SBR and "other" firearm question

[bdb]

So hypothetically speaking if someone owned a Delta Level Defense model CT4-2A which actually has ATF variance documentation that makes it legally an "other" firearm. Their website has all the details and my understanding is the origin of the firearm was the market it certain states who have issues with the AWB and with AR pistols. So as an "other" it is legally neither a pistol or a rifle. It does come from the factory with a pistol brace, 10" or so barrel (I don't remember exact length) but it is is shorter that 16. They come without a pinned brake and also has an adjustable stock. All legal per AWB laws in MA given it's an "other" firearm. At least that is now I understand it.

So, all that said, with the recent ATF ruling on pistol braces, would it be a good idea for someone with one of these firearms to apply for the SBR stamp? Not really sure what to advise my friend how to proceed. Is the fact that the ATF considers it a "other" have any affect on the ATF pistol brace ruling? Just curious to get some thoughts from someone with more legal knowledge in this area. And yes, I get it that my buddy should talk to a lawyer and it likely will end up that way but I wanted to do a little digging.

 

[steve8140]

Your issue isn’t a federal one, it’s a state of MA issue.

Semi-auto with detachable magazine puts it in AWB territory. The reason why AR pistols are ok in MA is strictly because they have a pinned magazine. That alone removes it from the AWB rules and allows you to have all the evil features.

Now it has features such as the the telescoping stock or brace. The muzzle device isn’t pinned and welded or silver solder, (technically MA never adopted a proper way to pin and weld and the law just says “permanent”. Some people say red loctite is ok but only you can decide that).

The website says no to MA and CA.

Do you have a FFL that will transfer it? That s a big piece of the puzzle.

 

[drgrant]

So hypothetically speaking if someone owned a Delta Level Defense model CT4-2A which actually has ATF variance documentation that makes it legally an "other" firearm. Their website has all the details and my understanding is the origin of the firearm was the market it certain states who have issues with the AWB and with AR pistols. So as an "other" it is legally neither a pistol or a rifle. It does come from the factory with a pistol brace, 10" or so barrel (I don't remember exact length) but it is is shorter that 16. They come without a pinned brake and also has an adjustable stock. All legal per AWB laws in MA given it's an "other" firearm. At least that is now I understand it.

So, all that said, with the recent ATF ruling on pistol braces, would it be a good idea for someone with one of these firearms to apply for the SBR stamp? Not really sure what to advise my friend how to proceed. Is the fact that the ATF considers it a "other" have any affect on the ATF pistol brace ruling? Just curious to get some thoughts from someone with more legal knowledge in this area. And yes, I get it that my buddy should talk to a lawyer and it likely will end up that way but I wanted to do a little digging.

The " other" wall hack doesn't work in Mass that's a weird Connecticut thing that doesn't apply here. Don't try to apply other states AWB interps to MA, they don't work, at least not on paper.

 

[drgrant]

@bdb also to be more specific I am referring to Mass's actual AWB not heely-ban 2016 garbage or any of her interpretive dance... that's a whole other sewer of garbage that nobody should be too serious about.

 

[bdb]

I appreciate the feedback fellas.

Since the "firearm" my friend has is NOT assembled (and never has been as a complete firearm), I would assume one course of action could be to pin the brake, replace a pistol brace with a pinned (or non adjustable) stock and then SBR it it before assembled and then it's just like any other SBR in MA. That should cover all the bases for MA and the Fed's right?

On a purely curiosity perspective how does the MA AWB apply to something that is an "other" by federal definition? Is it just that MA will not not recognize an "other" and places is it into the rifle or pistol bucket depending on features?

I know the below is not an actual legal cite but it's a summary. If the firearm is legally NOT a pistol, a rifle or a shotgun (per the feds) where do they jam you up in MA, other than the obvious, "good luck in MA courts with any firearm issue". Curiosity just has the better of me on this one as it's outside of my normal firearms laws research.

MA AWB summary (best I could find posted):
Semi-automatic rifles manufactured after 9/13/1994 with detachable magazines and two or more of the following features:

Folding or telescoping stock ​

Pistol grip ​

Bayonet mount ​

Flash hider or threaded barrel designed to accommodate one​

Grenade launcher​

​

Semi-automatic pistols manufactured after 9/13/1994 with detachable magazines and two or more of the following:

Magazine that attaches outside the pistol grip ​

Threaded barrel to attach barrel extender, flash suppressor, handgrip, or suppressor​

Barrel shroud safety feature that prevents burns to the operator​

Unloaded weight of 50 oz (1.4 kg) or more​

A semi-automatic version of a fully automatic firearm​

Semi-automatic shotguns with two or more of the following features:

Folding or telescoping stock​

Pistol grip​

Detachable magazine​

 

[MAJoe]

Assembled isn’t really the biggest issue. I wouldn’t want all those parts sitting at home, especially the short barrel.

 

[Drix]

The sbr thing still looming? Haven't heard much motion.

Seems dumb that if you own a glock and a roni you need to file a stamp and then tell the ATF every time you cross into another free state.

 

[drgrant]

On a purely curiosity perspective how does the MA AWB apply to something that is an "other" by federal definition? Is it just that MA will not not recognize an "other" and places is it into the rifle or pistol bucket depending on features?

Yes... again.... "Other" doesn't mean anything special under mass law. MA doesn't care what is on your 4473 form. Any DA in mass is just going to call that a "firearm" in mass (as it has a barrel under 16 inches) and at least attempt to apply the MA AWB garbage for "assault pistols" against it.

The only reason that hack works in CT is because CT defines handguns bizzarely (like, gun with barrel under 12in or something) and defines rifles as something else, so in CT that gun is in a "weird place/no mans land" legally, and SFLU actually acknowledges that distinction as such.

 

[bdb]

Yes... again.... "Other" doesn't mean anything special under mass law. MA doesn't care what is on your 4473 form. Any DA in mass is just going to call that a "firearm" in mass (as it has a barrel under 16 inches) and at least attempt to apply the MA AWB garbage for "assault pistols" against it.

The only reason that hack works in CT is because CT defines handguns bizzarely (like, gun with barrel under 12in or something) and defines rifles as something else, so in CT that gun is in a "weird place/no mans land" legally, and SFLU actually acknowledges that distinction as such.

Makes sense. Well as much sense as anything else in the state gun laws landscape I guess.

 

[drgrant]

Makes sense. Well as much sense as anything else in the state gun laws landscape I guess.

Mass still has a lot of stupidity and gaps in its laws, but nothing I can see that'd make this work.

 

[Alex9661]

Assembled isn’t really the biggest issue. I wouldn’t want all those parts sitting at home, especially the short barrel.

Are you comfortable with having a 16in barrel rifle and a hacksaw at home?

 

[VTski4x4]

Mass still has a lot of stupidity and gaps in its laws, but nothing I can see that'd make this work.

According to many FFLs here (ones that figured out many "hacks") it's perfectly legal as long as you don't remove the VFG from it. They're absolutely being sold in MA.