S&W 500 Magnum

[Titan]

deleted

 

[Titan]

deleted

 

[Titan]

I don't have a 500 Magnum, but I reload and your questions can simply be answered by this:

I can make ammunition that no amount of money can buy. Rifle cartridges that are so perfectly one like the next and so perfectly matched and tuned to the rifle I use them in that no commercial enterprise them could make them for me at anything closely resembling a reasonable price.

Folks should really lighten up.

This is a discussion forum and I wasn't arguing against reloading. I was suggesting that .16 a round for S&W 500 ammo might be too low. I would reload myself if I had room to do it.

 

[Bob J]

I cast (and shoot) two .500 Magnum bullets..... Both are gas checked..... The 385 grain spire point I've pushed to 1800 fps or so and the 350 grain hollow point to about 1700 fps.... The first is straight wheel weight alloy (with a little tin added for fill out) and the second is a 50/50 alloy of range and wheel weight lead.... Both are water dropped with the straight wheel weights coming in around a 22BHN and the 50/50 at around 16 BHN.... My gun has never had any leading with these and is very accurate.....

Questions for those that cast for the 500 (and other high velocity cartridges) - Do you use a hard alloy? Do you use gas checks? What kind of velocities are you pushing the cast bullets at?

 

[gerrycaruso]

I'm not happy with the accuracy of my .500 cast bullet loads but I also cast for .30/30,.30/06,.38/55,.45/60 Winchester and .45/70. Bullets are cast from wheel weights except the .38/55 which are 3 parts wheel weights and 1 part linotype. Some of the .45/70 bullets are plain base but the rest are gas check designs. Velocity runs from 1350fps to about 1600 fps with no leading.

 

[Remsport Mfg]

2 3/4 inch in 500 and 460 both are a rush to shoot. However about three times the expence in ammo cost over the 44 mag.

 

[Marcus5aurelius]

Folks should really lighten up.

This is a discussion forum and I wasn't arguing against reloading. I was suggesting that .16 a round for S&W 500 ammo might be too low. I would reload myself if I had room to do it.

Wow, didn't see that one coming

When people talk about cost of production, they normally only incorporate direct costs (materials, overhead, etc), unless there is an actual payment for their time. You can think of your time being worth whatever you want it to be, so it doesn't really matter. Since reloading is generally used in your free time, it is producing value that would be otherwise be wasting doing whatever you normally do (TV, sleep, eating, etc). I think I would recommend you attach yourself to intravenous feeding device so you won't waste time sitting down to eat or all that costly time for cooking

 

[HooVooLoo]

...I think I would recommend you attach yourself to intravenous feeding device so you won't waste time sitting down to eat or all that costly time for cooking

Seriously. Depends™ is the greatest invention ever. You can crap your pants without leaving the couch while watching crap on TV, and they should be good for 2-3 days worth of crap.

 

[Titan]

Wow, didn't see that one coming

When people talk about cost of production, they normally only incorporate direct costs (materials, overhead, etc), unless there is an actual payment for their time. You can think of your time being worth whatever you want it to be, so it doesn't really matter. Since reloading is generally used in your free time, it is producing value that would be otherwise be wasting doing whatever you normally do (TV, sleep, eating, etc). I think I would recommend you attach yourself to intravenous feeding device so you won't waste time sitting down to eat or all that costly time for cooking

This is real simple. Someone posted that it cost them $.16 to make S&W 500 rounds. My post suggested that the cost was low because other costs were left out.

I also posted that I completely understand all of the intangible values derived from loading, why it's fun etc.

But if anyone really thinks their cost is $.16 per round, I'll take all you're willing to sell me for $.20 per round. That should give whoever takes me up on the offer, a 25% profit on their product.

DOES THAT help you understand the point I was making, or do you just prefer to be a dick?

 

[Marcus5aurelius]

But if anyone really thinks their cost is $.16 per round, I'll take all you're willing to sell me for $.20 per round. That should give whoever takes me up on the offer, a 25% profit on their product.

We shoot. It's what we do.

