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School me on .223 and 5.56
- Thread starter appraiser
- Start date
I have bags of Wolf Poly Performance .223 steel casings. They are Boxer primed and I've reloaded about 3k of them. It's winter ammo when "brass" gets lost in the snow or shooting somewhere where retrieval is a PITA.
I've also reloaded Wolf steel cased .45acp and .308. If the Wolf 9mm was Boxer primed, I'd have reloaded the shit out of it by the pallet, but it is all Berdan.
Well, at least 1 guy on here really loves that steel shit
. Colt, spikes, Anderson and DD. Unknown milspec brand extractor and a Lantac extractor.
No need, I have thousands of rounds of brass through them.I'll do that and be in plenty of good company.
I'd still advise you to have your rifle checked by a competent smith for over gassing and correct buffer parts.
The longer technical explanation from Hornday: @appraiser
What is the difference between 5.56 NATO and 223 Rem ammunition? - Hornady Law Enforcement
Differences between the two are small but can have a large impact on performance, safety and weapon function. The first difference is the higher pressure level of the 5.56 NATO cartridge which runs at approximately 58,000 psi. A 223 Remington is loade...
It is. Aside from observable velocity differences and the word of Black Hills, here are some data all using the same sensor position and methodology. Orrr, you can go by what Wikipedia says.
5.56 vs .223 - What You Know May Be Wrong - LuckyGunner.com Labs
Andrew of Lucky Gunner Labs explores the differences between .223 Remington and 5.56mm NATO ammunition - and the results may surprise you!
www.luckygunner.com
It's THE SAME FRIGGIN CASE!
You can blow a rifle in a number of ways. Using the wrong powder is the best way. But, commercial/govt 5.56 ammo is not loaded to such a high pressure that its going to blow a 223 chambered rifle.
It just isnt.
You can blow a rifle in a number of ways. Using the wrong powder is the best way. But, commercial/govt 5.56 ammo is not loaded to such a high pressure that its going to blow a 223 chambered rifle.
It just isnt.
I don’t think anybody has said anything counter to that.
But the pressures are different. And a 5.56 cartridge in a .223 chamber can yield a higher pressure than that same cartridge in a 5.66 chamber.
Higher than the 114psi difference that has been claimed in this thread. Unlikely to cause a problem, but yes, potentially high enough to cause a problem. M855A1 aside, commercial loads at 5.56 pressures could pop primers and cause issues in your trigger group, as one example.
But no, it won’t likely blow up your gun. Which I totally agree with you on. But if you have a 223 gun and 5.56 ammo, run it until you see pressure signs. No pressure signs, keep shooting.
TOM1960
Banned
I heard the "warnings" from the "experts" many times. A strong, modern bolt-action will handle 5.56mm just fine. I ran NATO 5.56mm through my Savage bolt gun with no problems whatsoever. Check the cases and primers of the first few rounds. Cracked case mouths, bulged cases and protruding primers are excessive-pressure warnings. If this happens to you, stop using that ammo immediately!
Tallahassee
NES Member
No problems with brass, just the steel?I can tell you from experience that steel case will break your extractors. I went through 2 of them in about 400 rounds plus multiple malfunctions with every magazine. I bought a 1000 rounds of it on the cheap and I was stubborn, I was determined to shoot all 1000 rounds. I have 600 rounds of steel case for sale.
Tallahassee
NES Member
mil reticle, moa turrets for the win.
Ok, next question: do you know of anybody using FACTORY ammo who has popped a primer? Someone who doesn't have a chewed-up firing pin to begin with? Handloaders, yes, especially if you're pushing heavy bullets. I've done it dozens of times. But factory 5.56 in a 223 chamber? I've never heard of it.
I don't trust Hornady's advice. They can't even make a 75gr bullet that will get all the way to the target.
EDIT: I just re-read everything I've posted in this thread and I'll just say this:
If you are at all nervous about chamber pressures, don't use 5.56 ammo in a standard SAAMI 223 chamber. The worst thing that will happen is you might pop a primer, but if that makes you nervous, don't do it.
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Tallahassee
NES Member
I got nothing, that's a new one to me. If it was everything, I would say get a heavy extractor spring, a blue buffer spring, and a heavier buffer. That usually fixes it.
Lol, senior member…. There’s no slang here and He provided a resource of value relevant to the OPs question, relax.
