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School me on Glass/Optics

Broc said:
I never used ATHLON, but EURO OPTICS has a sale right now. There are a few 1-X optics with illuminated reticles that look very nice.

If anyone can comment on the quality of AHTLON, that would be great. I might pull the trigger on one for an AR10 this week.
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I've used an ares btr 1st gen for a few years on a .308 out to 600 yards and have had no issues. I just picked up a Cronus gen2 for a rimfire PRS build on a Black Friday sale. I don't have the rings for it yet so I don't have a range report but the fit and finish and build quality seems good. I believe Athlon has a lifetime guarantee so if you have any issues it shouldn't be a problem.
 
PatMcD said:
The "spend twice as much on the scope as you do the rifle" advice has been obsolete for about 30 years now.
There no way you need to dish out $3K for a scope on a $1500 rifle. That's just stupid.
Click to expand...
I adopted another method , especially for my budget scopes.
My mounts and rings often cost more than both the rifle and optic , lol.
I will add 75% of my scoped rifles are zero and leave it PBR set up.
My “best” scope was purchased a few years before all the goodies became standard. Zero stop , large exposed turrets , better glass.

I will admit I have a few budget scopes that fit their end use and have been fine.
My Sightron SIII 8x32x54 has been great. Other than no zero stop and only will focus parallax down to 50 yards. .
It pretty much lives on 24x as thats the reticles subtention point for
I like the simple reticle on this has a 1/4 moa center dot and 2moa divisions on the reticle.
 
I am not reading great things about ATHLON. Mixed reviews.

Most seem to say the glass is really good, very clear, good quality. People seem happy with that.

Most seem to also say anything past 6x is unusable.

Quite a few seem to say eye relief is terrible.

No first hand experience, just reading different forums and reviews.
 
PatMcD said:
The "spend twice as much on the scope as you do the rifle" advice has been obsolete for about 30 years now.
There no way you need to dish out $3K for a scope on a $1500 rifle. That's just stupid.
Click to expand...
To an extent, sure, but I think the underlying message of that old adage is still true...don't cheap out on glass. $1k will get a nice Japan/USA made scope, and I can't imagine spending much less than that for a capable rifle.
 
Junior314 said:
Looking for the scope/optics/glass for dummies version. Maybe a solid Youtube video etc. I've typically only shot iron sights although I have an EO tech red dot on one of my AR platforms.

Budget of around $500 maybe a little more, to go on the Ruger SFAR .308 with intentions of 100-300 yards give or take. I know little to nothing about the subject.
Click to expand...

Its all about money..

Scopes under $500 will leave a lot to be desired, as long as you don't look through a good scope it won't bother you knowing what you don't have. They will do the work, light gathering in low light not good.

$500 -$1k Scopes are pretty decent and you will notice a big difference.

Over $1k you will notice a small difference from under $1k.

$2k over you will notice a small difference from the $2k and under. But the most noticeable things are clarity and light gathering, that is why you pay the big bucks.

German and Japanese glass are great, so look for that.

People may disagree with my assessment, but they are wrong.
 
Broc said:
not reading great things about ATHLON. Mixed reviews.
Click to expand...
i do not like lower grade athlons at all, but most people say a cronus is ok. still, to dump a $1k on the brand which lower grade products are trash - well, dunno.
again, as i went over all the cheap shit on the market that is currently available :) - the arkens are the best of the cheap stuff. of LPVO - swampfox arrowhead was the best.
then goes primary arms with their SLx line.

for above that - as we venture into $600-$800 range - one really should be looking at vortex pst2 only, just would need hunt down for sales and discounts.
and in that category, i would still prefer a pst2 vortex over athlon cronus, for a variety of reasons.
and above $1.5K - the sky is the limit. speaking specifically of my preferences - i would go from pst2 to razor or nightforces. i just cannot rationalize getting an expensive top tier from a shitty brand.
it is like buying those top tier genesis cars over audi or porsche - some would for sure do, but, why?
 
