S&W with trigger lock locks up

[dwarven1]

http://ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=34&t=307020

I think maybe I'll remove the locking lug on my S&Ws... this is quite an eye-opener.

I am mad.

No one here has ever seen me mad before, My wife has only seen it once, but here I am.

I got a new .41 mag S&W 357PD Air lite a few months ago.
To shorten the story it was built with a bad cylinder with one chamber out of speck.
I paid to send it back for repair. It arrived today about ten days after I sent it in. The cylinder had been replaced,so off to the range I go to try it out.
I fired about 36 rounds and was re adjusting the sights. I was shooting my own loads a 210 grain LSWC target load. nothing special.
I though I had the sights where I wanted them when about 3 rounds in the gun locked up.
The hammer dropped to where half cock would be and stopped.
I looked at the gun as if it had fell from the sky Dumbfounded would be a good description.
Having more than a little firearms training and experience I started to clear the malfunction. Pulling the trigger again did nothing. Pulling the hammer back did nothing.
The gun was locked up.

I mean that, the little metal flag that says "LOCKED" was up
I had not locked or un locked the gun with the key. In fact I have NEVER locked this gun and don't know where the key is.

The gun had safety locked itself.

I pushed down the metal flag with my thumb and managed to get the hammer down. I cleared the gun.
Frankly I could not believe what had just happened. I pulled the trigger a couple of times and the gun worked. I reloaded and fired it again this time it locked on the second round.
My temper boiled over. I packed up everything and left the range.

I recall reading in a gun mag last year about how S&W was saying this did not happen. That the reports of it happening were just "the Internet" and if it was really a problem then S&W would know.
Well they know now. I called and told S&W what happened. A pick up tag is on the way to me. I am betting no announcement from S&W will follow.

Thats why I am mad. People including me buy S&W products to bet our lives on. The lock is a useless feature that only appealed to S&W's litigation lawyers. The lock does nothing for the function of the gun,except to stop it cold.

I say this as seriously as I can. If you have a S&W revolver with this lock feature for protection you need to re think it.
IT CAN GO BAD AND LOCK UP YOUR REVOLVER
This is not a product I can have faith in any longer.
I would be a fool to carry one to protect my life.

NOI

 

[tele_mark]

Well, that's confidence-inspiring.

 

[FPrice]

The Smith-Wesson Forum (www.smith-wessonforum.com) has a sticky about this problem. Many reported and verified stories about this happening.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/500103904/m/228102718

 

[JimB]

lock

the lock can be removed, check the smith and wesson for further info.

From what i read you can do it yourself.

JimB

 

[Bugs100]

I'm a big fan of the 41mag and was thinking about getting another one and that model was one of the ones I was thinking about.

Evidently he shoots the same load as most 41mag reloaders. 7grs to 8grs of Unique with 210 grain LSWC.

I think I'm going to cross this model off my list, not because of the lock failing but because of the finish on the revolver.

I shoot a lot of 41mags using 7grs of Unique and I've never seen a Stainless get that dirty after 36 rounds.

 

[dreppucci007]

That's gotta suck

 

[Pilgrim]

That must be a lie as S&W has repeatedly said that doesn't happen.

 

[Chris]

Removing the guts of the lock is easy. Still a PIA that you need to.

 

[Cross-X]

If he knows you, Greg Derr can disable it for you. ([email protected])

 

[EddieCoyle]

Does someone make a plug to cover the hole?

I had a 357PD for a while. It's not a revolver that you want to shoot a lot. Not because of recoil, but because it doesn't take long to "shoot it loose".

 

[Dick]

All you ever wanted to know about removing/defeating the dreaded IL here (along with a lot of other info about the secret life of S&W revolvers): http://smith-wessonforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/530103904/m/875107028

Jim: There's one post in the FAQ that discusses making a simple plug for the hole, and there's also discussion of simply grinding the lug off the flag, leaving no hole to plug.

 

[drgrant]

I wish they would just get rid of the damned thing altogether.

I'm sure if you actually sent out a survey card to the people that bought their
revolvers 99.9% would say that they NEVER used it.

The worst thing about the S+W lock is that it does NOT have a tactile detent of some sort. You just turn it and its there... you can't feel it "locking" on or off. For instance, newer HK USPs and probably P2000, etc, have a lock in the mainspring.... and it has a detent in it. That thing is never "turning itself on" by accident, because it clicks into place. There is at least a significant amount of mechanical resistance to it enabling itself.

