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S&W M&P 9C sighting in advice needed.

With that gun, I would replace the trigger before trying to modify the sites. The Apex drop-in kit is much better than the standard MA-issue sloppiness. Yes, increased focus and practice can overcome it, but why make it more difficult than it needs to be?
 
Sterg said:
I’ll tell him not to touch the sites
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Mayhaps suggest he goes down the cellar, triple checks the guns unloaded and pointed at the cement wall pull the trigger whilst making sure the front sight does not wiggle....at all, not even a tiny bit. Fifty or so pulls a time until he can hold the sight steady, and call where it was when the trigger broke before going back to the range will save from wasting precious precious ammo.
 
Sterg said:
Rear site looks to be skewed to the left a tiny bit. I figured it was done to adjust at the factory. Mass trigger, but he’s a fairly new shooter and the gun doesn’t have a safety so doing a trigger job I don’t think is a good idea. Thanks for the advice also.
Could be neither of us can’t shoot it. I did get good groups with my 938, but I’m used to shooting it.
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Id suggest you guys start again. Shoot at closer distance first 7 to 15 feet. Use a rest. See if it even groups before you start making adjustments. You can't shoot a new pistol at 50 feet offhand and expect to get good groups to make adjustments from. Also starting a newer shooter at 50 feet offhand is a hell of a handicap.
 
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BrianWilson said:
Mayhaps suggest he goes down the cellar, triple checks the guns unloaded and pointed at the cement wall pull the trigger whilst making sure the front sight does not wiggle....at all, not even a tiny bit. Fifty or so pulls a time until he can hold the sight steady, and call where it was when the trigger broke before going back to the range will save from wasting precious precious ammo.
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Balance a coin atop the barrel at the muzzle end.
If it falls off when you pull the trigger,
try again.
 
AHM said:
Balance a coin atop the barrel at the muzzle end.
If it falls off when you pull the trigger,
try again.
Click to expand...

I tried that and no matter what I did, the coin always goes flying. One time it even hit the guy in the lane next to me. My groupings were good though. 10 years later I still can’t get it to not fall off. The other people at the range always give me funny looks too.
 
dgrantdoherty said:
With a book on your head ;) . Kidding good idea
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fe3422fb6966e6bec11d65c2422246f6.jpg

Kewl moire patterns require raster-scanning video system,
not included.
 
This subject comes up quite a bit, and I am thinking about writing a short article about it. But the short summary of the article would be "have an experienced shooter shoot the gun."

The sights should not be adjusted until someone who can reliably shoot good groups has shot the gun. If you are not that person, then getting help is invaluable. Specifically, you need someone who can pick up any pistol and shoot a good group to the point of aim where the sights are set. A good group is something like 4" at 25 yards, and proportionately smaller at shorter distances. People who can shoot in this way are called target shooters, and you can usually find some at most clubs.

Giving shooting advice to someone who is not sure about their sights is not helpful. It takes a lot of practice to shoot well, and trying to learn and tweak the sights at the same time rarely works out well.

What really helps people shoot better is seeing someone good shoot their gun. If you are not sure about the sights, and then a good shooter shoots a tight and well centered group with your gun, then you get to continue practicing with confidence about what is going on. Having confidence in your sights, and knowing which shots were mistakes, is very important for developing skills.
 
Here's what I do when sighting in a new gun.
I sit down at my bench 20 ft from the backstop. My target is a blank sheet of paper and I bench rest the weapon on my sandbags using a two hand grip while I'm seated. I fire one round at the center of the paper then I aim five shots at the first hole. I use a very slow and deliberate trigger press and I try to stack the trigger at just about the break point. This pretty much eliminates most user error. Unless there is something drastically wrong with the sights the group is usually what it should be.
Next, I'll place a fresh target and shoot a magazine full from the same distance but standing and with my normal two hand grip. If the group is low and left, like it often is, then I know for sure it's me and not the gun.
 