paul73 said:
i do not like lower grade athlons at all, but most people say a cronus is ok. still, to dump a $1k on the brand which lower grade products are trash - well, dunno.
again, as i went over all the cheap shit on the market that is currently available :) - the arkens are the best of the cheap stuff. of LPVO - swampfox arrowhead was the best.
then goes primary arms with their SLx line.

for above that - as we venture into $600-$800 range - one really should be looking at vortex pst2 only, just would need hunt down for sales and discounts.
and in that category, i would still prefer a pst2 vortex over athlon cronus, for a variety of reasons.
and above $1.5K - the sky is the limit. speaking specifically of my preferences - i would go from pst2 to razor or nightforces. i just cannot rationalize getting an expensive top tier from a shitty brand.
it is like buying those top tier genesis cars over audi or porsche - some would for sure do, but, why?
Click to expand...
Audi and Porsche are owned by VW, they make sh*ty products as well.
 
I put one of these on a 16” bolt gun and I am VERY impressed for the price point. Clear glass with little shadow, fast parallax adjustment, and awesome lowlight clarity.

Mid Range Hunting Scope | Helos BTR 2-12x42 MOA

Take to the field with this ideal mid range hunting scope. The 2-12x magnification is suitable for a wide range of hunting situations.
athlonoptics.com athlonoptics.com
 
Woods use- 1-4 or 5 or 6. I like Leupold.
Agriculture fields , power lines 2-7 Ditto on the Leup.
Pure target I'm currently using a Vortex 1-4. Considering stepping up 2 or 500 dollars but pretty sure at my skill leveI would mostly be benefitting pretty much only by the name on the side.
High magnification scopes might be useful on built bench gun with handmade ammo, but keep mind there is plenty of guys shooting 600 yds at a six inch x ring with 4.5 power scopes, or (shudder) irons even.
 
BrianWilson said:
plenty of guys shooting 600 yds at a six inch x ring with 4.5 power scopes
Click to expand...
a higher magnification is needed to be able to see the actual point of impact, so one could adjust a windage, typically.
through the 1-6x scope is it not really possible to see the point of impact well even at 100yds, you'd need a spotting scope next to it, to actually see where did your bullet ended up in there.
once zeroed and with known drops - sure, you can shoot it up to 600.
 
paul73 said:
so one could adjust a windage, typically.
Click to expand...
"The base formula for determining the wind effect on a 308 bullet is: Range (expressed in hundreds of yards), minus 1 equals the MOA of correction necessary for a 10 mph wind at that range. I.e. for a 500 yard shot in a 10 mph wind you need 4 MOA of wind correction. (5-1=4). It is that easy. For a 300 yard shot in the same conditions you need 2 MOA (3-1=2).

You now need to adjust for actual wind speed. Wind will move the bullet way from its flight path an amount directly proportional to the speed of the wind. A 5 mph wind has one half the effect of a 10 mph wind. A 15 mph wind will have 50% added effect. A 20 mph wind will have double the effect. Simply adjust your base calculation accordingly. Note that this formula works from 200-1000 yards. (At 100 yards a 10 mph full value wind will blow a typical .308 sniping projectile about .7 inch. Use that information rather than the formula for shots of 100 yards or less) For ranges that are in between even 100 yard range increments, round to the nearest 100 yards.

The last factor is wind angle. A full value wind is a wind that is blowing at 90 degrees to the path of the bullet. It will have the most effect. A wind that is blowing perfectly along the path of the bullet, either with the bullet or against the bullet will not blow the bullet sideways. It is called a no value wind. A wind that is blowing at a 30 degree angle off the path of the bullet is a half value wind. Many sniper schools do not break wind calling down past those three wind calls. They lump everything that is not full value or no value into a half value category. This might be close enough for short range shooting, which almost all LE shooting is, but understand that it is a generalization used for speed and simplicity and a more precise examination of the wind angle will provide better precision needed for longer range targets. A wind table is attached which shows a more accurate representation of wind values. Let’s go with these three values for now and give some examples of how to use the formula"
Courtesy of Black Hill ammo.

