Safe won't open

[ThemBones]

Check this link below out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApJQ2wcYjBo. Guy uses a Rare Earth Magnet (you can get one $7-20 online?) in a sock to open a Sentry Safe.

I have a 5 rifle Paragon safe and had trouble opening it because my electronic keypad battery died. Found a video that said something about banging on the top as you try to open with the handle. Common theme between these Paragon and Sentry Safe seems to be Chinese parts.

 

[42!]

Check this link below out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApJQ2wcYjBo. Guy uses a Rare Earth Magnet (you can get one $7-20 online?) in a sock to open a Sentry Safe.

I have a 5 rifle Paragon safe and had trouble opening it because my electronic keypad battery died. Found a video that said something about banging on the top as you try to open with the handle. Common theme between these Paragon and Sentry Safe seems to be Chinese parts.

The problem with the safe in the video has little to do with the source of the part, it's a design problem. The solanoid, which is a basic part in electronic locks, is positioned such that the shaft (or whatever it's called) can be pushed/pulled by an external magnetic field. Normal this is done by energizing the coil of the solanoid itself (so no a plastic part can't be used). You may even be able to overcome a positioning problem by using a coil of wire, run a current through it and inducing a current and subsequent magnetic field in the solanoid itself.

Hmm, this sounds like a pretty fundamental flaw in all the electronic locks.

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[Rob Boudrie]

I suspect the OP is talking about a sentry vertical safe for long guns, not the super cheap pistol safe which uses a different mechanism.

Hmm, this sounds like a pretty fundamental flaw in all the electronic locks.

Not the higher end ones like the LaGard, S&G or KabaMas.

 

[UncleDuke]

Thermite isn't an explosive. It's a metal/oxidizer combination used to cut or weld metal and also a name of the exothermic reaction. Sparklers are an example of a lower energy thermite reaction.

Tannerite is actually a sensitized version of ANFO (ammonium nitrate/fuel oil), a form of blasting agent. Use tannerite and you risk doing more than blowing open a safe. If you're licensed to use explosives, I'd use Detasheet (plasticized flexible explosive) or something similar and create a shaped charge with two pieces side by side with about an eighth of an inch gap. This would split open the safe. This will, however, cause a very loud blast.

 

[Golddiggie]

Thermite isn't an explosive. It's a metal/oxidizer combination used to cut or weld metal and also a name of the exothermic reaction. Sparklers are an example of a lower energy thermite reaction.

Tannerite is actually a sensitized version of ANFO (ammonium nitrate/fuel oil), a form of blasting agent. Use tannerite and you risk doing more than blowing open a safe. If you're licensed to use explosives, I'd use Detasheet (plasticized flexible explosive) or something similar and create a shaped charge with two pieces side by side with about an eighth of an inch gap. This would split open the safe. This will, however, cause a very loud blast.

Thermite is also EASY to make...

 

[StevieP]

Soak it in a penetrating oil or lubricant and let it sit overnight?

KROIL will fix it sho nuff.

 

[42!]

I suspect the OP is talking about a sentry vertical safe for long guns, not the super cheap pistol safe which uses a different mechanism.

Not the higher end ones like the LaGard, S&G or KabaMas.

I'm curious. If they are not using a solenoid on their electronic locks, how are they converting the electrical impulse to mechanical motion? I'm sure they would do better at shielding and positioning a solenoid but that's just a matter of using a sufficiently large and powerful electric coil to induce a current in the solenoid.

 

[GaryO]

I'm curious. If they are not using a solenoid on their electronic locks, how are they converting the electrical impulse to mechanical motion? I'm sure they would do better at shielding and positioning a solenoid but that's just a matter of using a sufficiently large and powerful electric coil to induce a current in the solenoid.

Dr. Science [emoji1]

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[radarbob]

Bite the bullet and call a professional. Once it's open, have him replace the entire mechanism. Not a place to try to save a few bucks. Explosive is a really bad idea!

 

[Rob Boudrie]

I'm curious. If they are not using a solenoid on their electronic locks, how are they converting the electrical impulse to mechanical motion? I'm sure they would do better at shielding and positioning a solenoid but that's just a matter of using a sufficiently large and powerful electric coil to induce a current in the solenoid.

An internal worm drive gear mechanism is used to pull the bolt back.

