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S&W M&P 9C sighting in advice needed.

Sterg

Sterg

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My brother in law just bought one and we went to the range today. He had a problem hitting the target so I gave it a try. Same problem. I pretty much had to aim off the target to hit it. Are these usually problematic? Should he mess with the sights? Send it back to Smith and Wesson? I have to think the thing would shoot half decent out of the box. Other than the sighting problem I like how it shoots. Anyone else have problems with theirs?
 
Caution: Do not try to drift the rear sight without first backing off the small set screw that locks the sight in it's dovetail.

Caution No 2: That set screw may well have a bit of Lock Tite on it from the factory. Do not try to force it with gorilla muscle on an Allen key; you will strip out the hex on the screw and now you have real problems.

The solution for Lock Tite is heat, but torches and pistol slides don't match. What I do is insert the pencil tip of a soldering iron into the hex of the screw, give it about 39 seconds, and then use a quality tight fitting Allen bit. I've done maybe a dozen of these (you have to remove the rear sight to do an Apex upgrade), and the soldering iron technique has worked every time.
 
Do the sights seem to be aligned to the slide/barrel? Even on the slide?

Move closer to start, get on paper real close. Nonkentucky windage, get a group, then move back. If still groups decent but moves further from bulls in same direction, it’s the sights. If you can’t group, it’s you or the gun.

Mass trigger???
 
Uhm yea it's not the gun, and it's not the bullet weight guys, 124 and 115gr, pretty much the same in all my guns, no difference in point of impact, 124gr maybe hits a little higher than 115gr but not enough to matter at normal pistol distances unless maybe it's for a comp. I have had literally a half dozen or more gen1 m&p's over the years, full size and compact, never had a problem with any of them, I convert them over to free state triggers or put apex kits in them, delete the mag disconnect if it has it, and install my preferred sights, but that's it, they almost always hit dead on with the rear sight centered. They are one of the best polymer striker pistols by far, and the 2.0's are even better. I had one that I used as a training/loaner/beater gun between me and my dad for 6 or 7 years that probably had 25k rds through it, without ever being really cleaned, just some ballistol or oil and a rag once in a while, maybe a boresnake once or twice in all of that, it was scratched and beat to hell, slide worn shiny in several spots, frame all dinged up and worn down in spots, it lived in the bottom of the family range bag half the time with loose brass, dirt, and whatever other crap was in there, got regularly dropped on the ground, slid on, rolled around on, covered in mud, carried on atv's, dirt bikes, backpacking, top of the slide used as a hammer, you name it, it always ran fine, accuracy never changed much, only failure it ever had was an extractor and that was from abuse of someone smacking the slide closed over cheap steel cased 9mm, only reason I don't shoot it now is because I got pheasant blood all over the grip one time and my dog got ahold of it after I had unloaded it and set it down, thinking I was gonna clean it, and he chewed the grip frame up like it was a denta bone, I tig welded the barrel to the slide, and it now hangs over my reloading bench as a nice decoration, and a great reminder of all the good times had with it, and my father.

So to summarize, no it's probably not the gun, you guys just need to learn to shoot.
 
Last edited:
xjma99 said:
Do the sights seem to be aligned to the slide/barrel? Even on the slide?

Move closer to start, get on paper real close. Nonkentucky windage, get a group, then move back. If still groups decent but moves further from bulls in same direction, it’s the sights. If you can’t group, it’s you or the gun.

Mass trigger???
Click to expand...
Rear site looks to be skewed to the left a tiny bit. I figured it was done to adjust at the factory. Mass trigger, but he’s a fairly new shooter and the gun doesn’t have a safety so doing a trigger job I don’t think is a good idea. Thanks for the advice also.
Could be neither of us can’t shoot it. I did get good groups with my 938, but I’m used to shooting it.
 
Sterg said:
Rear site looks to be skewed to the left a tiny bit. I figured it was done to adjust at the factory. Mass trigger, but he’s a fairly new shooter and the gun doesn’t have a safety so doing a trigger job I don’t think is a good idea. Thanks for the advice also.
Could be neither of us can’t shoot it. I did get good groups with my 938, but I’m used to shooting it.
Click to expand...
The factory sights on an M&P are set with a set screw that is loc tited and they fit the dovetail extremely tight, you'd probably be able to tell if they've been moved from the factory.