Please. Click it in and let her rip. If it's a miss, given the average recreational shooter, shooting milsurp ammo thru an entry level semi auto carbine, either offhand or off a rest, from 1-300 yds, chances are it's not the wind.
 
AJK129 said:
Ill probably try one of these next time I need a cheap scope. Although im itching for something fancy on the next build
Click to expand...
I swear swampfox comes out of the same chinese factory as the cheaper vortex. When you factor in the mil/leo discount, great bang for the ole buck. Just a little heavy.
 
Ron Jablonski said:
I've used an ares btr 1st gen for a few years on a .308 out to 600 yards and have had no issues. I just picked up a Cronus gen2 for a rimfire PRS build on a Black Friday sale. I don't have the rings for it yet so I don't have a range report but the fit and finish and build quality seems good. I believe Athlon has a lifetime guarantee so if you have any issues it shouldn't be a problem.
Click to expand...
I had a Cronus, solid scope. I'm sure the new generation will serve you very well.
 
Tallahassee said:
I swear swampfox comes out of the same chinese factory as the cheaper vortex. When you factor in the mil/leo discount, great bang for the ole buck. Just a little heavy.
Click to expand...
I always end up going with the pst2 because it seems to be the cheapest non chinese glass I can find
 
BrianWilson said:
"The base formula for determining the wind effect on a 308 bullet is: Range (expressed in hundreds of yards), minus 1 equals the MOA of correction necessary for a 10 mph wind at that range. I.e. for a 500 yard shot in a 10 mph wind you need 4 MOA of wind correction. (5-1=4). It is that easy. For a 300 yard shot in the same conditions you need 2 MOA (3-1=2).

You now need to adjust for actual wind speed. Wind will move the bullet way from its flight path an amount directly proportional to the speed of the wind. A 5 mph wind has one half the effect of a 10 mph wind. A 15 mph wind will have 50% added effect. A 20 mph wind will have double the effect. Simply adjust your base calculation accordingly. Note that this formula works from 200-1000 yards. (At 100 yards a 10 mph full value wind will blow a typical .308 sniping projectile about .7 inch. Use that information rather than the formula for shots of 100 yards or less) For ranges that are in between even 100 yard range increments, round to the nearest 100 yards.

The last factor is wind angle. A full value wind is a wind that is blowing at 90 degrees to the path of the bullet. It will have the most effect. A wind that is blowing perfectly along the path of the bullet, either with the bullet or against the bullet will not blow the bullet sideways. It is called a no value wind. A wind that is blowing at a 30 degree angle off the path of the bullet is a half value wind. Many sniper schools do not break wind calling down past those three wind calls. They lump everything that is not full value or no value into a half value category. This might be close enough for short range shooting, which almost all LE shooting is, but understand that it is a generalization used for speed and simplicity and a more precise examination of the wind angle will provide better precision needed for longer range targets. A wind table is attached which shows a more accurate representation of wind values. Let’s go with these three values for now and give some examples of how to use the formula"
Courtesy of Black Hill ammo.

Please. Click it in and let her rip. If it's a miss, given the average recreational shooter, shooting milsurp ammo thru an entry level semi auto carbine, either offhand or off a rest, from 1-300 yds, chances are it's not the wind.
Click to expand...
here is my formula - you aim, guess the distance, dial in the elevation, then you shoot. bullet hits someplace else sideways - and you'll need to see it.
then you either take next shot immediately using the reticle to offset the delta, or dial in the required windage and elevation corrections, based on what you saw and measured with your reticle.

the theories that require you to use some math formulas using an actual wind speed and direction of said wind at the point of aim 500+ yds away - those are nice theories, but, mostly useless practically.

and the core element of all the above still is - you do need to make sure that you will see the actual point of impact after the shot. either have an eagle eyes with your iron sights, or invest into a good 5-25x scope that does actually allow you to see something.
 
