School me on modern Springfield M1A's

[Deleted member 67409]

Reasonable maintenance can prevent that, but if a system is going to be neglected the M1/M1A is more like the AK in terms of handling neglect.

No, sorry, I don't buy that argument at all. The AK uses an easy replaced gas piston and doesn't have to be fed ammo within a very specific pressure curve. If an op-rod bends or breaks on a M14, the gun's done.

A 47-pattern AK gas piston is $5-10, an M14 op rod is $200 and is rarely a drop in part, according to M14 Forum:

Fitting op rod?

Try replacing a M14 op-rod in Yemen - there's a reason why very few foreign countries, if any, contracted to buy new production M14s (H&R tried to sell the M14 - guess how great that went). Most if not all M14s in foreign service were US surplus.

 

[Da_lucche]

No, sorry, I don't buy that argument at all. The AK uses an easy replaced gas piston and doesn't have to be fed ammo within a very specific pressure curve. If an op-rod bends or breaks on a M14, the gun's done.

A 47-pattern AK gas piston is $5-10, an M14 op rod is $200 and is rarely a drop in part, according to M14 Forum:

Fitting op rod?

Try replacing a M14 op-rod in Yemen - there's a reason why very few foreign countries, if any, contracted to buy new production M14s (H&R tried to sell the M14 - guess how great that went). Most if not all M14s in foreign service were US surplus.

Another reason I sold off the M1A was because of its less than worthlessness aversion to rust as well.

 

[Mountain]

No, sorry, I don't buy that argument at all. The AK uses an easy replaced gas piston and doesn't have to be fed ammo within a very specific pressure curve. If an op-rod bends or breaks on a M14, the gun's done.

A 47-pattern AK gas piston is $5-10, an M14 op rod is $200 and is rarely a drop in part, according to M14 Forum:

Fitting op rod?

Try replacing a M14 op-rod in Yemen - there's a reason why very few foreign countries, if any, contracted to buy new production M14s (H&R tried to sell the M14 - guess how great that went). Most if not all M14s in foreign service were US surplus.

You bring up a very good point that drags me out of fantasy land. M14 is basically obsolete now, excepting some specialty production. Screw both the M14 and the AR- I'm gonna build another AK.

Regarding the op rod fitting, that's debatable and I'm on the 'no' side. The only areas that really require fitting are optional for enhanced accuracy: fitting a NM rear sight aperture and fitting / shimming the GC lock for correct timing and torque. Maybe the op rod guide if you have a new barrel with heavy park.

 

[Deleted member 67409]

You bring up a very good point that drags me out of fantasy land. M14 is basically obsolete now, excepting some specialty production. Screw both the M14 and the AR- I'm gonna build another AK.

The whole discussion is moot anyways because OP and most SA M1A buyers want the gun as a safe queen. That's fine, SA knows that, and that's how SA makes their guns. They're not in-spec (again, look at the M14 Forum), they're not as versatile as modern 7.62 NATO guns, and no military is seriously considering the M14 in 2021 for various reasons.

Its like Harley Davidsons and 1911s - people like the M14 because of how it looks and feels. That's why they sell.

 

[Mountain]

The whole discussion is moot anyways because OP and most SA M1A buyers want the gun as a safe queen. That's fine, SA knows that, and that's how SA makes their guns. They're not in-spec (again, look at the M14 Forum), they're not as versatile as modern 7.62 NATO guns, and no military is seriously considering the M14 in 2021 for various reasons.

Its like Harley Davidsons and 1911s - people like the M14 because of how it looks and feels. That's why they sell.

The M1A is a pretty good platform for CMP paper punching games. I think they hold better for offhand than an AR, and the CMP 7.5 lb limit for AR's keeps accuracy compatible to a match prepped M1A. New CMP rules now allow up to 9.4 lbs for the M1A. Anyway, I ride mine hard and put it up wet. It will 'clean' a slow fire stage if I do my part.

