SBR OR TAVOR?

[dcmdon]

One other thing with the Meprolight is that if you are like me and tend to keep things, the tritium is done in about 10 years. You can send it in to get it replaced, for about the cost of another sight.

I've still got an Aimpoint 2000 that I bought in 1989 and it still works great on top of a Ruger Mk II.

- - - Updated - - -

I've also given up on dot sights on most of my ARs. The new generation of 1.5-4 scopes designed for hunting dangerous game, and remarketed as "Tactical" after the 3 gunners discovered them, can do nearly everything a dot sight can do and a whole lot more.

 

[Rate_of_Twist]

One other thing with the Meprolight is that if you are like me and tend to keep things, the tritium is done in about 10 years. You can send it in to get it replaced, for about the cost of another sight.

I've still got an Aimpoint 2000 that I bought in 1989 and it still works great on top of a Ruger Mk II.

- - - Updated - - -

I've also given up on dot sights on most of my ARs. The new generation of 1.5-4 scopes designed for hunting dangerous game, and remarketed as "Tactical" after the 3 gunners discovered them, can do nearly everything a dot sight can do and a whole lot more.

I really like my leupold 1.5-4, but I find it slower up close ( within 5-10 yards ).

 

[ntomsw]

My buddy bought a Mepro and he loves it. I shot it last summer when I visited him, and it was really nice.

I have an Aimpoint pro on one of my AR's. I like the dot by itself. Not as much clutter in the window.

 

[dcmdon]

I really like my leupold 1.5-4, but I find it slower up close ( within 5-10 yards ).

At that distance you can pretty much just sight over the top of the rifle. I wouldn't have believed it, but we did a bunch of drills doing just that in a carbine class I took a couple of years ago. After a while, pretty much everybody got the hang of it. Accuracy wasn't as good as with a dot, but the shots tended to string vertically, which in a human is just fine.

I try to practice this every once in a while.

 

[Rate_of_Twist]

At that distance you can pretty much just sight over the top of the rifle. I wouldn't have believed it, but we did a bunch of drills doing just that in a carbine class I took a couple of years ago. Accuracy wasn't as good as with a dot, but the shots tended to string vertically, which in a human is just fine.

I guess I could also add a rmr or similar micro dot

 

[Rate_of_Twist]

Ending up deciding on a Eotech 556. After trying a few I just dont like the single dot, and prefer the multi use reticle. I made the choice to go with the 556 for the side buttons, NV settings and the extended battery life.

The only problem is now I have a sight that has NV settings and no NV..... This is going to be one damn expensive rifle by the time Im done

 

[Artifact]

Ending up deciding on a Eotech 556. After trying a few I just dont like the single dot, and prefer the multi use reticle. I made the choice to go with the 556 for the side buttons, NV settings and the extended battery life.

The only problem is now I have a sight that has NV settings and no NV..... This is going to be one damn expensive rifle by the time Im done

NVGs are a totally different ball game, lower/mid priced models will cost you more than the entire rifle and optics you already have.

NV optics are one of those tools that you wish you had when needed. I tell people all the time that instead of having 5 ARs and 10 handguns, have 2 ARs and 3 handguns and NVGs.

 

[Rate_of_Twist]

NVGs are a totally different ball game, lower/mid priced models will cost you more than the entire rifle and optics you already have.

NV optics are one of those tools that you wish you had when needed. I tell people all the time that instead of having 5 ARs and 10 handguns, have 2 ARs and 3 handguns and NVGs.

Yes, I see that.

The Tavor in general is exactly my approach to what you have said..... I owned 40+ guns, only 3 of them I shot.... They have all been ( or are being ) sold. Paying for my land up north and keeping ( or buying ) purpose built setups that I will use.

NV will require a substantial amount of research and savings, but I purchased the eotech 556 with the capability for a reason

 

[crazymjb]

Honestly if you go the NV route you will more than likely want the NV mounted to a helmet/headband and IR lasers on your gat piece.

Mike

Sent from my cell phone with a tiny keyboard and large thumbs...

 

[DarthRevan]

I cant wait to get through UML so I can start buying more of this shit with real job money...

 

[crazymjb]

I cant wait to get through UML so I can start buying more of this shit with real job money...

Lol... That's what I said about UMass Amherst... now I'm applying to law schools... you know, to get that money to buy cool stuff hahaha

Honestly I'm rooting more for my fiance to get into medical school so I can be a stay at home gun-builder/shooter/racecardriver/dad.

Mike

 

[dlarge]

Lol... That's what I said about UMass Amherst... now I'm applying to law schools... you know, to get that money to buy cool stuff hahaha

Honestly I'm rooting more for my fiance to get into medical school so I can be a stay at home gun-builder/shooter/racecardriver/dad.

Mike

I'm hoping that my fiance will go the PA route so I can do the same. High five!

 

[crazymjb]

I'd be all about being a stay at home parent and working part time. I guess some guys get uncomfortable with that.... not me, as long as my wife buys me pretty much whatever I want.

Mike

 

[Rate_of_Twist]

I cant wait to get through UML so I can start buying more of this shit with real job money...

My brother graduates UML next year and says the same thing too... I keep telling him, be prepared to make "restaurant waiter money".

 

[Boomer41]

The only reason for having an SBR is to make it more manouverable in tight spaces. BUT the short barrel reduces muzzle energy big time AND you need a tax stamp. Why the hell would you do that when you can have a full 16" barrel (and no tax stamp) in the same overall length??
Anyone who says that bullpups are stupid has probably never fired one.

 

[Rate_of_Twist]

The only reason for having an SBR is to make it more manouverable in tight spaces. BUT the short barrel reduces muzzle energy big time AND you need a tax stamp. Why the hell would you do that when you can have a full 16" barrel (and no tax stamp) in the same overall length??
Anyone who says that bullpups are stupid has probably never fired one.