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Tallahassee said:
swear swampfox comes out of the same chinese factory as the cheaper vortex.
Click to expand...
no need to swear, as factual number of glass milling factories producing lenses and sweatshops putting those things together are much less then amount of various brands selling those products.
 
paul73 said:
here is my formula - you aim, guess the distance, dial in the elevation, then you shoot. bullet hits someplace else sideways - and you'll need to see it.
then you either take next shot immediately using the reticle to offset the delta, or dial in the required windage and elevation corrections, based on what you saw and measured with your reticle.

the theories that require you to use some math formulas using an actual wind speed and direction of said wind at the point of aim 500+ yds away - those are nice theories, but, mostly useless practically.

and the core element of all the above still is - you do need to make sure that you will see the actual point of impact after the shot. either have an eagle eyes with your iron sights, or invest into a good 5-25x scope that does actually allow you to see something.
Click to expand...
IDK I think its good to know your wind adjustments either by math in your head or the calculator your looking through.
 
I am quite happy with my cheap vortex crossfire II 6-18. Put about 200 rounds through it, not a single issue. Nice clear glass, a very low price point (sub $200), and a simple reticle with the V-Plex version. I find a lot of BDC options are really messy and distracting, I'd rather have my dope known than rely on hold overs. P
 
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paul73 said:
here is my formula - you aim, guess the distance, dial in the elevation, then you shoot. bullet hits someplace else sideways - and you'll need to see it.
then you either take next shot immediately using the reticle to offset the delta, or dial in the required windage and elevation corrections, based on what you saw and measured with your reticle.

the theories that require you to use some math formulas using an actual wind speed and direction of said wind at the point of aim 500+ yds away - those are nice theories, but, mostly useless practically.

and the core element of all the above still is - you do need to make sure that you will see the actual point of impact after the shot. either have an eagle eyes with your iron sights, or invest into a good 5-25x scope that does actually allow you to see something.
Click to expand...
LOL. So just guess the range, dial elevation, and try to spot your misses? Basically waste your first shot on every new target. How scientific...

The "theories" are absolutely not useless, they are how people get 1st round impacts on their intended target. Understanding the ballistics of your cartridge in your specific rifle and understanding how to read environmentals and make adjustments for first round impacts is literally the whole point of practical long range marksmanship.
 
www.leupold.com

VX-3HD 3.5-10x40 CDS-ZL Duplex

The VX®-3HD 3.5-10x40mm delivers legendary performance and extreme clarity in an incredibly tough, lightweight package. Its versatile magnification can get the job done in almost any scenario.
www.leupold.com www.leupold.com

Meopta Sports Optics | Optika5 3-15x44

Flexi Portál
www.meoptasportsoptics.com www.meoptasportsoptics.com

Trust me these two. I just bought both. The leupold is going on my wife's 6.5 cm. I got her that one because of the weight. It's only 13 ounces.
The optika goes on my son in laws 30-06. The clarity on both is incredible. Both are very high quality. Vortex glass does not come close. I have two vortex scopes so I have something to compare to. Plus the eye relief on both of the above scopes are great.

I use the same leupold on my 308. I also have a meopta bino. That bino can hang in with a swaro. Meopta is that good.

We hunt with a goal of keeping it under 350 yards. No need to get fancy with dialing at that distance. Set it at 200 yards or so and anything out to 350 yards is dead as long as you put the crosshairs onto the vitals and do your job.
 
paul73 said:
here is my formula - you aim, guess the distance, dial in the elevation, then you shoot. bullet hits someplace else sideways - and you'll need to see it.
then you either take next shot immediately using the reticle to offset the delta, or dial in the required windage and elevation corrections, based on what you saw and measured with your reticle.

the theories that require you to use some math formulas using an actual wind speed and direction of said wind at the point of aim 500+ yds away - those are nice theories, but, mostly useless practically.

and the core element of all the above still is - you do need to make sure that you will see the actual point of impact after the shot. either have an eagle eyes with your iron sights, or invest into a good 5-25x scope that does actually allow you to see something.
Click to expand...
That's a good formula for walking in artillery. I'm no operator but I prefer to trust my math and DOPE and shoot at as low of a power possible to maintain wide FOV, I also find it faster to get back on target at lower power. You should strive for first shot hits. Things that can run away usually don't wait around for you to take a do over.
 

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