 3-24x56 than it's a more expensive (and better) scope, which may come with a front plane reticle, but the down sides of that is the reticle becomes harder to see at low magnification but range estimation is easier to do.

Pick your poison based on intended use.
 
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Can't help with the scope but the one with the dot reticle if it's 1/8 moa would be a nice target scope of he does not need hold over points .
As for mounts. I really like the larue I have had for several years now, could be pushing 10?
LaRue Tactical SPR / M4 Scope Mount QD LT104 - LaRue Tactical
As far as holding zero....I can say it's probably never been much more than a minute off in any direction. Although the mount and scope it's attached to is more dedicated to shooting steel targets 6" or larger.
i also have a Vortex one piece mount it's not QD but I like it and have had very little loss of zero. Removing it and reinstalling it.
 

terraformer

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I'll toss in my $.02, I picked up a quick disconnect mount from LaRue Tatical a few years ago, put a Leupold Mark AR 6-18x scope in it and have had no problems with it holding zero after removal/reinstall. I can't speak to the 300m distance, but my scope at 18x was fine for up to 200 yards, I think scopes above 18x are a significantly higher price point, at least they were 5-6 years ago if I recall correctly.

Hope that helps, here's a link to LaRue:
Riflescope Mounts - LaRue Tactical

-chris
I just bought a Mark AR in 6-18x for a Remington 700 I also just bought. It comes tomorrow. I will be using Leupold QRs. I looked at all of my scopes recently and realized apparently I am a leupold fan... I even have one (a 3-9 rimfire freedom) on my 10/22!
 
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Reading the post again, did he not want to rezero between 5.56 and 308? That doesn't make any sense.
He knows he needs to re-zero. He just wanted a scope and mount recommendation that lends to consistency across removal and reattach. Although I suppose you make a good point... if you’re swapping a scope between the 5.56 gun and the .308 gun, you’re re-zeroing anyway, so... 🤷‍♂️
 
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He knows he needs to re-zero. He just wanted a scope and mount recommendation that lends to consistency across removal and reattach. Although I suppose you make a good point... if you’re swapping a scope between the 5.56 gun and the .308 gun, you’re re-zeroing anyway, so... 🤷‍♂️
Reading the post again, did he not want to rezero between 5.56 and 308? That doesn't make any sense.
Yeah I re-read it. Main challenge is retaining zero when swapping optics on a given platform for differing competitions.
 

paul73

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He just wanted a scope and mount recommendation that lends to consistency across removal and reattach.
consistency is provided by quality of machining of the rail and rings.
those steiner rings are very good. note nuts on the crossbolt, not a quicky levers. you tighten those nuts by hand, then do a single 180deg turn with a wrench and it gets it to 60in-lb. simple.
View: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01BE83HZG
and this rail is good.
View: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00URT6VOS

once zeroed i can move it fine, zero is maintained.
 

frenchman

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Late to the party. Sorry.
IMO, a good setup that won’t break the bank is a Large QD with an Arten 4-14x50. Scope has zero stop (awesome, and even better when you swap optics.), FFP, Japanese glass and they guarantee their tracking.
 

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DarkJoker33

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Cheap mounts are often unreliable and not milled well. If you want cheap - this one is ok:
UTG ACCU-SYNC30mm Integral Picatinny Rings, Matte Black, High
View: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0793DZQNS/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_YSM2T5HPWN6RJ40KCBTH?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

Just don’t put a $2000 scope on a $30 mount. :)

Its a quarter of that cost.
But the ones i was eyeballing are $180.
I was looking at that exact 1 and a couple others

Like i understand the machining can be off a touch, but , off enough of a percentage/ thousandths that will make a difference?
 

paul73

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Its a quarter of that cost.
But the ones i was eyeballing are $180.

Like i understand the machining can be off a touch, but , off enough of a percentage/ thousandths that will make a difference?
so, let me put it this way - i took off scope that sits on a set of steiner rings, then placed it back on the rifle, went to re-zero - and it was exactly where it was, the zero.
the rail was good too.

View: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B01BE83FX0


precise machining matters. cheap mounts are cheap because most of them are crap. rings not round, bolts, etc - you can expect normal chineseum level of quality.
good stuff is worth its cost, but, as with everything - decide for yourself. i use that cheap UTG on ARs with LPVO and it works fine. it is less crappy than monstrum and some others. but, crappy.
cheapest vortex is worse, btw. some say primary arms mounts in $45-$65 price range are OK.
 