You can pay $4.00 a round and not have your precious time wasted

 

[ShadeWPI]

$0.16 seems awefully light on reloading costs to me too. My reloading notes are down with the reloading bench, but here are some break downs:

Powder - I don't have the exact number, but seem to recall it being about 38gn or so. That means about 200 reloads per pound of powder.
Large Rifle Primers - I haven't bought these in a little while since I have a good stock, but it's 1 per
Brass - When you buy new brass, it's running about $1.00 / round each. Get 10-12 shots per shell, maybe more.
Bullets - even if your casting your own, you're likely paying something (at least scrap costs) for the lead, and you get 20 bullets / pound.

Even if you manage to get your lead for free, you're likely paying more than $0.16 per reload when you include primer, powder and brass

 

[HooVooLoo]

ENOUGH ALREADY!

Even if it cost you $1 per round if you include intangible "labor time" and all the materials, it saves you $.75 per round over a pre-reloaded. After 100 rounds, that's a $75 savings!

And it saves you $2 per round if you buy a standard factory load of 350-400 grain bullets per cartridge. $100 instead of $300? What is the bloody argument? Reloading your own is less expensive, and worth it if you shoot these rounds a lot! The cost of all the supplies including reloading equipment would allow you to recoup the outlay in 400 or so rounds, and you get the added benefit of having the reloading equipment for other calibers, with a relativley small outlay for the molds/dies!

The end!

 

[Marcus5aurelius]

$0.16 seems awefully light on reloading costs to me too. My reloading notes are down with the reloading bench, but here are some break downs:

Powder - I don't have the exact number, but seem to recall it being about 38gn or so. That means about 200 reloads per pound of powder.
Large Rifle Primers - I haven't bought these in a little while since I have a good stock, but it's 1 per
Brass - When you buy new brass, it's running about $1.00 / round each. Get 10-12 shots per shell, maybe more.
Bullets - even if your casting your own, you're likely paying something (at least scrap costs) for the lead, and you get 20 bullets / pound.

Even if you manage to get your lead for free, you're likely paying more than $0.16 per reload when you include primer, powder and brass

Yes, if you are buying the lead/bullets and throw away brass after 10 shots you will be paying more than $.16/round

ENOUGH ALREADY!

Even if it cost you $1 per round if you include intangible "labor time" and all the materials, it saves you $.75 per round over a pre-reloaded. After 100 rounds, that's a $75 savings!

And it saves you $2 per round if you buy a standard factory load of 350-400 grain bullets per cartridge. $100 instead of $300? What is the bloody argument? Reloading your own is less expensive, and worth it if you shoot these rounds a lot! The cost of all the supplies including reloading equipment would allow you to recoup the outlay in 400 or so rounds, and you get the added benefit of having the reloading equipment for other calibers, with a relativley small outlay for the molds/dies!

The end!

+1

 

[wahsben]

Do you have compensators on the 44's? Also the grips may have something to do with the difference in the feel of the kick.

I have an 8 3/8" .500 that is the most accurate handgun I have ever fired. I've also shot the 4" and the velocity and accuracy came a lot closer to the 8 3/8" than I expected. I also have .44 magnums in 8 3/8" and 4 3/4". With full loads, the .44's kick harder and are not even close in power to the .500. I paid $700 for my .500 at AG guns in Lowell. The guy sold it to me cheap because he had never sold one to anybody and he thought I was crazy for wanting one. I reload for both calibers and many others so ammunition is plentiful and not very expensive. I don't shoot the nuclear loads that EC shoots. I loaded some but I'm too much of a sissy to shoot them. Maybe I'll toughen up and try them this long week end.

 

[Titan]

ENOUGH ALREADY!

Even if it cost you $1 per round if you include intangible "labor time" and all the materials, it saves you $.75 per round over a pre-reloaded. After 100 rounds, that's a $75 savings!

And it saves you $2 per round if you buy a standard factory load of 350-400 grain bullets per cartridge. $100 instead of $300? What is the bloody argument? Reloading your own is less expensive, and worth it if you shoot these rounds a lot! The cost of all the supplies including reloading equipment would allow you to recoup the outlay in 400 or so rounds, and you get the added benefit of having the reloading equipment for other calibers, with a relativley small outlay for the molds/dies!

The end!

For all who haven't read the previous posts to understand what the discussion is about, I'll repeat my offer to buy all the 500 reloads you'll sell me at $.20 per round, providing a 25% profit to anyone whose cost is $.16 cents per round.

