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S&W Academy?

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I'm local to S&W and looking for my first handgun training course. I'm considering S&W's Academy, but their "Handgun Fundamentals" course is a pre-req for most of their other classes.

Anyone have experience with Smith's training? Or recommendations for certification that would allow me to skip the fundamentals course and move directly to the "advanced" courses?

Thanks!
 
Are you looking for a basic course with state certification for your LTC, or something in defensive/tactical type training? If it's the former, there are a number of courses around western MA. If it's the latter, then S&W is about the only game in the area AFAIK.
 
The latter. LTC is already squared away. I'd read some stuff in this forum about NEShooters and other organizations, and was wondering if their courses were better and/or more cost effective than what S&W offers.
 
I took my cert class at S&W. It would not prepare you for any further classes whatsoever. Our range time was approx 30 or 40 rds, split equally btw revolvers and autos. If they are set on this prereq, I would move on, for you to take their class would be a waste of money.
 
I took my cert class at S&W. It would not prepare you for any further classes whatsoever. Our range time was approx 30 or 40 rds, split equally btw revolvers and autos. If they are set on this prereq, I would move on, for you to take their class would be a waste of money.

If you are referring to the LTC course, that is not a pre-requisite for their other courses. I'm referring to the "Handgun Techniques" course. This is a more hands-on course than the MA LTC Cert is. But again, don't know if it's the best choice, or if $150 is a reasonable price. Seems high for an 8-hour course...
 
Sorry, I misunderstood, I did take their LTC course. Sorry I can't help in regards to SW, but there are other training/trainers here on the forum. You might find a better value. Good luck in your decision.
 
For professional training, $150 for an 8 hour day is well within reason. I've only taken an armorers class with S&W, but I consider that course money well spent.
 
I took the "Handgun Techniques" course with the wife. She didn't want to go alone, not bad entry level instruction. All training is good even if it's going over the fundamentals. As for other classes I find the instructors very professional and worth the money.
 
I've taken courses at the SIG academy and with Jim at NEShooters. The one with Jim, he labels it Defensive Handgun 102 I think, was head and shoulders above the one at SIG. Not that the SIG course was bad and they let you borrow equipment which is cool...

The latter. LTC is already squared away. I'd read some stuff in this forum about NEShooters and other organizations, and was wondering if their courses were better and/or more cost effective than what S&W offers.



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I took a beginning handgun class at S&W at the beginning of my gun ownership a couple years ago and to be kind, it was a terrible class. As someone who is a part time professional trainer who teaches workshops, the S&W instructor did everything a trainer wasn't supposed to do - yelled at students, mocked students for asking questions, and when one of the students expressed safety concerns over certain group drills, instead of assuring the student or trying to understand the student's concern, the instructor replied curtly and rudely and ignored the student's safety concerns. I've since been to the classes up at SIG and have never looked back. Their level of instructors are top notch!
 
@chupa88: wow, that sounds like quite the experience... I hope you got your money back!
I was afraid that might be the case given how legendarily bad their range staff is. I was hoping it was not the same with the folks who do the training.
 
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I took a beginning handgun class at S&W at the beginning of my gun ownership a couple years ago and to be kind, it was a terrible class. As someone who is a part time professional trainer who teaches workshops, the S&W instructor did everything a trainer wasn't supposed to do - yelled at students, mocked students for asking questions, and when one of the students expressed safety concerns over certain group drills, instead of assuring the student or trying to understand the student's concern, the instructor replied curtly and rudely and ignored the student's safety concerns. I've since been to the classes up at SIG and have never looked back. Their level of instructors are top notch!

Yeah, I was in that class with Chupa and it was a bit of a shock. Surprisingly, none of the class members (including Chupa and myself) wanted to get shot during the group drills. When we let the instructor know during a break, he tried to argue with us about it at first, then just gave up "curtly and rudely" (perfectly put). The somewhat more aggravating part, to me, was that the first part of the class almost seemed like a LTC-class all over again (laws, transporting, parts of the firearm/bullet, etc). Not to mention that the info on the S&W site is still wrong regarding the class and prior to attending, I called the Center with some questions and got wrong answers then too. I left very unimpressed with the SSC classes and would really need to convince myself to try it again. I've heard great things about Sig Academy, although from Western MA it's a hike.
 
If you decide to stay overnight, The Old Salt and Lamie Inn is a great place to stay. They give a Sig discount, about 15-20mins away, and have a decent restaurant & bar inside attached to the hotel which makes it quite convenient. That's my goto place to stay now if I am taking a multi-day class.
 
