S&W SD9 VE a Piece of Crap?

[Baikal49]

missing the point dude, ask the guys who compete(IDPA, IPSC, etc) what they shoot, they need reliable solid shooters and they have already tested most guns and put them through the paces.

Why not just get a Walther P22 instead of a Pardini?

No, I did get the point. If I want that reliability through a great deal of firing like the folks you're writing about, I would likely not be spending in the under $700 category.

The short answer to the Walther P-22 question is that you would not be competitive with it in Olympic 25 meter rapid fire. Too much recoil. The Walther OSP on the other hand was designed for this event, as was the Pardini. The OSPs are an older model that sell used for about $1700 if you can find one. The new model is the GSP.
http://www.carl-walther.de/cw.php?lang=de&content=products&sub=1&subsub=13
Hammerli is also up there. Pretty much all of them are in the $2K+ range.

 

[Madball13]

No, I did get the point. If I want that reliability through a great deal of firing like the folks you're writing about, I would likely not be spending in the under $700 category.

The short answer to the Walther P-22 question is that you would not be competitive with it in Olympic 25 meter rapid fire. Too much recoil. The Walther OSP on the other hand was designed for this event, as was the Pardini. The OSPs are an older model that sell used for about $1700 if you can find one. The new model is the GSP.
http://www.carl-walther.de/cw.php?lang=de&content=products&sub=1&subsub=13
Hammerli is also up there. Pretty much all of them are in the $2K+ range.

That's not true at all. IDPA shooters shoot common factory guns with little to no mods and most can be had for less than $700 and just like you wouldn't use a P22, they wouldn't use a Sigma.

 

[Baikal49]

That's not true at all IDPA shooters shoot common factory guns with little to no mods and most can be had for less than $700 and just like you wouldn't use a P22, they wouldn't use a Sigma.

I didn't say that they did. I said that if I wanted that kind of reliability for extensive use (daily, many rounds fired in training) I would not be looking a pistols in the $300 to $700 range. There's a good article at Pilkguns though it is a bit dated.
http://www.pilkguns.com/c11.shtml

 

[Madball13]

I didn't say that they did. I said that if I wanted that kind of reliability for extensive use (daily, many rounds fired in training) I would not be looking a pistols in the $300 to $700 range. There's a good article at Pilkguns though it is a bit dated.
http://www.pilkguns.com/c11.shtml

Now we are getting somewhere, you don't want reliability or dependability, then get a Sigma.

 

[M1911]

Get an M&P, order the kit from Apex, and you're done.

Spending money on "cheap" crap is usually more expensive in the long run.

 

[drgrant]

If I want that reliability through a great deal of firing like the folks you're writing about, I would likely not be spending in the under $700 category.

Yet, some of the most reliable centerfire semiautomatic handguns on the face of the planet (Some Sigs, Glock, XD, M&P) are in or close to that price bracket.

-Mike

 

[beaker]

Find a gen2 G17 somewhere. They can be found last year I picked one up from a local gun store for $350. Was a LEO trade in and in excellent shape. Cry once.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[vellnueve]

The Sigma will go bang every time you pull the trigger, as long as you're using decent ammo.

- - - Updated - - -

I didn't say that they did. I said that if I wanted that kind of reliability for extensive use (daily, many rounds fired in training) I would not be looking a pistols in the $300 to $700 range. There's a good article at Pilkguns though it is a bit dated.
http://www.pilkguns.com/c11.shtml

This is one of the dumbest things I've seen posted in a while.

Most of the most reliable carry/duty sidearms available are in this price range.

 

[ColdDayInHell]

Yet, some of the most reliable centerfire semiautomatic handguns on the face of the planet (Some Sigs, Glock, XD, M&P) are in or close to that price bracket.

-Mike

Exactly. I guess the trigger is different than the old Sigma's. You're still getting a lower end gun that I could never justify buying but to each his own. I'd stick to M&P even though their triggers are horrible, you're still getting a reliable firearm.

 

[Baikal49]

Yet, some of the most reliable centerfire semiautomatic handguns on the face of the planet (Some Sigs, Glock, XD, M&P) are in or close to that price bracket.

