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Saiga 12 Kushnapup

L

Lord0fWar

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Some folks got to handle the Kushnapup at the NES Members Car Shoot (if you didn't it means you should join and become a member). For those that missed out, here is a quick video of my new Saiga 12 gauge in Kushnapup configuration. The Kushnapup drops your standard Saiga 12 gauge into Bullpup configuration and gives all those Kel-Tec KSG's a run for their money

 
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Seems like a cool concept, but looks very awkward for mag changes because of the rearward placement. I do like that it shortens the whole thing into a more compact package, though.
 
VaderNo.png
 
Mag change does seem awkward. And the shells bouncing off the brim of his hat.

Still, nice concept. Might be nicer with a trigger guard, even a large one for gloved fingers. And maybe a ghost ring sight.
 
Booger hook away from the trigger.
Click to expand...

Where was my trigger finger on the trigger when i wasnt shooting?

Still, nice concept. Might be nicer with a trigger guard, even a large one for gloved fingers. And maybe a ghost ring sight.
Click to expand...

First batch shipped out WITHOUT the top rail cover made for optics...that will be fixed soon!
 
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Any thoughts on the legality of the kushnapup conversion in Mass?

Is the handle now a pistol grip?
If so that is the second evil feature that turns this into a No-No.

Thouhgts?
 
DRFTraining said:
Where was my trigger finger on the trigger when i wasnt shooting?
Click to expand...

Could be video quality, but I counted 9 times where it seems your finger (mostly your left index) is riding on the trigger. One of the issues with the aforementioned lack of a trigger guard - it's really easy for the finger to accidentally end up on the trigger.

Like I said, otherwise, looks like a very nice piece of hardware.

As for the SBS - might be cheaper to get a tax stamp, but then you need to engrave it and wait 6 months for the thing to be processed.
 
Could be video quality, but I counted 9 times where it seems your finger (mostly your left index) is riding on the trigger. One of the issues with the aforementioned lack of a trigger guard - it's really easy for the finger to accidentally end up on the trigger.
Click to expand...

Just think it was the black stock against my black shirt...I went back and watched it a few times to make sure. But you're right, thats the problem is that the trigger is exposed, and really no other way to present/show it without your hand somewhere in there
 
what a lot of you people don't realize is that this piece of hardware is the equivalent of the Saiga Unicorn- it was presented years ago and had everyone really excited about it... only to disappear and turn into internet lore. Vaporware. Tons of preorders, unhappy peeps on Saiga-12 forums, lots of credit card cancellations and angry email exchanges.

Seeing it up in NH almost made me shit my pants. I thought I was tripping balls or something.
 
Son of Sasquatch said:
With the CLEO sign off going away I'll just get a SBS saiga 12...

The stock is more than a tax stamp.
Click to expand...

Except that once you put a stamp on it you can't sell it easily, and you have to beg for permission every time (or at least once a year) for every state you want to transport it out of MA via a 5320. You also now have a shotgun you cannot legally loan anyone unless they're in some kind of a legal entity with you (Trust, Corp/LLC...) Have fun with that. There are lots of advantages to keeping stuff under Title I.

-Mike
 
Am I reading it right - $935 for the conversion kit if you own a Saiga-12 (additional $75 to have Black Forge install)?
 
drgrant said:
Except that once you put a stamp on it you can't sell it easily, and you have to beg for permission every time (or at least once a year) for every state you want to transport it out of MA via a 5320. You also now have a shotgun you cannot legally loan anyone unless they're in some kind of a legal entity with you (Trust, Corp/LLC...) Have fun with that. There are lots of advantages to keeping stuff under Title I.

-Mike
Click to expand...

You can submit a 5320 for 1/1/xxxx to 12/31/xxxx in up to 20 states. It's pretty cut and dry so I wouldn't say 'begging'. Since I'd only go to NH or VT with something (if at all) that's 2 forms.

I'm going Title II this year or next anyways and it doesn't really phase me. The positives far out way the negative.
 
I wanted to do that aswell; alas, mass sucks.
How is the trigger pull on the Kushnapup? I've always heard the trigger sucks on bullpups.
Click to expand...

It's still a bullpup...so its not a match grade trigger by any means, but its far better than some other bullpup configurations out there
 
Terminator03 said:
I must have missed a post, or something, but this is the first I have heard of the CLEO sign off going away. when is that supposed to happen?
Click to expand...

Forgive my ignorance,
Where can I read up on the CLEO signoff and how that applies to my original question of "Is the kushnapup kit mass legal?"

Thanks.
 
kid_fisto said:
Forgive my ignorance,
Where can I read up on the CLEO signoff and how that applies to my original question of "Is the kushnapup kit mass legal?"

Thanks.
Click to expand...

CLEO signoff death is rumored quite a bit when it comes to ATF changing the rules on the forms. Look on some of the Class III forums for background. Expect a couple years before anything changes. A video by a silencer rights groups states that ATF itself is working on this changeover as the CLEO is archaic.