Yeah, I was in that class with Chupa and it was a bit of a shock. Surprisingly, none of the class members (including Chupa and myself) wanted to get shot during the group drills. When we let the instructor know during a break, he tried to argue with us about it at first, then just gave up "curtly and rudely" (perfectly put). The somewhat more aggravating part, to me, was that the first part of the class almost seemed like a LTC-class all over again (laws, transporting, parts of the firearm/bullet, etc). Not to mention that the info on the S&W site is still wrong regarding the class and prior to attending, I called the Center with some questions and got wrong answers then too. I left very unimpressed with the SSC classes and would really need to convince myself to try it again. I've heard great things about Sig Academy, although from Western MA it's a hike.

Took my wife out there, last year for the "First Shots" course, as she had never fired a handgun, on a sunday morning.

When the instructor, John Lynch, started the class with "Good, a small group, we can out of here early" was an ominous warning of what was about to come.

Went to the range, and he had various pistols laid out at each stand. He had each person to come up and dry fire - keep in mind, that most had never held a handgun before, and there was no ammo on the range yet.

When he got to my wife, who has minor residual paralysis in her left hand from a childhood illness, she had some minor difficulty trying to grip a 44. magnum revolver (like that would really be her first gun!!!!), he started screaming at her - she quietly put the gun down, and said she did not want to hold the class up.

Apparently, this was not enough for him. He started yelling and getting very petulant, shaking his head then began pointing at her, in front of the class, yelling "safety hazard - safety hazard!"

My wife had had enough humiliation and degradation from this arrogant person (I will not call him and instructor). She quietly walked out in a dignified manner.

I have no idea, as to how the rest of the class went, but to wife's credit she did not give up, worked with a couple of the guys at the Mansfield club, (Don't teach your wife to drive or shoot, is my motto) and she is doing quite well now. She is confident with her Ruger Blackhawk (notice I did not say S&W) and has no fear of the .357 magnum, after Greg at our club, helped her with her confidence.

Why I am mentioning this is the post asking about S&W training

I do own some S&W guns, and will probably buy a 1911 - can't blame S&W for a bad experience, In my opinion, John Lynch should be promoted to Manager of Customer Prevention. Should anyone wonder, it takes a lot for me to "name names" but this not libel nor slander. It is exactly what happened.

As a side note, I recently had a wonderful experience attending Scouter Rick's Instructor training course. During the course, one of the students doing a practice presentation, obviously affected by nervousness, had Rick jumping and moving to avoid the gun being pointed at him. Rick used this as a very positive teaching experience, and it really hit home with all of us. To me, this is an "INSTRUCTOR".

Wonder how Mr.Lynch would have handled this!!
 
If you decide to stay overnight, The Old Salt and Lamie Inn is a great place to stay. They give a Sig discount, about 15-20mins away, and have a decent restaurant & bar inside attached to the hotel which makes it quite convenient. That's my goto place to stay now if I am taking a multi-day class.
It's been over 5 years since I stayed at the Lamie Inn. I wasn't very impressed when I stayed there, but it has probably changed in the mean time.
 
Wow, this is a real bummer! I've been meaning to take training there since it is basically in my backyard.. and I've been recommending First Shots to my co-workers. As a side note, back when I was getting my LTC, I spoke with John Lawor about training. He seemed very pleasant and thoughtful. Long story short, he couldn't train me privately because he was in the process of becoming an instructor at S&W, and he said it would be a conflict of interest. I got a good vibe from him, so hopefully he's a better instructor than some of the others mentioned. By the way, I see that he teaches the First Shots course at S&W among others.
 
It's been over 5 years since I stayed at the Lamie Inn. I wasn't very impressed when I stayed there, but it has probably changed in the mean time.

I think they've changed management from what I've read/heard. I stayed their two separate nights last fall and the rooms were clean, staff were nice, and on my second night, they even left me a card on the nightstand welcoming me back. These little nice touches are the sign of a good caring business. And the building and rooms have some nice character as well.
 
Chuck, this should be reported to the head of the S&W Academy AND NRA Instruction program. Said instructor would likely be REMOVED from both and lose his teaching credentials (well deserved in a case like this).

Don't blame S&W if they don't know about such instances. I'd only blame them if they were told and did nothing about it. It's each and every individual instructor who makes the experience what it is . . . good or bad. I'm sure that S&W Academy has or had some very fine instructors. Do something to get rid of the bad apple. [Hint: Rick will know the name to contact at NRA HQ.]
 
