School me on .223 and 5.56

Back to the OP
I"m not declaring expertise but the steel case is generally harder on the extractors, that may or may not matter to you, I suppose it depends on how much steel case you run.
M855 "green tip" is more expensive vs M193
M855 is 62grn vs M193 at 55grn

For plinking M193 55grn is going to be fine.
I can tell you from experience that steel case will break your extractors. I went through 2 of them in about 400 rounds plus multiple malfunctions with every magazine. I bought a 1000 rounds of it on the cheap and I was stubborn, I was determined to shoot all 1000 rounds. I have 600 rounds of steel case for sale.😂👍🏻
 
Do you have an AR10? Steel 308 will be fine through an M1a or bolt gun. Accuracy will probably suck.
Just a note of caution. Effect on rifle will depend on the quality of it's components. I ran steel cased .308 through an RPR, and EVERY time I did so, the extractor claw broke within a couple of dozen rounds. Suspecting the steel cases were the problem after the first couple of breakages, I switched back to brass. No issues with running more than a case through the rifle, then got lazy and wanted to use the steel cased ammo I had lying around. AGAIN, within 2 mags, the extractor claw broke. Fourth replacement claw has been running without a hitch on brass cases for more than 2 cases of ammo.

Certainly depends on the rifle, and the construction of it's parts. YMMV, but even in bolt guns, I've found steel cased ammo to be harder on the rifle. Probably nothing more mysterious than steel is harder than brass...

EDIT: sorry, @SgtHal75 beat me to it while I was typing. :)
 
I run steel .308. I don’t use it exclusively, but mix it in as range fodder. It’s fine and I have no issues. I also don’t have “obscure” steel, mainly Wolf in it’s various forms and some Silver bear. I’d be a little more cautious with some of the random ‘flavor of the week’ type stuff. AR’s are harsh on brass, not as harsh as the PTR 91 and it’s fluted chamber that convinced me to invest in steel .308. No point in trying to retrieve brass from that thing considering it was typically mangled and thrown into low earth orbit.
My M1a and savage bolt gun run steel Wolf 308 150g all day long👍🏻
 
Sellior&Bellot 5.56x45 ammo was steel cased right into the 1990's. I still have a full ammo can of it.

The U.S. military produced steel cased ammo for many years.

I disagree with "steel cased ammo leaving the market". If anything, I think you'll see more steel cased ammo on the market in the future as the prices of copper continue to rise. Ammo producers/manufacturers (regardless of country) are going to work with what they can obtain, what has the highest profit margin and the cost of all raw materials involved.

Bottom line in any of this discussion, If your rifle will not digest steel cased ammo, your rifle needs to be fixed.

Steel cased ammo gauges EXACTLY the same as brass ammo.


Every AR that I built was tested/broken in with half a case of steel cased Wolf ammo in both 55g and 62gr. I've never had an issue with any malfunction so far.
I shot roughly 400 steel case rounds in 4 different rifles. It broke the extractor off of a MilSpec bolt and a Lantac Bolt. There is absolutely nothing wrong with any of my rifles. It’s brass only for me. I got 600 rounds of steel case ammo 556 55g for sale😂
 
I was always under the belief that the reason you shouldn't fire 5.56 in 223 chambers is that the freebore is much less in 223 chambers as opposed to 5.56.....is this not the case?
'
 
In US, when you go to your favorite gun store or Cabelas/BassPro, you will see 5.56 and 223 sitting on the shelf next to each other. 99% of the time, ammo marked as "5.56" is the green tip kind(M855 in military lingo), while anything else marked as 223 is regular. Occasionally, you will see 5.56 M193 at the store but it is just a marketing gimmick! Outside of US, say Europe, they don't use the 223 monikers and use M193 instead when selling the same ammo. Yep, this all boils down to the frigging box labels!
My First Purchase of AR fud: 2 boxes at 619DW:
Federal-American-Eagle-5-56x45mm-NATO-XM193-55-Grain-FMJ-150-Rounds-XM193BK150-029465065225_image1__84562.1575580124.jpg

Plus another 11 months later.
P. S. Not For Sale.

Oh, and while M193 came out before the 5.56 spec, you’ll still see a couple hundred FPS bump in velocity from a factory .223 marked 55gr FMJ to a 5.56 marked M193. ...
⬆️Only exception in our inventory is some 56Gr. Golden Tiger.
 
