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SBR stuff
- Thread starter Shakeyfly
- Start date
Varmint
NES Member
Yeah, i understand that, but who with a trust is going to stop acquiring NFA items?
Well, another option, although an a bit of a PITA, is to amend your trust to remove trustees when you submit your trust for a transfer, and then amend your trust to add them back in after the paperwork is submitted. Then just you are on the hook for photos/prints.
There's nothing that requires you to "lock down" your trust at any point in the process.
I e-filed a Form 1 last week. Do I need to include a copy of my LTC? My guess is no, but since its my first time I guess I'm just curious. I've included the Trust Agreement, Trust Certification and my assignment page that has my lower included in it.
Definitely include LTCs for all Mass trustees. The certification of trust should not be included with your application. It might not matter, but it may very well confuse the examiner.
I trust you on this, but it's contrary to the advice given in almost every single "what should I include with my form 1?" post I've come across on the interwebs.
Hmmmm.... is there something from the ATF making that official?
-- ETA: Question is specifically whether or not to include the certificate of trust.
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I agree it's redundant and probably unnecessary. There are a few reports out there of examiners (for whatever reason) requesting them so people started just including them as a "better safe than sorry" measure.
In the past, NFA Branch only required the Certification of Trust, which is a document that (in effect) was an attestation of the trust's existence and certain key details. As an increasing number of applicants began using trusts, NFA Branch began requiring (copies of) the Declaration and all related schedules, and at least at one point, was requiring a cursory review by attorneys from ATF Legal Division to confirm that the trust was valid under state law. (Appropriately, applications by invalid trusts would be returned. In at least some instances, ATF would include information about why the trust was invalid.
I can't speak for the rest of the internet, but having advised a significant number of clients on the submission of their trusts for Forms 1, and 4, I have always advised to exclude the certification of trust and I have never heard of an examiner delaying an application for want of a certification of trust. A certification of trust is redundant if you are providing the trust agreement.
I actually heard from a client recently who, against my advice, provided the certification of trust instead of the trust agreement, and the examiner requested the trust agreement.
A certification is essentially a boiled down version of the trust that you can show to third parties to evidence the existence of the trust and to prove that you are authorized to act on behalf of the trust. For NFA trusts, certificates/certifications of trust are useful for setting up a trust bank account, but not much else.
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Not unless the successor trustee presently has rights to use the NFA items held by the trust. If those rights are subject to a condition, such as the death or incapacitation of the other acting trustees, then there is no need to provide the LTC for that person.
You don't beat the new rules by establishing a trust before 13 Jul; you beat the new rules by filing a Form 1/Form 4 before 13 Jul. When you set up your trust isn't relevant.
Forms filed by 13 Jul are subject to the current rules; Forms filed after 13 Jul are subject to the new rules. It's that simple.
Question for you folks...so i just got a reply of "disapproved" for my Form 1. It states the model is incorrect though I selected Ar-15 for my SBR. What did I mess up here? Do I need to go through the process from the start again to include fingerprints?
ReluctantDecoy
NES Member
There are various areas where one could potentially botch the application. Kind of hard to say without knowing how you filled it out vs what you actually have vs what you were trying to do. IE. Not enough info to come to any conclusions. Easiest solution would be to post a redacted copy of your app and rejection letter. Take off all identifying information (name/address/photo/etc) and go from there. I'm sure this forum would point you in the right direction. I've successfully completed two now after reading up on this forum.
johnnymac101
NES Member
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I followed this guy's instructions (from recommendations on this site) could your problem be found at the 10:45-13:00 minute mark?
View: https://youtu.be/8Ta-dKsczck?t=645
View: https://youtu.be/8Ta-dKsczck?t=645
