S&W 642/442

[Laura]

Just curious, I'm not sure airweights are for me but I have to consider something small since I've recently moved in a condo. Can anyone tell me if there are any advantages or disadvantages of the 642 over the 442 or vice versa? I'm sure either gun will really hurt to use but they conceal well. Does anyone know what they go for in this state (Massachusetts)? I usually shop at Coin Collector's or Four Seasons. Thanks.

 

[Lynne]

Just curious, I'm not sure airweights are for me but I have to consider something small since I've recently moved in a condo. Can anyone tell me if there are any advantages or disadvantages of the 642 over the 442 or vice versa? I'm sure either gun will really hurt to use but they conceal well. Does anyone know what they go for in this state (Massachusetts)? I usually shop at Coin Collector's or Four Seasons. Thanks.

I thought about getting one when I was first looking, however I had the chance to take a few shots before buying it. Those lightweights are murder to practice with Laura. There's no weight to lessen the recoil. For defensive purposes, the recoil and bite will lessen your time to reacquire your target. Yes, they're nice and light to carry concealed, but I'd rather "feel" my gun on me and have some heaviness there to lessen the bite. But, that's only my opinion.

 

[DR]

You should be able to pick one up for around $350, give or take a little.

Personally I'd go for the 642. I don't think the dark finish of the 442 buys you anything and the 642 is that much less likely to rust. The 442 generally costs a little more, too.

I usually shoot no more than a box of ammo through mine per range session. That amount is fine for me recoil-wise. If I shoot a couple of boxes I'll notice it the next day.

 

[Laura]

Thanks for the feedback. You know Lynne, I did have the 442 at one time. It was in fact my first gun but I HATED shooting it. It simply terrified me and my hands hurt - I also recall I couldn't hit the side of a barn with it. Fortunately, I did have a Beretta type M so I wasn't turned off completely from guns. I have a LS36 that I plan to use wadcutters with but I've wondered about getting another airweight now that I have more shooting experience under my belt. However, I may actually get a 640/649 before that. I'm like you, weight is a nice thing - one of the reasons I love my SP101 DAO.

 

[M1911]

I've got a 642. It's not much fun to shoot and it's hard to shoot accurately. It is nice for pocket carry. But if you are going to carry in a belt holster or in a purse, you can carry something heavier and easier to shoot. For home defense, get something heavier and with a longer barrel.

 

[Laura]

I've actually been thinking of a S&W model 10 4" for home defense. I'd also like a S&W 64 3" down the road. Maybe I shouldn't worry too much about going with concealable guns for carry since I already have the LS36 and Detective Special? The model 60 2" is also decent enough.

 

[Republic of Mass]

Four seasons has them used, or did on Friday


And what does moving into a Condo have to do with needing a smaller gun?

 

[Jeremiah]

what does moving into a Condo have to do with needing a smaller gun?

Condo associations can pass laws that outlaw guns in the building. Then you HAVE to carry concealed or be caught breaking a law (I don't know how serious it is to break a condo anti-gun law). Most condos don't have bylaws about it because people don't think about it. The best way to avoid some busybody in the building deciding to make gun storage an issue is to not bring attention to your gun possession. I bet Laura wants to choose her battles.

 

[Laura]

That's exactly it, Jeremiah. I don't know what the rules of my condo is - and I don't want to ask - but I owned guns before moving in and I'll continue to own them when I move out. We've pretty much agreed we'll be here for two years and then look for something better so I don't want any nosy busybody asking around while we live here.

 

[Moderator]

They should have given you a list of "do's and don’ts" If it's not there then I don't see why there would be an issue. But I am also a subscriber of the whole "don't ask don't tell" policy.

 

[Laura]

Well then you and me both Typeo. I don't want to rock the boat. I mentioned all of this to my father before we bought it but somehow these questions along with the pet restrictions escaped him. Nothing to be done now so we're just going to sit tight and keep our eyes pealed for something better.

 

[Lynne]

They should have given you a list of "do's and don’ts" If it's not there then I don't see why there would be an issue. But I am also a subscriber of the whole "don't ask don't tell" policy.

If you weren't given a set of the condo doc's then you can't claim prior knowledge, or have to lie if asked.

 

[Laura]

Well, I can certainly claim that as they bought the condo and were privy to all of this - not me. However, my father says he didn't see anything regarding firearms so I suppose we could both claim this then. We're careful not to have range bags with logos or NRA stickers on the cars for this reason and will continue to be careful not to bring attention to ourselves.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Understand how condo associations work . . .

Some busybody sees something that they disagree with, they raise the issue with the BOD of the condo association and the next thing you know, there is a new "rule" against something.

My late Mother-in-Law owned a condo in Ft. Lauderdale for ~20 years and she used to tell us about these problems all the time.

