Sanity check

Darksideblues42

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Stepson lives in NC. Tweakers just moved in down the street from him. He decided he needs a firearm for his wife to have on hand just in case.

He was out looking, found something they liked (a Smith and Wesson 6906), I said I would pay for it as a gift for their birthdays (3 days apart)

He called me from the shop to tell me the price, and the shop keeper told my stepson that if I gave him money for a firearm it was a straw purchase, even if stepson fills out the paperwork, keeps it for his household, etc. Because it was my money, that makes it a straw purchase.

I am 99% sure the clerk was full of it, but with the alphabet soup agencies making stuff up as they go along, I am just looking for an NES sanity check.

Thanks!
 

Reptile

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That does not sound right.

If my dad gives me $800 for my birthday, I can't use that money for a gun for myself?

What if I charge the gun on my credit card and cash the birthday check 30 days later?

I bet a portion of the money I have is from illegal heroin sales.

Yet, I may have received some of that money from change I got from the cashier at Wal Mart.
 

TLB

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Probably just scared the worker with the odd situation. Might have thought you were PP and stepson buying for you. Better to step outside "to think about it" or text you the price, I would think.
 

Reptile

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Probably just scared the worker with the odd situation. Might have thought you were PP and stepson buying for you. Better to step outside "to think about it" or text you the price, I would think.
He was not even there with his son.

OP is in another state.

Son told shop keeper that his dad is giving him money as a present to buy the gun.

I think anyway.
 

SERE

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Tinkermatic

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While you’re in the right, I’m sure the situation just spooked the clerk. He doesn’t know if your son is telling the truth. For all he knows you just got out of jail, want a piece for retribution and are sitting in a car a block away waiting for the handoff.
Could you send your son a check in the mail? Eliminate the third party situation?
 

VetteGirlMA

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Stepson lives in NC. Tweakers just moved in down the street from him. He decided he needs a firearm for his wife to have on hand just in case.

He was out looking, found something they liked (a Smith and Wesson 6906), I said I would pay for it as a gift for their birthdays (3 days apart)

He called me from the shop to tell me the price, and the shop keeper told my stepson that if I gave him money for a firearm it was a straw purchase, even if stepson fills out the paperwork, keeps it for his household, etc. Because it was my money, that makes it a straw purchase.

I am 99% sure the clerk was full of it, but with the alphabet soup agencies making stuff up as they go along, I am just looking for an NES sanity check.

Thanks!
I ran into a similar situation when I was trying to buy a rifle at Cabelas in Hudson. I was wearing pants that had no pockets on them, so I gave a friend my wad of cash to hold. When my friend pulls the money from her pockets to give to me the cashier stopped the transaction and declared that I was making a straw purchase. The woman operating the register literally didn't want to listen to me when I said it was my money and I had no pockets. So they made my friend actually leave the store, walk back in, buy a gift certificate in the amount of the gun, give me the gift certificate and then I paid for the gun with the gift card. Needless to say I left the store thinking to myself that we are doomed as a species.
 

EJFudd

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He called me from the shop to tell me the price, and the shop keeper told my stepson that if I gave him money for a firearm it was a straw purchase...
There was your stepson's mistake right there... i.e., making it LOOK AND SOUND like a possible straw purchase. Bad policy making the phone call to you from inside the shop in the presence of the clerk. Depending on exactly what was said and what he overheard, I can see the clerk misunderstanding and questioning the sale.

But as you describe it, it was not going to be a straw purchase.
 

LittleCalm

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Can’t say I blame the clerk. That’s an odd situation for the clerk to be in. Son should pick out what he wants and pay for it. You give him a money gift before or after. But having the clerk take your money directly is going to make for an uncomfortable situation.
 

Darksideblues42

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There was your stepson's mistake right there... i.e., making it LOOK AND SOUND like a possible straw purchase. Bad policy making the phone call to you from inside the shop in the presence of the clerk. Depending on exactly what was said and what he overheard, I can see the clerk misunderstanding and questioning the sale.

But as you describe it, it was not going to be a straw purchase.
I guess to me (and to stepson) that old adage of "You have nothing to worry about if you have nothing to hide" comes into play.

We were not doing anything nefarious, he called me because I have a 659 and a 6906 already, and he wanted to know if there were any gotchas to look out for.

He lives near Asheville, which is more or less Austin, TX or Cambridge Light. SUPER liberal city. Clerk is early 20's skinny jean wearing hipster dude.

I will be down there next weekend and will have a chat with the manager and see what's up.
 

drgrant

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Rubbish. Utter nonsense. Straw purchases involve the non-buyer receiving the gun, not paying for the gun.
Not true at all, money flow matters. OP basically set off the shop’s “weird shit possible straw” detector. Anytime you have cash flowing -directly- from another party to buy a gun this seta off alarm bells everywhere.
 

EJFudd

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I will be down there next weekend and will have a chat with the manager and see what's up.
Just don't make it worse. [laugh] How about just sending your stepson the money and let him go and do the deal on his own. That assumes you want him to own that particular gun from that particular shop.
 

drgrant

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I guess to me (and to stepson) that old adage of "You have nothing to worry about if you have nothing to hide" comes into play.

We were not doing anything nefarious,
None of this matters - I predict two possible outcomes-

70%chance they won’t sell him anything
30% chance the owner/manager suggests a method that breaks up the money flow enough to make it comfortable for them legally.