Sterg said:
My brother in law just bought one and we went to the range today. He had a problem hitting the target so I gave it a try. Same problem. I pretty much had to aim off the target to hit it. Are these usually problematic? Should he mess with the sights? Send it back to Smith and Wesson? I have to think the thing would shoot half decent out of the box. Other than the sighting problem I like how it shoots. Anyone else have problems with theirs?
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why is your BIL zhooting at 50' with a compact pistol. 16 yards/50' is what a lot of indoor ranges are and many clubs mandate targets are to be at 50'.
If its a new gun and you must shoot from 50' hang the largest target you can min 20" x20"
If you still cant get impacts on paper get back to 7yds - more realistic distance for a compact gun heck 4 yards even and see what you/bil/gun and ammo can do at those distances.
If gour still having problems buy a 22 similar to the 9c and work on basic marksmenship.
 
Does it have the factory MA-compliant 11lb trigger?

Get the Apex Duty/Carry kit. Dropped my M&P9c to ~6.1 lb trigger pull that's much smoother with better reset.

It shoots MUCH more accurately. Like most shooters, I hit low & left with the factory trigger because it sucked so bad you end up jerking it.

& yes, try setting the targets a lot closer. There will be precious few times anyone is ever in a self-defense situation at fifty feet. If so you'd likely be up against someone with a shotgun or rifle. Practice shooting inside 20'
 
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Sterg said:
All great advice everyone. I’ll tell him not to touch the sites touch the sites until he shoots closer, gets groups and adjust accordingly. Afterwards a bore sight check. I’ve learned some stuff here myself.
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The bore sight lazers are not really going to help. It will show where the barrel chamber is pointing to some degree and you can see if the sights some what line up. Thats if the laser in the chamber insert is true to the case it is in.
i dont see it helping you much.

if your bil is forced to shoot at 50' because of range rules hang a B6 NRA target at 50' aim for the center , let us know what happens and get some pictures.

or as some have posted , find a known good bulls eye shooter and let them rip a few mags worth on target. When Ever i have pistol problems I call a old timer who shot many years in service pistol matches. Meet up with him place a target at 50 yards and he proofs out the pistol for me. 15+ years only one pistol was the pistol. I cant shoot those compacts for shit! Smallest gun I can shoot well is my 4013 double stack. I have a 5" mkii. I consider it a small pistol but it has "fullsize" grip.

Good luck, dont waste ammo get help.
 
mac1911 said:
The bore sight lazers are not really going to help. It will show where the barrel chamber is pointing to some degree and you can see if the sights some what line up. Thats if the laser in the chamber insert is true to the case it is in.
i dont see it helping you much.

if your bil is forced to shoot at 50' because of range rules hang a B6 NRA target at 50' aim for the center , let us know what happens and get some pictures.

or as some have posted , find a known good bulls eye shooter and let them rip a few mags worth on target. When Ever i have pistol problems I call a old timer who shot many years in service pistol matches. Meet up with him place a target at 50 yards and he proofs out the pistol for me. 15+ years only one pistol was the pistol. I cant shoot those compacts for shit! Smallest gun I can shoot well is my 4013 double stack. I have a 5" mkii. I consider it a small pistol but it has "fullsize" grip.

Good luck, dont waste ammo get help.
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Thanks. B6 NRA Target noted.
 
enbloc said:
When I used to train new shooters. I always started them off close. Nothing worse than watching the joy slip away from someone who can't puncture paper... at first.
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yep. that's how my class of NRA instructors was taught. start people close so they are on paper and don't get too discouraged. I always start close for myself with a new to me gun but even when I go to the range with a gun I have shot many times. I will usually warm up at close range and then move the target out further.
 
The reality is, that most self-defense situations are within arms length or a little further.
Distance training with your carry pistol is very important, but close-up work is your foundation...

Also, I bring old tee shirts and pull them over cardboard in one of my exercises. No sticky orange dots, no pasty targets in the center.
Just an old, worn tee shirt that a human once wore. It changes their perspective...
 
I'm in the more trigger time group.

I remember when I first started and was going to Bob's in Salisbury. Having trouble hitting the target. Went out and asked if they had a way to move the sight. Can't remember his name, I think it was Bob and not Jim, said let me see it. I followed him out to the range. He went to the lane my brother and I were shooting in. Took a loaded mag. Fired 15 rounds in a tight group on a target. Dropped the mag, put the gun on the table, turned, looked at me and said "Nothing wrong with those sights" and walked out.🤣
After a few thousand rounds I was able to put 15 rounds in the black of an NRA 50 yd target at about 30ft. Never did move those sights.
 

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