 

[PatMcD]

The M1A is a pretty good platform for CMP paper punching games. I think they hold better for offhand than an AR, and the CMP 7.5 lb limit for AR's keeps accuracy compatible to a match prepped M1A. New CMP rules now allow up to 9.4 lbs for the M1A. Anyway, I ride mine hard and put it up wet. It will 'clean' a slow fire stage if I do my part.

The CMP has a 7.5lb weight limit for AR's?? When did that happen? Mine's almost double that.

And no, op-rods do not need to be "fit" to work in the M14.

 

[PatMcD]

Forgot I had these.

 

[PappyM3]

The M1A is a pretty good platform for CMP paper punching games. I think they hold better for offhand than an AR, and the CMP 7.5 lb limit for AR's keeps accuracy compatible to a match prepped M1A. New CMP rules now allow up to 9.4 lbs for the M1A. Anyway, I ride mine hard and put it up wet. It will 'clean' a slow fire stage if I do my part.

The CMP has a 7.5lb weight limit for AR's?? When did that happen? Mine's almost double that.

And no, op-rods do not need to be "fit" to work in the M14.

There is no CMP weight limit for service rifles. The 7.5lbs is just for the quirky Modern Military matches. And the AR service rifles spank the M1A service rifles. I can also build a 7.5lb modern military match AR that will also spank an M1A. Modern lightweight barrels are pretty great. M1A = nostalgia

 

[PappyM3]

Experience and firsthand accounts. Interesting videos but they are not going to change my opinion. Of course opinions are like bungholes- everybody has one and they all stink.

Gun Jesus mud crawling aside, I've never had a M1 nor M1A fail to go into battery, even with tight match chambers. Can't say the same for AR's. Carbon fouling and/or little bits of whatever can cause problems with the AR bolt. Reasonable maintenance can prevent that, but if a system is going to be neglected the M1/M1A is more like the AK in terms of handling neglect.

At least soldiers had this helpful cartoon...

ARs have come a long way since Vietnam and their mis-speced ammo. It’s pretty normal to shoot thousands of rounds from an AR without cleaning and just adding lube.

But man, I love the timelessness of Preventative Maintenance Monthly.

 

[PappyM3]

Nobody has mentioned that you can march in your living room in tidy whiteys and a M14 clone shouting “ this is my rifle this is my gun, this is for fighting this is for fun”. Not nostalgia, training.

You can’t do this with AR-10.

“Not nostalgia, just a normal Tuesday”

 

[duffyd]

The whole discussion is moot anyways because OP and most SA M1A buyers want the gun as a safe queen. That's fine, SA knows that, and that's how SA makes their guns. They're not in-spec (again, look at the M14 Forum), they're not as versatile as modern 7.62 NATO guns, and no military is seriously considering the M14 in 2021 for various reasons.

Its like Harley Davidsons and 1911s - people like the M14 because of how it looks and feels. That's why they sell.

Yup, they are heavy, they shoot well but they are just damn purty

 

[rosco61]

Safe queen Aye ! Got mine in 92 maybe 40 rounds down the pipe. She is perfect. And I might put another 40 rounds thru pop her this summer too.

 

[cathouse01]

I think it’s a bit of a waste of time to debate the relative merits of rifles that are generations apart in design and manufacture. My SCAR 17s is better than my SA M1A1, which is better than my M1 Garand re-barreled in .308. You would hope that a gun designed in 2004 would be better than a gun designed in 1954, which would be better than a gun designed in 1928.

If you look at what they were competing against when they were designed, the Garand is by far the heads up winner. In battle, it was mostly going up against bolt actions and from that aspect it was light years ahead.

If I could only keep one of my .30 cal battle rifles, it probably would be the SCAR. But fortunately I can still have some of the old warhorses for fun and games. And who knows, some day they might be needed to fulfill their original rolls.

 

[AllaSnackbah]

The whole discussion is moot anyways because OP and most SA M1A buyers want the gun as a safe queen. That's fine, SA knows that, and that's how SA makes their guns. They're not in-spec (again, look at the M14 Forum), they're not as versatile as modern 7.62 NATO guns, and no military is seriously considering the M14 in 2021 for various reasons.