Top 10 gun shop buyers etiquette rule wrt gun shops, if you’re borrowing money to buy something, or doing anything like that which even so much as grazes a straw, (like passing cash between each other in the store) any discussion/doing of this belongs outside of the shop/dealer. Most dealers don’t operate from a “theres probably nothing to worry about” posture....
 

drgrant

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Is it legal for gunshops to sell gift certificates ?? If so, whats the difference ???
Walking into a gun shop and buying a gift certificate usually doesn't have any kind of specificity attached to it. Think "nuanced degrees of separation" wrt straw purchases. It's all completely f***ing insane, but it matters wrt enforcement types....
 
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Rubbish. Utter nonsense. Straw purchases involve the non-buyer receiving the gun, not paying for the gun.
Exactly. I had the same exact problem, but in reverse. Mom wanted to buy a Mosin for my 18th birthday. Clerk insisted that it would be much easier for her to just give me the money rather than ordering it herself and giving as a gift.

This shop clerk is a scrub. Caution is well and good, but this is ridiculous. Straw purchase is not a difficult concept to understand.
 

drgrant

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Exactly. I had the same exact problem, but in reverse. Mom wanted to buy a Mosin for my 18th birthday. Clerk insisted that it would be much easier for her to just give me the money rather than ordering it herself and giving as a gift.

This shop clerk is a scrub. Caution is well and good, but this is ridiculous. Straw purchase is not a difficult concept to understand.
Lol If I was the clerk I would have blocked it too, that's textbook straw behaviors the op's stepson pulled in his post. The difference is I would have tried to clear it with management if I thought it was likely legit and just someone being retarded.

I disagree that's it's "not a difficult concept". If I gave 100 gun owners a straw person test 80 of them would probably fail it. It's VERY f***ey and nuanced.

-Mike
 

BUMPA01603

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I would find a different LGS, f*ck 'em! There has to be a competitor nearby? Just make sure they don't do the same thing there.
 
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cockpitbob

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Not true at all, money flow matters. OP basically set off the shop’s “weird shit possible straw” detector. Anytime you have cash flowing -directly- from another party to buy a gun this seta off alarm bells everywhere.
I guess I should cut the clerk some slack. Imagine a guy working the counter at a gun store and one working at the baseball card store next to it. They both make some clerical screw-ups on the job. One gets his peepee slapped for costing the store some money while next door the store is being closed and someone's getting cuffed and stuffed.

IMO it takes guts to own a gun store.
 
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Lol If I was the clerk I would have blocked it too, that's textbook straw behaviors the op's stepson pulled in his post. The difference is I would have tried to clear it with management if I thought it was likely legit and just someone being retarded.

I disagree that's it's "not a difficult concept". If I gave 100 gun owners a straw person test 80 of them would probably fail it. It's VERY f***ey and nuanced.

-Mike
I must have just been lucky, our clerk didn't really mind as my mom and I schemed in the store how to get this rifle from J&G sales to my hands. Then again, it was a small gun shop in a tiny trailer in SC, I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't exactly rigorous in their compliance with the law.

All of this could be avoided if you just keep the clerk totally out of the loop concerning the movement of money. There's no reason for them to be involved in any gift scheme. The simplest solution would just to have your son buy it and reimburse him after the fact.

I still don't understand how this is a straw problem, other than just the mere existence of a third party brings the whiff of impropriety. There's nothing to indicate that the buyer intends to transfer the gun to someone else.
 

amm5061

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Not a straw purchase in this case, since gifting is still allowed, but I can see why the clerk went full retard about it.

Your son failed to cultivate a relationship with the guys at this particular gun shop first. If they knew him, and knew exactly what was going down, then they likely would know it wasn't a straw and wouldn't have turned him away.

Your best bet, as others have said, is to purchase a gift card or pre-paid debit card for him, or just have him buy it himself and send him a reimbursement check.
 

Radtekk

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All hypothetically of course:

Lady Radtekk and I once bought a rifle at an LGS. It was Saturday. Before I finally got my UPIN I routinely got delayed after 4pm and on weekends. So I told them to just sell it to her (yes, she has her Maura card) and I'd pay for it. Worked just fine, everybody was happy. Of course, that was something like gun number 5 or 6 I bought there so...
 

Hetzer

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S&W 6906, what is that a police trade in?

I’d try to talk them into something more modern for their one and only gun. Something like an M&P or a Glock, an H&K, maybe even a Canik for lower cost.
 
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This is ridiculous. Now, please correct me if I'm wrong, but a straw purchase is when one individual buys a firearm for another individual who is prohibited from legally purchasing one for himself. Such as I'm approached by a guy who says hes a felon but needs a pistol and he'll sweeten the deal by going $100 over if I help him out. I buy the pistol for the guy, take the $100 and we're on our separate ways. THATS a straw purchase.

I've heard so much blasphemy about straw purchases that it makes my head spin, its like people trying to out-do each others idiocy. Can I buy my son a rifle for Christmas? Say I see a gun I cant pass up but I'm a little short on cash. Can I borrow $50 from my buddy who's there with me?
 

Darksideblues42

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S&W 6906, what is that a police trade in?

I’d try to talk them into something more modern for their one and only gun. Something like an M&P or a Glock, an H&K, maybe even a Canik for lower cost.
Not a police trade in. They want something with a mechanical safety and a decocker, and the all stainless construction makes the recoil sensation less (not that there is much to begin with) they have an 870 as well, but they wanted something smaller for her to use if needed.
 
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