So, regardless of what the rules were when Laura bought the condo, the rules can change in a heartbeat. And they are enforceable in the courts! Violation usually results in fines and eventual eviction from the property.

Laura is right, "don't ask, don't tell"!!

 

[Len-2A Training]

I've actually been thinking of a S&W model 10 4" for home defense. I'd also like a S&W 64 3" down the road. Maybe I shouldn't worry too much about going with concealable guns for carry since I already have the LS36 and Detective Special? The model 60 2" is also decent enough.

Laura,

If you want a small gun, what's wrong with the Detective Special that you already own? It has weight and won't kill your hands to shoot it.

 

[Laura]

That's a good point Len. I'm just wondering though, as it is somewhat heavier being a six shot and having a hammer, if the DAO might have an advantage. As it's also lighter, it may not print as easily either. I'd probably do what I do for my LS 36 - use wadcutters. Assuming I actually decide to buy it, that is, and I haven't decided anything at this point.

 

[Lynne]

I usually find that when a gun feels great in my hand and it talks to me, that's the one I go home with. If you're not sure Laura, then wait. The one that should go home with you will find you. (at least they always found me)

 

[mark056]

"Understand how condo associations work . . . "

Some busybody sees something that they disagree with, they raise the issue with the BOD of the condo association and the next thing you know, there is a new "rule" against something. "

Len,

I have been a condo owner here in Massachusetts since 1993 and there certainly is some truth in your observations. However, one thing to remember that in most cases the only way that by-laws or covenants can be changed is through the vote of the shareholders (property owners). The Board of Directors can usually make operational changes, but anything as drastic as restricting firearms would have to be brought before the entire association as it would require a change in the convenants. Now I am sure that there are some condo association boards of directors out there who have more control and can implement changes without the vote of the majority of the property owners...but I would also suggest that in Massachusetts, this is most likely the exception and not the rule.

I think that Laura is correct in wanting to keep a low profile as a gun owner, as I think we should all keep a low profile as gun owners...why advertise that you are a gun owner ? That doesn't mean that we shouldn't be politically active, but why flaunt property that is a highly desirable target for theft ? To me, it's just common sense. On the other hand she already apparently owns some fairly conealable firearms, so why get something new ?

BTW to those of you who say ignore the rules and say you never read them or saw them and use that as a defense, ignorance of the law is no excuse and the rules or convenants can be upheld in civil court and you can be fined by the association. However, the way that usually works, is that when you sell your condo, whatever is owed in fines, is usually deducted from the sale of the condo and given to the condo association.

No doubt, condo association boards are rife with what my wife and I call "condo nazis" and horror stories about condo boards of directors abound. While I won't minimize this aspect of condo living, and I realize that one should always act prudently as a gun owner, and while Laura's concerns are not wholly unfounded, I think that it might be more difficult to ban firearms in condos it might appear to be.

Regards,

Mark

 

[Len-2A Training]

Mark,

I agree with everything you wrote, however I consider it trivial that they require a vote of owners.

In MA, where most people only know (about guns) what they see on TV news stories, all the BOD has to do is say "it's for safety of the owners, one AD can go thru the walls and kill x people in y number of units!" and I can almost guarantee that a gun ban would pass and become a condo covenant.

That is the best reason to "don't ask, don't tell"!

[When I lived in an apt complex in Waltham, we were given 5 pages of rules on what we could NOT DO! That's why I broke my lease early and bought a house. I make my own rules! It's also why I wouldn't consider buying a condo . . . I don't want more bosses telling me what to do and how I should live.]

 

[dwarven1]

[When I lived in an apt complex in Waltham, we were given 5 pages of rules on what we could NOT DO! That's why I broke my lease early and bought a house. I make my own rules! It's also why I wouldn't consider buying a condo . . . I don't want more bosses telling me what to do and how I should live.]

I lived in an apartment complex in Marlboro many years ago, and while I won't detail the extraordinarily long list of complaints about the landlords, one stands out: They'd moved us from one apt to another (due to an inability of their exterminator to find out where the HORNETS that kept getting into our apt were coming from), and they'd refurbed the new apt before we moved into it... And we found out that they were refurbing all the apartments in the complex. Rumor was that they were going to go condo...

Well, I called them and asked them if we had to have our apt done since we just moved into it. No, not a problem, we didn't have to do that.

Three days later we got a letter telling us that we had to get out of the apt with all our belongings for a minimum of two weeks while they refurbished it.

Getting that letter p*ssed me off so much that Kath & I bought a house and I don't have to worry about that kind of crap ever again. No landlords, thankyouverymuch. No condo associations, no neighborhood associations... If I don't want to mow the lawn for two weeks, I don't have to worry about anyone grumping at me about it except for Kathy.