⬆️Only exception in our inventory is some 56Gr. Golden Tiger.
Yeah, I wouldn’t put any money on the pressures or velocities of Russian or former-soviet bloc produced ammo. It’s a crap shoot.
 
I was always under the belief that the reason you shouldn't fire 5.56 in 223 chambers is that the freebore is much less in 223 chambers as opposed to 5.56.....is this not the case?
'
The free bore is different, but 5.56 pressures are still safe in a 223. If you happen to start seeing signs of pressure like ejector swipes, flattened primers, or popped primers, then stop using that particular 5.56 load, but I doubt you’ll see those signs when using most 5.56 in a 223 gun. I’d avoid M855A1 though.
 
Four months and you are going to slag a senior (to you) guy who asked a legitimate question? People can be enthusiasts without knowing a thing about certain guns.

You gotta know when to shit talk and when there's a legitimate quest for information.
agreed. I know shit about shotguns except where the shell goes. and I have one! and I dont even know what shells are good for what use.
 
I shot roughly 400 steel case rounds in 4 different rifles. It broke the extractor off of a MilSpec bolt and a Lantac Bolt. There is absolutely nothing wrong with any of my rifles. It’s brass only for me. I got 600 rounds of steel case ammo 556 55g for sale😂

In contrast, I've shot tens of thousands of steel cased rounds through a few different rifles of mine and have yet to break or wear out an extractor.

If any AR rifle is extracting any round so violently that it is breaking extractors, the gun is either way over gassed (something that is more common than you'd think), or it's under buffered (too light a spring or buffer) or has a rough and or short throated chamber causing the round to be excessively held in place in the chamber throat after firing.

The broken extractor issue was put to bed many years ago by several industry people and billions of rounds of steel cased ammunition in .223/5.56 have passed through millions of AR15s without issue. Also, anyone shooting an AR should have at minimum a spare extractor, ( or a complete spare bolt ) in their range bag just to stay in play.

Additionally, the difference in cost between steel cased ammo and brass ammo (at least for a couple of decades in the past) leaves a lot of money left over to replace any minor part that might anecdotally break.

Shoot what you like, but please do not put out false information when it has been long since debunked.[thumbsup]
 
Why and is that even available?
It is available for high prices, but all available is most likely stolen government property. I haven’t seen any enforcement with the numerous gunbroker sellers though. That said, aside from the questionable legality, it is also higher pressure than M855 and while it’s a good round, it’s not worth the civilian cost.

Mainly I was talking about the higher pressure than M855. M855A1 is potentially up to 5k psi higher than M855, which is up to 5k psi higher than .223 pressures. The Army tried to achieve 20” velocities from 14.5” barrels. They didn’t get there and also saw an increased maintenance schedule so I believe they lowered the pressure a little. But it’s still higher than M855. So while most 5.56 is fine in .223 chambers, I wouldn’t risk M855A1, which is probably within 8k psi of proof loads.
 
In contrast, I've shot tens of thousands of steel cased rounds through a few different rifles of mine and have yet to break or wear out an extractor.

If any AR rifle is extracting any round so violently that it is breaking extractors, the gun is either way over gassed (something that is more common than you'd think), or it's under buffered (too light a spring or buffer) or has a rough and or short throated chamber causing the round to be excessively held in place in the chamber throat after firing.

The broken extractor issue was put to bed many years ago by several industry people and billions of rounds of steel cased ammunition in .223/5.56 have passed through millions of AR15s without issue. Also, anyone shooting an AR should have at minimum a spare extractor, ( or a complete spare bolt ) in their range bag just to stay in play.

Additionally, the difference in cost between steel cased ammo and brass ammo (at least for a couple of decades in the past) leaves a lot of money left over to replace any minor part that might anecdotally break.

Shoot what you like, but please do not put out false information when it has been long since debunked.[thumbsup]
How am I putting out false info? I had major issues with steel and it seems other folks have as well. No need to go crazy boomer on me😬. If I had a over gassed or a buffer and spring issue I would have the same failure to extract with brass too. I could give 2 shits about years of industry testing with garbage ammo, I’m not/can’t running it in my rifles. As far as having extra extractors in my range kit…I did and had to use them because of the shit ammo you are propping up.😂👍🏻
 
How am I putting out false info? I had major issues with steel and it seems other folks have as well. No need to go crazy boomer on me😬. If I had a over gassed or a buffer and spring issue I would have the same failure to extract with brass too. I could give 2 shits about years of industry testing with garbage ammo, I’m not/can’t running it in my rifles. As far as having extra extractors in my range kit…I did and had to use them because of the shit ammo you are propping up.😂👍🏻
Not going crazy on you, but this issue has been beat to death a thousand times on every gun board in the universe.