-Mike

Well that's good to know. I've seen a number of very nice pistols from a variety of manufacturers in the >$800 range. My experience has been that you generally do get what you pay for. I would not expect a SD to have the quality of, for example, any of SW's M&P pistols costing $700+ .The point is that the SD9 can be had for around $300 and would not be expected to be anywhere near the quality of pistols from SW costing $400 to $500 more. Hence my question, to wit, is the SD9 crap as one gun shop owner told me this week?

I am not interested in paying more than mid-$300s for any pistol firearm. ( I would pay $1000+ for a FWB or Anschutz smallbore rifle) I won't get the use that a more expensive pistol might be expected to get. That's just my position on firearm pistols. 10 meter air pistols on the other hand I will pay and have paid more ($1200+) because you have to to get the quality needed for accuracy and long term dependability. Cheap pcp pistols will not get the job done.

It seems from what people have said the SD9 is dependable in that it fires when asked even if the trigger is not to some people's liking. Now that the Shield 9mm has been MA approved, I will likely pay $80 more and get that over the SD9. Again, thanks to all for their info and opinions.

 

[ColdDayInHell]

Have you considered the SR9/SR9c? You can find them used for $349 and they are extremely reliable and well built. If you can find a Kel-Tec in this state I'd go for that if you have a $300 budget. KT are good guns but I hear some issues with them.

 

[Baikal49]

Now we are getting somewhere, you don't want reliability or dependability, then get a Sigma.

No that's NOT what I said. I want reasonable reliability for my intended use which will not be as intense as other's will be.

 

[20 PAWS]

Baikal, where are you located ? Might be better options for you if you are not a Mass resident.

 

[xtry51]

Who is paying near $700 for an M&P? Mine was $475 new.

 

[carbuncle]

I had the original Sigma, the SW40F, back when they came out and I liked it well enough. I sold it to a buddy of mine and he still has it, 15 years later, and won't part with it. I'd buy another, if I needed a plastic semi auto on a tight budget.

 

[Madball13]

No that's NOT what I said. I want reasonable reliability for my intended use which will not be as intense as other's will be.

You'll pay 1200 for a pellet gun but no more than 300 for a handgun that you may use for HD and carry, hilarious.

 

[dreadedtrash]

Who is paying near $700 for an M&P? Mine was $475 new.

I know I will sell him mine with trigger kit for the low, low price of $650

 

[Cerfur]

That's like being proud to be a chubby lover. I guess someone has to love something that is chunky, bumpy and cheap

I take no shame in the fact I like chubby girls...... I would not own a sigma and if I did i most certainly would not take it out in public

 

[Baikal49]

You'll pay 1200 for a pellet gun but no more than 300 for a handgun that you may use for HD and carry, hilarious.

That's correct. The firearm I carry is sufficient for self-defense. It costs just under $400 from S&W or Ruger. There are probably other manufacturers just a dependable in that price range. A $700 firearm isn't in the least necessary for that.

For $700, you'll get a fairly low end Czech made pcp 10 meter air pistol by Tau or Alfa proj that will likely not last all that long. The regulator on my Alfa proj went bad after less than 1000 rounds. It was quite accurate though. The least expensive quality pcp 10 meter air pistols start at $1300 and go up to around $3000 for the best with electronic triggers. I have a Feinwerkbau P11 that cost me $1300. It's a pleasure to shoot, dependable and more accurate than I'll ever be. It has helped me to improve along with some coaching.

So, the point you clearly miss is acknowledging the price point for what you desire to do. <$400 for dependable self-defense pistol. No need to spend $500 or more for self-defense unless you desire to which is fine. For 10 meter Air Pistol, take your chances with $700 or get the real thing from Germany starting at $1300.

 

[vellnueve]

Who the hell is charging you $700 for an M&P? I can get them for $350.

 

[Baikal49]

Who the hell is charging you $700 for an M&P? I can get them for $350.

Suggested retail. Which M&P are you referring to. If you can get a M&P .357 Sig for $350, please PM me with the name of the dealer.