 

[Grifter]

I live in a condo up here and let me just say it is horrible. I know some people love it, and it might just be my condo area but AHHHH.

Now let me get into it. Yes they have community meetings and everyone is invited to attend, but the only people who ever really go are the busybodies because everyone else has a life they are trying to live. When they have a special meeting to change a rule it is normally done in the middle of the day during a weekday. And it is the owners job to report violations of the rules. But it seems like the busybody group break all the rules by parking their vehicles on the side of the roads every single night, I do it for one hour and I recieved a 200 dollar fine.

I understand the aspect of recieving bids for getting work done, lowest bidder wins. But the association owner keeps giving the contracts to his family it seems. For snow removal I ALWAYS end up doing it myself because I can't wait three days for it to get done, for grass removal it seems they wait until the weeds are eating small children to get anything done. Just last summer the roofing crew they hired almost had one of their employees die. Why? Because my girlfriend caught him staring through the skylight at her in the shower. It took him a half hour to get him to come down off the roof, mostly because he knew I was down there waiting. Not to mention my sports car was slammed by the lawn care companies plow truck. The guy tried telling me it was my fault because it was a silver car and it was snowing out so it wasnt his fault. IT WAS IN MY DRIVEWAY! It had been out there for five minutes so I could get into my attic through the garage. Then I recieved a letter from the condo asociation owner telling me it was my fault because " Obviously not a winter car it shouldn;t have been outside" They all changed their tones when my lawyers called.

Just last week this woman came up to me and told me that my " Cannon" was scaring the neighborhood children and that she was going to call the cops. I couldn't understand what she was talking about until she pointed at my off work carry. But she pointed at it while it was under my suit jacket. Truth be told I always stop by a friends house on my way home and before I go in his house I take it off and put it in my briefcase. It stays there until I get home. This was the FIRST time I ever remember having it on when getting home. ( I leave so early in the morning I could walk out with an AR-15 and a purple tu-tu and noone would notice.)

I told her to go ahead and call the cops and to mind her own business. She started swearing and walked away. Yesterday I saw her husband and his friends walking from the parking area to his house all holding shotguns with no attempt to hide them, he stopped and said Hi ( at least HE is friendly) I asked him if he was forming an army and he replied that he and his friends we just getting ready for hunting season. So thats ok I guess. Maybe if I walk around outside with my weapon drawn it wont scare the kids as much.,

So just today I recieved a letter stating that a neighbor had complained that I had used profanity towards her. Now I wish I had said what I wanted to say to her, because I got into trouble for it anyways.

Sorry for the ranting. 6 more months and Im outta here.

 

[dwarven1]

Now let me get into it. Yes they have community meetings and everyone is invited to attend, but the only people who ever really go are the busybodies because everyone else has a life they are trying to live. When they have a special meeting to change a rule it is normally done in the middle of the day during a weekday. And it is the owners job to report violations of the rules. But it seems like the busybody group break all the rules by parking their vehicles on the side of the roads every single night, I do it for one hour and I recieved a 200 dollar fine.

sounds like you should check the rules yourself. Is there a clause specifying when the meetings have to be held? A quorum that they have to meet? Use the rules to fight back. You just have to learn them first.

As for parking violations... well, a digital camera can be your friend. Take pix of the neighbors cars and report them. Keep a record. Demand to know when/if the fines were paid.

I understand the aspect of recieving bids for getting work done, lowest bidder wins. But the association owner keeps giving the contracts to his family it seems.

You need to look at the bids - can you, as a condo owner, see them? Sounds like grounds for a legal complaint.

Just last summer the roofing crew they hired almost had one of their employees die. Why? Because my girlfriend caught him staring through the skylight at her in the shower.

And you didn't call the police to complain about a peeping tom why?

So just today I recieved a letter stating that a neighbor had complained that I had used profanity towards her. Now I wish I had said what I wanted to say to her, because I got into trouble for it anyways.

Is there a fine for "using profanity to a neighbor"? What can she do? and can you file a lawsuit for harrassment for all this?

If they're using their own rules to harrass you, you should be able to fight back the same way.

Good luck, and you're making me even MORE glad that I have to deal with my own snow removal and leaf clearing and lawn mowing... it all sounds like less trouble than you have living in a condo!

 

[Laura]

We've only been here a week but when I asked my mother if she'll buy another condo somewhere else, she replied, "I don't know." My feeling is that she'd rather another house and the general consus is that we'll be out of here when we can leave. I think there's just too many rules and it's too damn cramped. For me, I'd prefer a house if for no other reasons than my guns and getting another dog someday. I notice they're not particular about keep the handicapp spot open for my father and I don't think there's enough for those that need it.

 

[Len-2A Training]

As a Constable, I've served a number of condo owners with legal notices of fines, intent to collect same or proceed with more serious legal action.