Firstly, I think you lack some knowledge as to how the AR functions and how different parameters affect their operation.

Let's put this issue into perspective, shall we?

Millions upon millions (possibly billions) of rounds of steel cased .223/5.56 ammo have arrived on our shores and have been sold to the public.

Millions of AR owners have used millions and millions of those rounds successfully over the course of the past 20+ years with a very, very small minority of issues seen by a few.

The cost/savings incurred by using the less expensive steel cased ammo has allowed more people to train and shoot more ammo, dollar for dollar. I seem to recall about a $100.00 savings per case between steel and brass. That $100.00 per case savings buys a lot of extractors (even though they'll unlikely ever be needed).

Those issues encountered by the very few can and are usually traced to an issue with the rifle.....NOT the ammunition.......sorry, that is just the fact of the matter.
The AR rifle is just a mechanical device and given the fact that the vast and overwhelming majority of them produced (I'd say 99.8%) can digest steel cased ammo speaks volumes to the viability and usefulness and value of steel cased ammo.

The goal posts changed time and again.

First it was "The lacquer coating is melting off and sticking up the chamber" That was disproven. (Although the industry changed its coating which was a marketing thing not due to any defect in the lacquer coating. I recall the poly coating was cheaper so it was a win win for the manufacturers.

Then it was "The Poly Coating was melting off and sticking up the chamber" That was disproven. There are videos of people using a torch on the poly coating trying to melt it off ( I've done the experiment myself.....it doesn't melt).

Then it was "The steel will wear out your chamber" That was disproven. There is no contact steel to steel, it couldn't possibly wear the chamber.....the ammo is coated remember?

Then it was "The steel case will wear or break your extractor" That has been disproven a million times by the mere fact of so many people using the steel cased ammo without breaking their extractors.

The guns that do break extractors have other issues and are either over gassed, under buffered (too light of a buffer spring or too light weight of a buffer, or their chamber dimensions are out of spec......you can bet the farm on it.
Buy some gauges or send the rifle to a gunsmith that has gauges and have it gone through.

Then it was "The steel cased stuff is "underpowered".....Really??? compared to WHAT? That statement could be made about any four different brands of ammo in any caliber.
Pick four different mnufacturers and take a box of each through a chronograph. They all differ to some degree.

Bottom line is,,,,,,you shoot what you think you need to shoot in your rifle, but do not state that steel cased ammo breaks extractors.....it's underpowered remember?
 
Yeah, but in this day and age, and on this particular forum, the caliber definitely goes with the AR platform, discussion-wise. And if I'm not into ARs, then that probably means I AM into AKs or FALs (both, actually), meaning I'm much more interested in 7.62 across the board. The only reason I've even started to get a little bit smart about pew-pew rounds lately is because I now own a Daewoo and a 1970s AR, meaning the difference between 1:12 and 1:7 suddenly matters to me.

On the FAL side, there's the same sort of discussion concerning .308 and 7.62 NATO. So it's not a foreign concept. But I do think that being a dick about peoples' ignorance about 5.56 and claiming that means they know nothing about firearms? That's not kosher, and he deserved to get slapped down for that.

In the end he may have been right... Op didn't even ask one follow up question.. In this day and age of Google this basic question is kinda weird and suspect... I even linked the definitive source for the info he was looking for in less time that it took him to create this thread.. Now if someone says " Any diff in POI between certain brands ? " Sure, that is valid and probably easier to ask opinions here... What OP did was basically ask for the forum to explain the difference between Chevy and a Ford. Appraiser is not a noob and comes across as a SME in 100's of threads here, yet can't figure out Google lol
 
I thank everyone who responded.

I am truly ignorant when it comes to the AR platform in .223 and 5.56

I read every response and as always am combining all the different opinions trying to find the middle ground.

I found the Venn diagram very interesting

Yes I could have gone out on the internet and looked at opinions from people I don't know, but over the last 14 years I have found NES to be a wealth of knowledge in a small group, and I trust your opinions more than some Joe with a website spewing out his or her version of things.

again, thanks for the education.
 