7 years ago me agrees completely… Flash forward to today me and the Tavor is long gone and I have multiple SBRs and Pistol ARs. I don’t think a Tavor or any bullpup is stupid, but I have no burning desire to have one in place of my short barrel ARs

 

[PappyM3]

The only reason for having an SBR is to make it more manouverable in tight spaces. BUT the short barrel reduces muzzle energy big time AND you need a tax stamp. Why the hell would you do that when you can have a full 16" barrel (and no tax stamp) in the same overall length??
Anyone who says that bullpups are stupid has probably never fired one.

Totally. That’s why all the special operations units from around the world, who can pick what they want, choose bullpups over short barrel AR platforms. Especially in those countries where the conventional forces have bullpups.

… oh wait.

I will concede that with US laws, a bullpup makes more sense for a civilian who wants a short package without a tax stamp. But most of the country can use pistol braces which makes that consideration moot, except for Massachusetts.

 

[mav]

The only reason for having an SBR is to make it more manouverable in tight spaces. BUT the short barrel reduces muzzle energy big time AND you need a tax stamp. Why the hell would you do that when you can have a full 16" barrel (and no tax stamp) in the same overall length??
Anyone who says that bullpups are stupid has probably never fired one.

I have 20" (7.62), 16" (5.56) an SBR (9mm) and a bullpup (5.56). Best of all worlds. Who doesn't love freedom of choice?

As an aside, why a bullpup vs. an SBR given the current landscape in MA? I can take my bullpup across state lines without asking the King's Agents permission...

 

[dcmdon]

7 years ago me agrees completely… Flash forward to today me and the Tavor is long gone and I have multiple SBRs and Pistol ARs. I don’t think a Tavor or any bullpup is stupid, but I have no burning desire to have one in place of my short barrel ARs

That's because terminal ballistics isn't really important for most of us most of the time. And we can use HP ammo.

 

[Rate_of_Twist]

That's because terminal ballistics isn't really important for most of us most of the time. And we can use HP ammo.

The later applies to me. 62 grain Barnes TSX do just fine, even out of 7.5” into gel (20”+ and 2300fps)

 

[92G]

7 years ago me agrees completely… Flash forward to today me and the Tavor is long gone and I have multiple SBRs and Pistol ARs. I don’t think a Tavor or any bullpup is stupid, but I have no burning desire to have one in place of my short barrel ARs

With regards to rifle preferences I’m polar opposite. i setup a 11.5” PWS Mk111 that is an excellent short barrel suppressor host and thought I’d love it. However the loss in velocity is annoying so I almost exclusively shoot my 16” setups or a lightweight Mk12 suppressed. Of course w the right ammo like Mk262 the shorter barrel can be plenty effective, but I can’t get over the velocity difference with a 16” or longer barrel.

nowadays my preferred setup is anything w rifle length gas system to afford longest possible dwell time and thus minimal port pop. I’m currently building an upper with a criterion barrel - 16” rifle length gas - direct thread suppressor so it will always have enough pressure to cycle.

i still have a tavor SAR and X95 but they never get to range, mostly because I like to shoot prone and bullpups are suboptimal for prone shooting. They are also finicky when suppressed and seem to only work well with low back pressure cans like the OSS helix.

 

[Rate_of_Twist]

With regards to rifle preferences I’m polar opposite. i setup a 11.5” PWS Mk111 that is an excellent short barrel suppressor host and thought I’d love it. However the loss in velocity is annoying so I almost exclusively shoot my 16” setups or a lightweight Mk12 suppressed. Of course w the right ammo like Mk262 the shorter barrel can be plenty effective, but I can’t get over the velocity difference with a 16” or longer barrel.

nowadays my preferred setup is anything w rifle length gas system to afford longest possible dwell time and thus minimal port pop. I’m currently building an upper with a criterion barrel - 16” rifle length gas - direct thread suppressor so it will always have enough pressure to cycle.

i still have a tavor SAR and X95 but they never get to range, mostly because I like to shoot prone and bullpups are suboptimal for prone shooting. They are also finicky when suppressed and seem to only work well with low back pressure cans like the OSS helix.

No doubt, longer is better, but its always a compromise. I have 223/5.56 in barrel lengths from 7.5" -20" and I dont expect my 7.5 do be effective with xm193 just like I wouldnt carry blazer brass in my P365. Additionally, I wouldnt expect a 7.5" or 10.5" to perform at 100 yards so thats not what the shorter barrel AR pistols are built for.

 

[PappyM3]

No doubt, longer is better, but its always a compromise. I have 223/5.56 in barrel lengths from 7.5" -20" and I dont expect my 7.5 do be effective with xm193 just like I wouldnt carry blazer brass in my P365. Additionally, I wouldnt expect a 7.5" or 10.5" to perform at 100 yards so thats not what the shorter barrel AR pistols are built for.

So true. I frequently bring up the question of why people are depending on FMJ for defensive use when good defensive rifle loads exist.

It’s really amazing what modern bullets can do for 5.56 SBRs. Your 10.5” is easily a 200 yard gun with reliable and good expansion over the entire distance with 62gr TSX.

I put this little chart together with muzzle velocities aggregated and averaged from around the net and also with terminal ballistic reports from gel tests and hunting trips. Some muzzle velocities are interpolated and some are extrapolated when data were not available. The only thing that is off I think is that the yellow area for 77 TMK is actually much more reliable fragmentation than “minimal upset”. I got additional terminal reports showing effectiveness at those lower velocities, so you can consider most of the 77 TMK yellow to actually be green. I need to update this.