Curious what course you ended up going with, if any.
I'm considering something in w-mass as well.

I ended up taking the Handgun Techniques class. I had a good time, but the group was fairly inexperienced and the instructor didn't get as much done as he had hoped.

BTW, sorry for the delay in response... I wasn't subscribed to my own thread! (whoops...)

I took a beginning handgun class at S&W at the beginning of my gun ownership a couple years ago and to be kind, it was a terrible class.

Took my wife out there, last year for the "First Shots" course, as she had never fired a handgun, on a sunday morning.

When the instructor, John Lynch, started the class with "Good, a small group, we can out of here early" was an ominous warning of what was about to come.

Sorry to hear that you both had bad experiences. I will say that some of the instructors/range staff are better than others. I like all of them that I've worked with, but there are a couple that rub a lot of people the wrong way (understandably, I think).

After taking my first course, I find that it was a good enough experience that I would like to take another class and see how things pan out. Most of the negatives from the class I attended were due to having a lot of very new shooters in the group. Unfortunately, I was the best shooter by a large margin. My hope is that the next course will have some folks in the group that I could learn from, besides the instructor!
 
The Handgun Fundamentals course is NOT the same as the Mass LTC course, as it is a hands on review of basic shooting techniques. The thing I got out of it, was I had the opportunity to review what I was doing and correct a couple of bad habits which had crept into my shooting.

Although they say that the course is a prerequisite to other courses there, it is best to talk with the actual instructor of the course you want to take. I found in taking another course where Handgun Fundamentals was a supposed prerequisite, others in the class were admitted after talking to the instructor.

For what it is worth, one of the guys in my class was seeking a Maine non Res LTC and the Maine Licensing Authorities wanted proof that he had taken some kind of training with a handgun (he was a pre -1998 Mass LTC holder and was grandfathered from taking the Mass LTC course). He said that this class met the requirement as far as Maine was concerned.

The biggest problem that I have had with S&W is that they will list advanced classes but will not schedule them.

Mark L.
 
Although they say that the course is a prerequisite to other courses there, it is best to talk with the actual instructor of the course you want to take. I found in taking another course where Handgun Fundamentals was a supposed prerequisite, others in the class were admitted after talking to the instructor.

Well, that bites. I could've clepped out...
 
I did the first shots and the second shot program which was awesome, shot all morning for $50.00 with all the M&P's and a couple of revolvers with instruction. I did there LTC CCW course also. Never had an issue. I have gone back a few times with the coupon for there temporary membership and all went well. When I'm ready to take another course I'll be going back to S&W. Sucks to hear these stories, as I said several visits and no problems for me.[rolleyes]

Had a diffrent instructor (forget the names..Lynch sounds fimilar?) everytime all of them were professional.
 
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I did the first shots and the second shot program which was awesome, shot all morning for $50.00 with all the M&P's and a couple of revolvers with instruction.

How "basic" was the second shot thing? And what was actually done?
I'm considering doing it to check them out and see if I'd be interested in going back for other things.... plus I never object to suggestions on technique.

Considering I already shoot a fair bit and am pretty comfortable doing so, would I be bored as hell?

I just kinda figure, even if it does stink, I wouldn't be THAT pissed to be out $50 and 4 hours..... but I wouldn't want to waste my time sitting in a classroom lecture being told what a trigger is, either.
 
How "basic" was the second shot thing? And what was actually done?
I'm considering doing it to check them out and see if I'd be interested in going back for other things.... plus I never object to suggestions on technique.

Considering I already shoot a fair bit and am pretty comfortable doing so, would I be bored as hell?

I just kinda figure, even if it does stink, I wouldn't be THAT pissed to be out $50 and 4 hours..... but I wouldn't want to waste my time sitting in a classroom lecture being told what a trigger is, either.

About 20 minutes or so on safety/techniques (no class room) in the back of the store, they have a couple of couches and a coffee machine. We then went to the range and spent maybe 5 minutes on the firearms, and off we went. We took a break for a few minutes midway thru. The instructor then went over a couple of things, for people that were struggling like jerking/slapping the trigger, (those instructions were for me[smile]) and then back to the range. Don't know how many rounds, lost count. They had a 9, 40, and 45 in the M&P's full size and compact. I know one revolver was a 357 I forget what the other one was. Targets, glasses, hearing protection and hats are included.(can not keep) Hell for fifty bucks not bad in my book. Now that I think about it I spend more going to the range for an hour with my own M&P[shocked]
Edit: They did not have the .45 in compact when I went.
 
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