Its like Harley Davidsons and 1911s - people like the M14 because of how it looks and feels. That's why they sell.

You nailed it here, none of the dudes glass bedding their actions to get their M1A to shoot 1 minute will even let them get wet, but im supposed to buy its "basically an AK" as far as reliability goes, "just put your hand over the action, dust covers are for pussies".

Some of the mindsets in this thread about reliability of the M14 vs M16/M4 havent developed since the M14 was last relevant and it shows.

 

[Mountain]

The CMP has a 7.5lb weight limit for AR's?? When did that happen? Mine's almost double that.

And no, op-rods do not need to be "fit" to work in the M14.

Modern Military, not service rifle. My service rifle weighs a ton too.

 

[mac1911]

No, sorry, I don't buy that argument at all. The AK uses an easy replaced gas piston and doesn't have to be fed ammo within a very specific pressure curve. If an op-rod bends or breaks on a M14, the gun's done.

A 47-pattern AK gas piston is $5-10, an M14 op rod is $200 and is rarely a drop in part, according to M14 Forum:

Fitting op rod?

Try replacing a M14 op-rod in Yemen - there's a reason why very few foreign countries, if any, contracted to buy new production M14s (H&R tried to sell the M14 - guess how great that went). Most if not all M14s in foreign service were US surplus.

No, sorry, I don't buy that argument at all. The AK uses an easy replaced gas piston and doesn't have to be fed ammo within a very specific pressure curve. If an op-rod bends or breaks on a M14, the gun's done.

A 47-pattern AK gas piston is $5-10, an M14 op rod is $200 and is rarely a drop in part, according to M14 Forum:

Fitting op rod?

Try replacing a M14 op-rod in Yemen - there's a reason why very few foreign countries, if any, contracted to buy new production M14s (H&R tried to sell the M14 - guess how great that went). Most if not all M14s in foreign service were US surplus.

You have sources for info that HRA was trying to sell government contracted rifles?
Anyhow heres 676 pages of M14 history
I pick through it once in a while.

http://miamirifle-pistol.org/wp-content/uploads/M14-RHAD-Text-Only-Edition-100815.pdf

 

[Deleted member 67409]

You have sources for info that HRA was trying to sell government contracted rifles?
Anyhow heres 676 pages of M14 history
I pick through it once in a while.

http://miamirifle-pistol.org/wp-content/uploads/M14-RHAD-Text-Only-Edition-100815.pdf

Just to clarify, I wasn't implying H&R was trying to sell US-contract rifles. I stated that H&R wanted to win foreign contracts.

 

[mac1911]

You nailed it here, none of the dudes glass bedding their actions to get their M1A to shoot 1 minute will even let them get wet, but im supposed to buy its "basically an AK" as far as reliability goes, "just put your hand over the action, dust covers are for pussies".

Some of the mindsets in this thread about reliability of the M14 vs M16/M4 havent developed since the M14 was last relevant and it shows.

True match shooters did not give a shit if there rifle got wet it was/is a tool of wood and steel . Easily dried when done.
Every gun has there fan club. Many guns are so close in designs from 80-100 years ago.
Im not a fan of safe queens of common production guns.
M1, M1a, M14 even the M16 where designed to be shot....and shot alot then repaired or rebuilt. The death of the M1 and M14 and other large steel and wood rifles where mostly due to cost and battle tactics changing.
My great uncle said one time that we at some point shifted from killing our enemies to wounding them?
During his service in WWII he said he would try to acquire a firearm suitable for the task at hand.
Loved the Garand and 1911 , carbine was food for crawling through the ruble of bombed out cities.
I think today he would not mind the M16 family although je would probably say why are we stuck in a 50 plus year old design....and then be asking why we dont have ray guns yet.

 

[BillyBoy]

The Scout Squad is def on my purchase list but not in a hurry to get one...