Steel core - Steel core is typical coated with lube (lacquer?) to provide more reliable feeding and to provide a sacrificial surface between the steel case and the steel chamber. Steel case Ammo can be hard on extractors and I guess if you run thousands and thousands of rounds wear your chamber prematurely. Personally I have never run any in my guns, but have some in reserve in case supplies run low
Rate of twist - back in the day when lighter was perceived as better for .223 / 5.56 twist rates were 1:10 or 1:12 for 45grn projectiles. Today 55grn is really the lightest, with all sorts of terrific factory rounds loaded from 62grn to 77grn these are better for both distance shooting and defensive purposes. A 1:7 or 1:8 will stabilize the vast majority of 55-77grn loads and would likely be your best bet for versatility.
193 vs 855 - 193 = 55grn metal jacket. Ok accuracy, general use round. 855 = steel penetrator for enhanced penetration of solid objects and “armor” (not truly and armor piercing round) 855 is garbage accuracy for any sort of precision work.
X vs M = I believe commercial market is sold “X” designation as they are technically for military contract (same production line) but did not meet quality standards in some way. I don’t know this as fact, and may perhaps be repeating myth or rumor.
5.56 and .223 are different ANSI / SAAMI pressure specs with 5.56 being the higher of the two. Technically, no you cannot run 5.56 in .223 but that may only in reality pertain to shitty old Remingtons sold through Dicks sporting goods. If you are looking at something chambered in .223 Wylde, 5.56 is perfect
I would do something like this but my MCX has no problem with steel case.
fshalor
NES Member
This actually hits the perfect NES balance. I'm thumbs up on this post. Knowing that Appraiser is a pistol dude makes part of the difference.
I feel @G4Y4HK was very honest in asking for boundary conditions and assumptions.
On other sites, asking about the difference between .223 and 5.56 is like banging everyone's wives, upperdeckering all toliets and the kitchen sink and throwing the keys on the roof.
This site has more... Diverse. Culture.
Range to target, type of target, twist of barrel, length of barrel. Those to me are required to select round choice, with the variables being grain, type of bullet, load, case.
Just like with .30-06, but with less options on the shelf at Walmart.
fshalor
NES Member
Interesting? Are these with good quality non-guchi bolts?
I buy mid level, and have had zero issues. I also headspace all my builds, disassemble, clean and lube all BCGs before initial use and after the anodizing gets scored in at a few mags deep.
I also carefully match buffer and spring and tube to gas length.
The only issue I had was with a "make do" $69.99 BCG and the WRONG setup. Carbine gas system plus rifle buffer spring and buffer. (Or it may have been opposite. Carbine spring setup and buffer and rifle or mid gas. I can't remember. )
After a few mags and some fail to feed after extract, I stopped and took apart the BCG. Wear I didn't expect on extractor. Stopped and went back to basics. Realized I'd don't things backwards and crossed up.
Bolt is sitting in a spares box.
These DI guns let you know pretty quick if they are out of balance.
I don’t know what it was. The headspace issue makes sense. But it would not shoot out of three different BCG’s.
Are they saying the longer throat increases case capacity?The longer technical explanation from Hornday: @appraiser
What is the difference between 5.56 NATO and 223 Rem ammunition? - Hornady Law Enforcement
Differences between the two are small but can have a large impact on performance, safety and weapon function. The first difference is the higher pressure level of the 5.56 NATO cartridge which runs at approximately 58,000 psi. A 223 Remington is loade...www.hornadyle.com
Or
Are they saying because of the longer throat “they” need to load more powder to get the velocity they need out of the loose NATO chamber.
I know its a beaten to death subject and all the same shit goes round and round.
You can load 223/556 to say a reduced load to achieve 2500 fps but if the bullet ogive jams the lands its going to be over pressure and thats what was happening with the older 223 rifles when 5.56 NATO became available to joe public.
If you test 223 ammo and 5.56 ammo loaded to specification in the same testing equipment it would have aprox the same pressures.
Ballistic Tools - Articles
Ammunition, reloading accessories, once fired 5.56 brass, once fired 223 brass, brass cleaning supplies, handloading supplies, shooting accessories.
ballistictools.com
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I believe they’re saying that a 5.56 chamber will result in lower chamber pressure for the same amount of powder, so you can add a little extra powder before reaching the same chamber pressure as a .223 chamber.
Edit: but of course that is dependent on not maxing out physical space with a bulky stick powder.
No case dimension difference.
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