Good resource and can explain it far more eloquently than I can - 5.56 vs .223: What's the Difference? Does it Matter? - The Truth About Guns
Here's a totally different far longer article from 2012
(with precisely the same URL basename):


It's so long that when you're done,
you'll forget what your question was!
 
Not going crazy on you, but this issue has been beat to death a thousand times on every gun board in the universe.

Firstly, I think you lack some knowledge as to how the AR functions and how different parameters affect their operation.

Let's put this issue into perspective, shall we?

Millions upon millions (possibly billions) of rounds of steel cased .223/5.56 ammo have arrived on our shores and have been sold to the public.

Millions of AR owners have used millions and millions of those rounds successfully over the course of the past 20+ years with a very, very small minority of issues seen by a few.

The cost/savings incurred by using the less expensive steel cased ammo has allowed more people to train and shoot more ammo, dollar for dollar. I seem to recall about a $100.00 savings per case between steel and brass. That $100.00 per case savings buys a lot of extractors (even though they'll unlikely ever be needed).

Those issues encountered by the very few can and are usually traced to an issue with the rifle.....NOT the ammunition.......sorry, that is just the fact of the matter.
The AR rifle is just a mechanical device and given the fact that the vast and overwhelming majority of them produced (I'd say 99.8%) can digest steel cased ammo speaks volumes to the viability and usefulness and value of steel cased ammo.

The goal posts changed time and again.

First it was "The lacquer coating is melting off and sticking up the chamber" That was disproven. (Although the industry changed its coating which was a marketing thing not due to any defect in the lacquer coating. I recall the poly coating was cheaper so it was a win win for the manufacturers.

Then it was "The Poly Coating was melting off and sticking up the chamber" That was disproven. There are videos of people using a torch on the poly coating trying to melt it off ( I've done the experiment myself.....it doesn't melt).

Then it was "The steel will wear out your chamber" That was disproven. There is no contact steel to steel, it couldn't possibly wear the chamber.....the ammo is coated remember?

Then it was "The steel case will wear or break your extractor" That has been disproven a million times by the mere fact of so many people using the steel cased ammo without breaking their extractors.

The guns that do break extractors have other issues and are either over gassed, under buffered (too light of a buffer spring or too light weight of a buffer, or their chamber dimensions are out of spec......you can bet the farm on it.
Buy some gauges or send the rifle to a gunsmith that has gauges and have it gone through.

Then it was "The steel cased stuff is "underpowered".....Really??? compared to WHAT? That statement could be made about any four different brands of ammo in any caliber.
Pick four different mnufacturers and take a box of each through a chronograph. They all differ to some degree.

Bottom line is,,,,,,you shoot what you think you need to shoot in your rifle, but do not state that steel cased ammo breaks extractors.....it's underpowered remember?
My friend, enjoy your steel cased ammo!
 
Sellior&Bellot 5.56x45 ammo was steel cased right into the 1990's. I still have a full ammo can of it.

The U.S. military produced steel cased ammo for many years.

I disagree with "steel cased ammo leaving the market". If anything, I think you'll see more steel cased ammo on the market in the future as the prices of copper continue to rise. Ammo producers/manufacturers (regardless of country) are going to work with what they can obtain, what has the highest profit margin and the cost of all raw materials involved.

Bottom line in any of this discussion, If your rifle will not digest steel cased ammo, your rifle needs to be fixed.

Steel cased ammo gauges EXACTLY the same as brass ammo.


Every AR that I built was tested/broken in with half a case of steel cased Wolf ammo in both 55g and 62gr. I've never had an issue with any malfunction so far.
I have 2 retired armorers one from the army the other from marines they where both in for the tail end of the M1a and many years through the AR variant
The both say the same thing
If it pukes on steel cased ammo theres something wrong.

During the ammo shortage after Sandy I even reloaded steel case ammo
I have also run cast in the AR

Its all part of the game
 
I can tell you from experience that steel case will break your extractors. I went through 2 of them in about 400 rounds plus multiple malfunctions with every magazine. I bought a 1000 rounds of it on the cheap and I was stubborn, I was determined to shoot all 1000 rounds. I have 600 rounds of steel case for sale.😂👍🏻
How can you feel good about selling the gun wrecking shit! Lol

What gun and what brand extractor…
 
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