The garbage MA trigger shouldn't matter if you can shoot, plenty of people carry and shoot and qualify with glocks with garbage heavy NY triggers all the time and I, and most others that really shoot a lot, can shoot a MA compliant M&P just fine, it takes a little more concentration, but it's nowhere near "can't hit the target at 15yds" bad.
 
Get a laser trainer and the cell phone app - dry fire the hell out of it and you'll see groups compress even with the stock trigger.

My 9c was horrible with the stock trigger With the Apex kit now it's me who's horrible. You can select the parts you install to get a clean 5lb trigger - even a new shooter will be safe at 5lbs IF they practice safe handling procedures. If they don't, no trigger is safe.
 
I always recommend that folks use a group analysis chart like this one from TargetShooting Canada: Pistol Group Analysis

You’ll note that if it’s a problem with your shooting, your groups will generally be strung out. If you are consistently shooting tight groups and POI is just not lining up with POA, then it probably is that the sights are off (at least for you). Even Hickok45 gets guns straight from the factory where the sights are off for him. Most of the time it will be the shooter, but don’t just assume it could never be the factory sights.
 

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moojpg2 said:
Uhm yea it's not the gun, and it's not the bullet weight guys, 124 and 115gr, pretty much the same in all my guns, no difference in point of impact, 124gr maybe hits a little higher than 115gr but not enough to matter at normal pistol distances unless maybe it's for a comp. I have had literally a half dozen or more gen1 m&p's over the years, full size and compact, never had a problem with any of them, I convert them over to free state triggers or put apex kits in them, delete the mag disconnect if it has it, and install my preferred sights, but that's it, they almost always hit dead on with the rear sight centered. They are one of the best polymer striker pistols by far, and the 2.0's are even better. I had one that I used as a training/loaner/beater gun between me and my dad for 6 or 7 years that probably had 25k rds through it, without ever being really cleaned, just some ballistol or oil and a rag once in a while, maybe a boresnake once or twice in all of that, it was scratched and beat to hell, slide worn shiny in several spots, frame all dinged up and worn down in spots, it lived in the bottom of the family range bag half the time with loose brass, dirt, and whatever other crap was in there, got regularly dropped on the ground, slid on, rolled around on, covered in mud, carried on atv's, dirt bikes, backpacking, top of the slide used as a hammer, you name it, it always ran fine, accuracy never changed much, only failure it ever had was an extractor and that was from abuse of someone smacking the slide closed over cheap steel cased 9mm, only reason I don't shoot it now is because I got pheasant blood all over the grip one time and my dog got ahold of it after I had unloaded it and set it down, thinking I was gonna clean it, and he chewed the grip frame up like it was a denta bone, I tig welded the barrel to the slide, and it now hangs over my reloading bench as a nice decoration, and a great reminder of all the good times had with it, and my father.

So to summarize, no it's probably not the gun, you guys just need to learn to shoot.
Click to expand...

I agree with the fact that these guns are incredibly reliable. I have had a 9C for eight years that has had over 18k rounds put through it by me. I upgraded the trigger with an Apex kit and replaced the barrel with a Storm Lake unit when I purchased it in 2012. My friends and I have nicknamed it "The Garbage Disposal" as it shoots absolutely anything put into the chamber. Reloads, steel case...everything. As far as accuracy, once I shot 1k rounds through it and really got the feel for how it shoots, it was very accurate.

My recommendation would be to upgrade the trigger and shoot the crap out of it.
 
enbloc said:
When I used to train new shooters. I always started them off close. Nothing worse than watching the joy slip away from someone who can't puncture paper... at first.
Click to expand...

This. Always start new shooters a few feet away, 50 feet is way to far for a brand new shooter. Then there's the MA trigger. Sure, most of us can shoot the MA trigger if we concentrate a little harder but a new shooter, w/ a MA M&P trigger @ 50 feet? I wouldn't expect them to hit paper at that distance, it's setting them up for failure.
 
67ray said:
@Sterg get a laser bore sighter and see where the poa is. I have one I can lend if you are near Boston
.
Click to expand...
Technically, a bore sighter will give you an approximation of the POI (point of impact). The sights give you the POA (point of aim). Of course if the POI as indicated by the bore sighter is significantly off the sights POA, then that’s another indication that your sights are off. The key thing is what your groups look like( and you have to be close enough so that you do have a group hitting paper). Nice tight groups would generally indicate a sight problem. Shots hitting all over the place could still be a gun problem, but in that case you would expect the shots to be all over the target (like a shotgun). If your shots tend to one part of the target, but there is no good group, then it is most likely the shooter.
 

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