 

[mac1911]

Just to clarify, I wasn't implying H&R was trying to sell US-contract rifles. I stated that H&R wanted to win foreign contracts.

Im not seeing that in what gun jesus was saying. US was already selling M14s to foreign countries and H&R was pitching another “modified” design probably in the attempt to pick up exptendend contracts because H&R probably already seen the end in sight for the M14

 

[Deleted member 67409]

Im not seeing that in what gun jesus was saying. US was already selling M14s to foreign countries and H&R was pitching another “modified” design probably in the attempt to pick up exptendend contracts because H&R probably already seen the end in sight for the M14

Selling or giving?

 

[mac1911]

Selling or giving?

Both , government sold,gave,leased, lent guns all over the world. The M14 was coming to a end and HRA was scrambling to find a way to extend production

that HRA prototype again was another solution to a problem it could not fix.
hRA was set up to produce M14s and with no new contracts was reaching to keep M14 production going.

 

[mac1911]

You bring up a very good point that drags me out of fantasy land. M14 is basically obsolete now, excepting some specialty production. Screw both the M14 and the AR- I'm gonna build another AK.

Regarding the op rod fitting, that's debatable and I'm on the 'no' side. The only areas that really require fitting are optional for enhanced accuracy: fitting a NM rear sight aperture and fitting / shimming the GC lock for correct timing and torque. Maybe the op rod guide if you have a new barrel with heavy park.

Yesssss

 

[mac1911]

Safe queen Aye ! Got mine in 92 maybe 40 rounds down the pipe. She is perfect. And I might put another 40 rounds thru pop her this summer too.

Thats just not right, chootit

 

[xtry51]

SA M1As are beautiful things and the wood furniture makes them warm to hold. 20rds of pure f*** everyone I don't like within 400m of me, with nothing but irons and like pushing an easy button.

 

[mac1911]

The CMP has a 7.5lb weight limit for AR's?? When did that happen? Mine's almost double that.

And no, op-rods do not need to be "fit" to work in the M14.

CMP games rules are a CF and always shifting. By the time I caught up to the cmp games modern military rules for the AR 3 years went by! In the end I shaved off a few inches of barrel length and machined off some of the heavy section of the barrel.
My NRA service rifle has the buttstock weight and some stick on wheel wheights up front to balance it off a bit. Want to say its 15# I never weighed it. Been 2 years since I got to shoot NRA.
I shoot cmp games because its local and fits my life schedule. I have a M(14)
Rockola Receiver, LRB bolt and Saco/LRB match barrel with the rest being GI parts except I replaced the cracked GI stock with a new SAI stock set.
I only did that to have another rifle in the rotation for the matches as I like to shoot diffetent rifles, ammo, powder charges , bullet types and weights.
I might develop a nice cast load for my M(14) for 200 yard cmp games. Just need to get under 3moa to have fun with it.

im not that old and not a huge fan if the M14 BUT I do prefer full size guns.
Shot a SCAR and I can tell you I was not fun or fitting for prone or sitting and off hand it just did not play well for me

 

[PatMcD]

In a related, sad note, Clint McKee died earlier this month.

 

[mac1911]

SA M1As are beautiful things and the wood furniture makes them warm to hold. 20rds of pure f*** everyone I don't like within 400m of me, with nothing but irons and like pushing an easy button.
View attachment 460969

Nice and no disrespect but thats not even nice wood. Theres some great looking stocks out there.
For me I like the used look with love bites on them. I got some crap for staining a other wise useless stock red after I learned how to fix some big splits and cracks with epoxy and brass pins.
As for SHTF i will probably grab my sks
And a 22lr.
Going into battle ....what ever is in front of me

 

[mac1911]

In a related, sad note, Clint McKee died earlier this month.

I have assembly guide by Clint , other than a few books and articles I have read I really dont know of him. Sorry to hear his passing. I pray he was very old and lived a full life

 

[mac1911]

https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/677383.pdf

Thought this was interesting to see how much money went into the M14