 

[Peicemaker]

A couple rounds of .50 BMG API should do the trick.

 

[dhuze]

I wonder how many have bothered to to read the fact that he got it opened already.

 

[RHJJ]

I wonder how many have bothered to to read the fact that he got it opened already.

That's just a minor detail.

 

[Sweeney]

I wonder how many have bothered to to read the fact that he got it opened already.

C'mon...people don't read through the threads. Silly you.

 

[LuvDog]

I wonder how many have bothered to to read the fact that he got it opened already.

Dont ruin this. I suggest trying every method they tried on myth busters

 

[GaryO]

Always use professionals.

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[bfm]

I wonder how many have bothered to to read the fact that he got it opened already.

Who got what open?

I recommend greasing it with butter.

 

[42!]

An internal worm drive gear mechanism is used to pull the bolt back.

Could still do it with an external coil of wire, unless it's a stepper motor. I wish I had one so I could try it out. It would be cool to see if it worked. I don't know how the memory is structured but it might be possible to wipe the password memory magnetically without wiping the operating code, effectively setting an all 0 (binary) passcode.

This is fun , any safe companies willing to donate to my evil experiments?

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Could still do it with an external coil of wire, unless it's a stepper motor. I wish I had one so I could try it out. It would be cool to see if it worked. I don't know how the memory is structured but it might be possible to wipe the password memory magnetically without wiping the operating code, effectively setting an all 0 (binary) passcode.

This is fun , any safe companies willing to donate to my evil experiments?

The weakness on the so-called Group I locks (which should have their group Iedness revoked) is that the current draw varies slightly depending on the validity off an entered digit. People have been able to build devices that replace the keypad and take advantage of this to manipulate a digital LaGard/S&G type digital combo lock in about 15 minutes.

There is a drilling technique that gets access to the electronic mechanism to allow mechanical manipulation of the bolt. I was speaking to the tech guy at a major firearms training facility where they were locked out of the vault which had a S&G or LaGard electronic lock (forget which) (the one with the audit trail). They called a pro who drilled the lock area of the door, opened it, replaced the lock and repaired the door. He said the pro did not have much trouble getting in cleanly and neatly.

The exception to this is the Kaba-Mas X-09/10/11/etc series of locks. None less than the great Andrew Tobias have said you aren't opening one of these without the combination.

 

[milktree]

Could still do it with an external coil of wire, unless it's a stepper motor.

How would you get a motor inside to spin using a coil outside?

 

[milktree]

The weakness on the so-called Group I locks (which should have their group Iedness revoked) is that the current draw varies slightly depending on the validity off an entered digit. People have been able to build devices that replace the keypad and take advantage of this to manipulate a digital LaGard/S&G type digital combo lock in about 15 minutes.

There is a drilling technique that gets access to the electronic mechanism to allow mechanical manipulation of the bolt. I was speaking to the tech guy at a major firearms training facility where they were locked out of the vault which had a S&G or LaGard electronic lock (forget which) (the one with the audit trail). They called a pro who drilled the lock area of the door, opened it, replaced the lock and repaired the door. He said the pro did not have much trouble getting in cleanly and neatly.

The exception to this is the Kaba-Mas X-09/10/11/etc series of locks. None less than the great Andrew Tobias have said you aren't opening one of these without the combination.

Wow, the X-10 locks list at $1,750.

I'd feel silly putting that on a $1,500 safe.

Clearly I need a bigger/better safe.

 

[42!]

How would you get a motor inside to spin using a coil outside?

The external coil, when a current is run through it, will produce a magnetic field that will in turn produce a current in any windings inside the safe. This will produce a magnetic field in the motor, causing it to turn. Probably will have to play with position, polarity, maybe frequency (AC current). But a basic electric motor isn't going to be all that picky. Especially if you're not looking for consistent power/speed. At least that's the idea.

It wont work on a stepper motor because it uses an intelligent circuit to incrementally move the magnetic field by changing the pair of coils being energized.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Wow, the X-10 locks list at $1,750.

I'd feel silly putting that on a $1,500 safe.

Clearly I need a bigger/better safe.

I think the sale is restricted to govt contractors only, at least for the latest version.

 

[CoastieRon]

Here's an X-09 on eBay.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/192243151739

The X series is a "fun" lock


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