I realize the company that bought S+W made the locks or whatever but they really should just give that idea up. They don't have it on their autos so why on a revolver? It doesn't serve any useful purpose anyways, as it's
not even an MA compliant locking device. I doubt it meets ANY standard for safe storage by ANY state in the US, either, for the commie states that do have safe storage regs. So whats the point?

-Mike

 

[M1911]

So whats the point?

Protection against civil lawsuits. Whether it actually provides S&W any real defense is the interesting question.

 

[drgrant]

Protection against civil lawsuits. Whether it actually provides S&W any real defense is the interesting question.

If that is the case, then why isn't there an internal lock on EVERY handgun that S+W makes? Most of their autos don't have them, save for the M+P, and even in that case, the lock is optional.

If anything S+W is actually exposing themselves to MORE liability. (I can see some lawyers having a field day if someone gets hurt/killed in a gunfight because his gun locked up 1 shots into the cylinder.... ) I'm not a lawyer but I think such a case would be pretty "jury saleable".


-Mike

 

[M1911]

If that is the case, then why isn't there an internal lock on EVERY handgun that S+W makes? Most of their autos don't have them, save for the M+P, and even in that case, the lock is optional.

I agree, but apparently when S&W executives were questioned about removing the lock, their response was "will you pay for our lawsuits?" Why they think this is required for their revolvers but not for their semi-autos is mystifying to me.

If anything S+W is actually exposing themselves to MORE liability. (I can see some lawyers having a field day if someone gets hurt/killed in a gunfight because his gun locked up 1 shots into the cylinder.... ) I'm not a lawyer but I think such a case would be pretty "jury saleable".

I think the chances of that happening are very, very small. Not much comfort if you are the one holding onto the poorly shaped bludgeon, of course.

 

[mark056]

As much as I genuinely love S&W they are not out of the woods with regard to quality control. I recently purchased a Model 22 "1917" .45 ACP revolver, I always wanted a real one and not a classic copy and could have for $25.00 back in the golden age of military surplus firearms. Anyway, I didn't, so I figured what the hell, I'll get one of these new ones. I have always been partial to nickel plating so I ordered it in nickel.

When it arrived, the nickel was actually starting to peel off the back strap. I had to send it back to the factory where it was refinished.

Now S&W is really good about fixing their guns, but why should it have to be fixed in the first place? This seems to be a systemic problem with that venerable old firm regardless of who owns it be it Bangor Punta, Lear-Siegler, Thompkins Ltd or the new owners.

Mark L.

 

[Goomba]

The 642 model along with some other models come without this lock right?

 

[dwarven1]

The 642 model along with some other models come without this lock right?

The internet is your friend, grasshopper. It took me about 15 seconds to find this... why didn't you look on their website?

 

[Nfdbrian]

I happen to be the lucky owner of one of these. When I saw it in the gun case at my local dealer I knew I had to have it. The guy behind the counter said I have one in the back room, I said does it have the internal lock. He said it does but in his years he has never seen a problem with one. I said no I want the no lock one. I see no point in even having this in there to begin with. A friend of mine has a 649 with the internal lock and that is the first thing he had removed and had the trigger massaged at the same time. I myself love the 642, especially with the LG-405 Crimson Trace grips.

 

[Goomba]

The internet is your friend, grasshopper. It took me about 15 seconds to find this... why didn't you look on their website?

I'm using my iPod touch right now on a crappy internet. Sorry

 

[Dick]

The "no lock" 642s came out as a limited production run (or so we thought at the time) a bit more than a year ago. One of the many rumors was that S&W had a bunch of pre-lock stainless J-frames they needed to use up, which didn't make a great deal of sense, but who knew?

Regardless, I didn't want to take any chances, so I bought one for me and one for my wife, and I'm glad I did. Apparently, the production run wasn't quite as limited as we thought, and they're still offering the gun, at least according to their web site.

 

[Jose]

Remove sideplate
Cock hammer
Remove the lock arm (aka flag) and lock arm spring.
Replace hammer
Replace sideplate
Enjoy reliability

Installation is the reverse. Note, it is MUCH easier to properly install the lock arm spring if you remove the cylinder latch out too.