One very nice couple explained to me that their $4K fine all started with a $400 fine for having small rip in a screen and having their deck table not oriented square with the back wall of the house (this was a single family house that had been "condo-ized"). I really felt for them and wish that my Wife could have heard their story.

 

[dwarven1]

Y'know, with every post you guys put in this thread, you're making me gladder and gladder that I didn't take Kath's suggestion that we get a townhouse when we sold our first house. She thought I'd like it since I wouldn't have to do yard work or clear the snow off of the driveway.

$4K in condo fines? I'd be calling my lawyer first.

 

[Grifter]

Now let me get into it. Yes they have community meetings and everyone is invited to attend, but the only people who ever really go are the busybodies because everyone else has a life they are trying to live. When they have a special meeting to change a rule it is normally done in the middle of the day during a weekday. And it is the owners job to report violations of the rules. But it seems like the busybody group break all the rules by parking their vehicles on the side of the roads every single night, I do it for one hour and I recieved a 200 dollar fine.

sounds like you should check the rules yourself. Is there a clause specifying when the meetings have to be held? A quorum that they have to meet? Use the rules to fight back. You just have to learn them first.

As for parking violations... well, a digital camera can be your friend. Take pix of the neighbors cars and report them. Keep a record. Demand to know when/if the fines were paid.

I understand the aspect of recieving bids for getting work done, lowest bidder wins. But the association owner keeps giving the contracts to his family it seems.

You need to look at the bids - can you, as a condo owner, see them? Sounds like grounds for a legal complaint.

Just last summer the roofing crew they hired almost had one of their employees die. Why? Because my girlfriend caught him staring through the skylight at her in the shower.

And you didn't call the police to complain about a peeping tom why?

So just today I recieved a letter stating that a neighbor had complained that I had used profanity towards her. Now I wish I had said what I wanted to say to her, because I got into trouble for it anyways.

Is there a fine for "using profanity to a neighbor"? What can she do? and can you file a lawsuit for harrassment for all this?

If they're using their own rules to harrass you, you should be able to fight back the same way.

Good luck, and you're making me even MORE glad that I have to deal with my own snow removal and leaf clearing and lawn mowing... it all sounds like less trouble than you have living in a condo!

You could have given me something smaller to reply to. lol

Question 1. Yes I have reviewed some of the rules. It does state that if an emergency meeting needs to be held, it can be held at any time. As far as a digital camera it doesnt matter, I have tried complaining, I have called even exactly when the people are doing it, but they never get fined.

Question 2- I have asked to make a personal bid myself before, I was bored and my friend had a roofing business and wanted to see what could happen. he told me that not only could I not bid, but that I couldn't see any bids because as just a residnet, it was none of my business.

Question 3. The cops were called. Not locals but state. They showed up because they know me from working with me. They thought it was hilarious that the guy was too afraid to come down until I went inside. He kept reffering to me as the beast on steroids. Finally when he came down I came outside and started yelling at him. They asked my girlfriend if she wanted to make any charges she asked me. I said no as long as I never saw his face again. ( Can I blame him for sneaking a peek at my girl....hmmmm)

Question 4 - She claims that she felt threatened by me because I raised my voice and was holding a weapon. I made the call and cleared it up the second I got the letter. I told the Condo manager that there is a grave difference between carrying legally and HOLDING a weapon. I told him my lawyers would be in contact unless I received a written explanation of the difference and an apology. I expect it first thing tomorrow.


As far as anything else I am just not going to get involved. I am out of here in 6 short months. I don't care anymore. My next place is going to be a real house, hopefully miles away from people.

 

[dwarven1]

1: Sounds like you should leave.
2: Sounds like you should leave.
3: Your girlfriend is way too forgiving.
4: Sounds like you should leave.

Buy a house, Grifter. It's much easier on the nerves.

 

[Grifter]

1: Sounds like you should leave.
2: Sounds like you should leave.
3: Your girlfriend is way too forgiving.
4: Sounds like you should leave.

Buy a house, Grifter. It's much easier on the nerves.

1. I know.
2. I know.
3. She is. She dates me doesnt she? [twisted]
4. I know.

Soon as I get my work period finished I'm outta here.

 

[Dirtypacman]

642 w/ laser grip

I love it--- very light and easy to conceal in various places from pocket to hip holster.

As stated it leaves a bit to be desired in stopping power and can take some getting used to at the range but for the ease of carry i highly recommend it.

 

[Cptn5spd]

I own a condo and never checked the By-laws for owning a fire arm, but anyways I have an S+W 686 (I love it), and an Astra A70 (kinda sucks), I am not sure if I am braking any By-laws I never cared enough to check but I agree with TypeO and the "Don't ask Don't tell policy"