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Its a quarter of that cost.
But the ones i was eyeballing are $180.
I was looking at that exact 1 and a couple others

Like i understand the machining can be off a touch, but , off enough of a percentage/ thousandths that will make a difference?
.007" is roughly 1" at 100 yards
 
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so, let me put it this way - i took off scope that sits on a set of steiner rings, then placed it back on the rifle, went to re-zero - and it was exactly where it was, the zero.
the rail was good too.

View: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B01BE83FX0


precise machining matters. cheap mounts are cheap because most of them are crap. rings not round, bolts, etc - you can expect normal chineseum level of quality.
good stuff is worth its cost, but, as with everything - decide for yourself. i use that cheap UTG on ARs with LPVO and it works fine. it is less crappy than monstrum and some others. but, crappy.
cheapest vortex is worse, btw. some say primary arms mounts in $45-$65 price range are OK.

quality does pay off, glad you mentioned a good rail also.
to add , the problem with the cheap stuff is the alloy is often questionable and will actually deform and squish or deflect when you tighten it. the cheap rings are run out on tooling until its darn near junk and then a few thousand more units after.
Some inexpensive mounts/rings I have that I like come from leupold, burris, Warne even vortex being chinese made have been pretty good. im talking the sub $250 range.

Think end use. Sure if you have a sub $250 scope why put a $400 mount. Although I will say "better" mounts will go a longer way with a cheap scope than cheap mounts on any scope!

Theres a rule of thumb that has been tossed around since god knows when .... my dad and his buddies Scope should be about half the value of the rifle , mounts and rings should be half the scope value or rings and mounts shouild come from the scope manufacture. Going back 30 years you saw leupold with leu rings, weavers with weavers and such and aa little before that time seems like everthing else had Griffin and Howe....
Fast forward to today: Some of the expensive mounts are not actually better than the others but they dont have the production out put or volume to get the prices down.

Just think what a lambrogini would cost if they pumped them out at the numbers Toyoa does the camry. ?
 

paul73

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ugh to utg,,,,,, good for pellet guns and average 22s
nah, it is a chinesium clone of an aero ultralight mount, the one i posted about. for an lpvo 1- something scopes it is OK enough.
obviously, it is not going to work well with 5-25x or anything heavy, too much flex. but for a lightweight tactical build - it is fine.

as of half the scope price - i would say a 1/4 is more realistic. steiner products are typically in the $200 area and they are superb. you can have a $4000 scope on those rings and have no issues.
 

DarkJoker33

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quality does pay off, glad you mentioned a good rail also.
Ive applied that to many things.
Throught just about the whole build im doing now.
I think the total cost is going to be nearing of the piston god rifle.
I havent added it up yet.
Theres a rule of thumb that has been tossed around since god knows when .... my dad and his buddies Scope should be about half the value of the rifle , mounts and rings should be half the scope value or rings and mounts shouild come from the scope manufacture.
Thats seems like a sound rule to a point.
Fast forward to today: Some of the expensive mounts are not actually better than the others but they dont have the production out put or volume to get the prices down.

Just think what a lambrogini would cost if they pumped them out at the numbers Toyoa does the camry. ?
That first part is what i worry about.
Im relativly new to the game.
This will be my first run with a precision like rifle(.223/5.56) build/ownership.
I see prices like daniel defense for $300 for 2 individual rings and then the same thing from another manufacturer for $60 or less.

Then you have small indy like shops, from what im guessing, for example, american rifle company, are the ones i want.
That are half the price for 2 rings, or around the same price as a while 1 piece like unit.

It wasnt to long ago when you could essesntally get that Lamborghini at an audi price.
Gallardo=R8 and vice versa.

It just seems like a deep bag of worms.
 
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Ive applied that to many things.
Throught just about the whole build im doing now.
I think the total cost is going to be nearing of the piston god rifle.
I havent added it up yet.

Thats seems like a sound rule to a point.

That first part is what i worry about.
Im relativly new to the game.
This will be my first run with a precision like rifle(.223/5.56) build/ownership.
I see prices like daniel defense for $300 for 2 individual rings and then the same thing from another manufacturer for $60 or less.

Then you have small indy like shops, from what im guessing, for example, american rifle company, are the ones i want.
That are half the price for 2 rings, or around the same price as a while 1 piece like unit.

It wasnt to long ago when you could essesntally get that Lamborghini at an audi price.
Gallardo=R8 and vice versa.

It just seems like a deep bag of worms.
Right ,
What I try do is buy from the sellers who actually make their parts. If its subbed out or basically a manufacture who stamps other names on a generic project.
Im not ultra high end by any means
My larue 104, luepold MkII and burris have not been the fault of any bad shots.
All had for that $175-$275 range
 
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