Good luck trying to SBS a shotgun in MA yourself. They seem to reject everything but factory SBSs due to the "sawed off shotgun" law in MA. This changed several years ago as I know of one SOT who used to cut all sorts of shotguns and then got denied. If anyone can show they are allowing them, I will be getting a Serbu that week. Further, the argument that a SBR does not meet the definition of a firearm in MA and is therefore exempt from the AWB I dont think will apply to a SBS. Your call if you can get it approved and then not get locked up for it.
 
I don't see how the kushnapup turns the Saiga into an SBS.

If you leave the barrel alone (mine is 19") and you put the shotgun into the new stock the overall length is >26" (I think 26.5"). As far as I understand this would not qualify a kushnapup saiga12 as an SBS.

What I'm more worried about is this part of the AWB still in effect that outlines the definition of semi-auto shotgun as an assault weapon:
Semi-automatic shotguns with two or more of the following:
  • Folding or telescoping stock
  • Pistol grip
  • Fixed capacity of more than 5 rounds
  • Detachable magazine

Semi-Auto Saiga 12 has a detachable mag.

Is the grip on the kushnapup a pistol grip?
That is the last bit that would sink the kushnapup in MA.
For reference the dragunov stock that is made for AK style rifles is legal in mass as a "thumbhole stock" (as I understand).

Thoughts?
 
kid_fisto said:
I don't see how the kushnapup turns the Saiga into an SBS.

If you leave the barrel alone (mine is 19") and you put the shotgun into the new stock the overall length is >26" (I think 26.5"). As far as I understand this would not qualify a kushnapup saiga12 as an SBS.

What I'm more worried about is this part of the AWB still in effect that outlines the definition of semi-auto shotgun as an assault weapon:
Semi-automatic shotguns with two or more of the following:
  • Folding or telescoping stock
  • Pistol grip
  • Fixed capacity of more than 5 rounds
  • Detachable magazine

Semi-Auto Saiga 12 has a detachable mag.

Is the grip on the kushnapup a pistol grip?
That is the last bit that would sink the kushnapup in MA.
For reference the dragunov stock that is made for AK style rifles is legal in mass as a "thumbhole stock" (as I understand).

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

The Kushnapup isn't going to be a SBS and is fine in MA. There's nothing to worry about with it (man how they've got some of us scared). I was saying that for the money I'd rather just buy a factory SBS Saiga 12. The bullpup configuration doesn't appeal to me.

01SVTvert said:
CLEO signoff death is rumored quite a bit when it comes to ATF changing the rules on the forms. Look on some of the Class III forums for background. Expect a couple years before anything changes. A video by a silencer rights groups states that ATF itself is working on this changeover as the CLEO is archaic.

Good luck trying to SBS a shotgun in MA yourself. They seem to reject everything but factory SBSs due to the "sawed off shotgun" law in MA. This changed several years ago as I know of one SOT who used to cut all sorts of shotguns and then got denied. If anyone can show they are allowing them, I will be getting a Serbu that week. Further, the argument that a SBR does not meet the definition of a firearm in MA and is therefore exempt from the AWB I dont think will apply to a SBS. Your call if you can get it approved and then not get locked up for it.
Click to expand...

It's in motion already and It won't be that long in the grand schemes of things.

I was always planning on going factory. My time is worth more than garage gunsmithing.
 
kid_fisto said:
I don't see how the kushnapup turns the Saiga into an SBS.

If you leave the barrel alone (mine is 19") and you put the shotgun into the new stock the overall length is >26" (I think 26.5"). As far as I understand this would not qualify a kushnapup saiga12 as an SBS.

What I'm more worried about is this part of the AWB still in effect that outlines the definition of semi-auto shotgun as an assault weapon:
Semi-automatic shotguns with two or more of the following:
  • Folding or telescoping stock
  • Pistol grip
  • Fixed capacity of more than 5 rounds
  • Detachable magazine

Semi-Auto Saiga 12 has a detachable mag.

Is the grip on the kushnapup a pistol grip?
That is the last bit that would sink the kushnapup in MA.
For reference the dragunov stock that is made for AK style rifles is legal in mass as a "thumbhole stock" (as I understand).

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

The grip of the kushnapup stock would seem to fit the description of a "pistol grip". I don't think the grip extension from the bottom of the grip to the front of the stock nullifies that, and if you remove that extension, it is definately a pistol grip.
 
what a lot of you people don't realize is that this piece of hardware is the equivalent of the Saiga Unicorn- it was presented years ago and had everyone really excited about it... only to disappear and turn into internet lore. Vaporware. Tons of preorders, unhappy peeps on Saiga-12 forums, lots of credit card cancellations and angry email exchanges.

Seeing it up in NH almost made me shit my pants. I thought I was tripping balls or something.
Click to expand...


Flintoid...if you are ever in our AO in NH you are more than welcome to take it for a spin!
 

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