 

[Bill Katt]

I take no shame in the fact I like chubby girls...... I would not own a sigma and if I did i most certainly would not take it out in public

Hey, chubby girls need lovin' too.
I like my Sigma 9. Sure it's not the most awesomest gun on the planet but I don't care. It's fun to shoot and accurate (as long as you take your time and pay attn...lol). I bought it used, no idea how many rounds went through it before I got it. I do know that I've easily put a couple of thousand rounds through it. So far, only 3 problems with it. One, it doesn't like Tulammo 9mm...(although my AK eats that chit like candy, not the 9mm though...lol)...two, I had some feeding issues with some 9mm that were my own reloads. First time giving it a shot at 9mm, my M&P didn't like it either. After tweaking the length of the cartridge, I finally got it to work fine. However, that was my fault not the Sigma's...lol. The most recent problem just happened last range trip...a few days ago. after a little while it started having light strikes. I popped the slide off and pushed the firing pin forward but it barely protruded. When I cleaned it that night I pulled the pin out for the first time since I've had it. There was so much crud in there that I couldn't believe that it even moved at all. Cleaned it all nice & perty..put it back in the slide...pushed it forward again and it came out nicely as it should. It's all back together and I'm fully confident that it will function fine for another few thousand rounds. If not, then oh well....I've certainly got my money's worth out of it.

 

[xtry51]

Suggested retail. Which M&P are you referring to. If you can get a M&P .357 Sig for $350, please PM me with the name of the dealer.

I bought mine here from my LGS. Full size 9mm $475 a few years ago NIB. I didn't shop around, I'm good supporting the locals at that price.

 

[meth0d]

I bought mine here from my LGS. Full size 9mm $475 a few years ago NIB. I didn't shop around, I'm good supporting the locals at that price.

I got one of the "range/carry" kits $525 with a full size 9mm, Bladetech holster & dual mag carrier, 3 mags (I think they regularly ship with just 2?) and a fancy little uplula loader. Granted the Bladetech gear isn't the greatest but it works.

Just not seeing the value in the Sigmas...

 

[vellnueve]

Suggested retail. Which M&P are you referring to. If you can get a M&P .357 Sig for $350, please PM me with the name of the dealer.

The dealer is out of your area - however almost every major dealer in MA will sell you an M&P for between $400-550. The most I've paid for any M&P was $600 for the 9 Pro.

 

[M1911]

Suggested retail. Which M&P are you referring to. If you can get a M&P .357 Sig for $350, please PM me with the name of the dealer.

You want to buy a gun for home defense. You want to cheap out on buying it, because spending money for target shooting with an air pistol is important to you, but your life is less important. However, you also want that cheap ass gun to be in .357 SIG, which is perhaps the most expensive defensive pistol caliber available?

I will clearly never understand where you are coming from and any practical advice from me or anyone else will be lost on you.

Go buy your SD9. When you decide that you hate it and trade it at a loss, don't come back here whining about it.

 

[Bill Katt]

I got one of the "range/carry" kits $525 with a full size 9mm, Bladetech holster & dual mag carrier, 3 mags (I think they regularly ship with just 2?) and a fancy little uplula loader. Granted the Bladetech gear isn't the greatest but it works.

Just not seeing the value in the Sigmas...

Got that same setup at the same price....still like my Sigma too though....LOL

 

[ColdDayInHell]

The dealer is out of your area - however almost every major dealer in MA will sell you an M&P for between $400-550. The most I've paid for any M&P was $600 for the 9 Pro.

Exactly what I was thinking. I don't even own a M&P and never look for one but they always end up advertising a good price in my face. I have no idea what this $700 nonsense is.

 

[Bill Katt]

Exactly what I was thinking. I don't even own a M&P and never look for one but they always end up advertising a good price in my face. I have no idea what this $700 nonsense is.

I think he said that was the MSRP. As we all (should) know, the MSRP is usually WAY above what you'll actully find something/anything for at a store.

 

[ColdDayInHell]

I think he said that was the MSRP. As we all (should) know, the MSRP is usually WAY above what you'll actully find something/anything for at a store.

True Bill. Even $600 is high for an M&P. I do know a lot of people on here that'd pay $700 and up for the new M&P Shield! Wait until the gun shops have them in stock, people will be buying them like hot cakes. If it has the CA loaded indicator flag then it might not sell so good.