I'll also REPEAT for the umpteenth time it isn't pissing on reloading, it's an academic/intellectual argument challenging the notion that anyone's cost of reloading for the 500 is $.16 per round. This is a DISCUSSION forum and this is one form of discussion. Everything you read isn't an attack on what you love!


I can repeat this all endlessly using simpler sentences, if it's still not clear.

 

[HooVooLoo]

For all who haven't read the previous posts to understand what the discussion is about, I'll repeat my offer to buy all the 500 reloads you'll sell me at $.20 per round, providing a 25% profit to anyone whose cost is $.16 cents per round.

I'll also REPEAT for the umpteenth time it isn't pissing on reloading, it's an academic/intellectual argument challenging the notion that anyone's cost of reloading for the 500 is $.16 per round. This is a DISCUSSION forum and this is one form of discussion. Everything you read isn't an attack on what you love!


I can repeat this all endlessly using simpler sentences, if it's still not clear.

I wasn't directing my post to you specifically, Titan. Just to the whole tangent the thread has taken.

And BTW, Titan, I will see your offer, and up it by $.25! I offer $.45 per round!

 

[Titan]

I wasn't directing my post to you specifically, Titan. Just to the whole tangent the thread has taken.

And BTW, Titan, I will see your offer, and up it by $.25! I offer $.45 per round!

Thanks. Apologies to all for the tangent! I never expected it to go beyond my initial comment.

 

[gerrycaruso]

No, I don't have compensators on my .44's. One is a S&W model 29 with an 8 3/8" barrel and the other is an old model Super Blackhawk with a 4 3/4" barrel. What ever you pay for reloads is stilll cheaper than factory ammo and you can always have as much ammo on hand as you want.

 

[Marcus5aurelius]

For all who haven't read the previous posts to understand what the discussion is about, I'll repeat my offer to buy all the 500 reloads you'll sell me at $.20 per round, providing a 25% profit to anyone whose cost is $.16 cents per round.

I'll also REPEAT for the umpteenth time it isn't pissing on reloading, it's an academic/intellectual argument challenging the notion that anyone's cost of reloading for the 500 is $.16 per round. This is a DISCUSSION forum and this is one form of discussion. Everything you read isn't an attack on what you love!


I can repeat this all endlessly using simpler sentences, if it's still not clear.

Why would anyone who reloads their own settle for only 25%?

If you do not cast and reload, you are forced to buy them factory for $4.00/round.
I will offer you $3.90, and keep the $3.74/round for my trouble.

Quick business lesson for you:
You cannot add an arbitrary value to your time unless you are running a business which you will then determine your hourly value based on competing businesses and standards of living. An hourly or yearly wage is only used to determine whether the business venture will be feasible and to calculate profitability of that business venture. The reloads cost $.16 in raw materials. If any of us were trying to sell our goods, which we are not, we could set our "wage" at the standard of living so that we would have enough cash flow to account for our food, living expenses, and inflation/"market basket". A 25% profit would make no sense whatsoever because we could easily make more money doing less work. If it cost us $.16 and we could sell it for $4.00 it would have a difference of $3.74. Or roughly a markup of %2337.5

If we were casting for a full time occupation, we would only have to sell our reloads for under $4.00/round and we would still make a killing. However, if you would like to factor in a completely irrelevant number for labor into our calculations, please let us know whether we are above or below a $4.00/round set price. I'm really curious to see what our reloads really cost

If you still have any response after you read this post, please read it again.

 

[Titan]

Why would anyone who reloads their own settle for only 25%?

If you do not cast and reload, you are forced to buy them factory for $4.00/round.
I will offer you $3.90, and keep the $3.74/round for my trouble.

Quick business lesson for you:
You cannot add an arbitrary value to your time unless you are running a business which you will then determine your hourly value based on competing businesses and standards of living. An hourly or yearly wage is only used to determine whether the business venture will be feasible and to calculate profitability of that business venture. The reloads cost $.16 in raw materials. If any of us were trying to sell our goods, which we are not, we could set our "wage" at the standard of living so that we would have enough cash flow to account for our food, living expenses, and inflation/"market basket". A 25% profit would make no sense whatsoever because we could easily make more money doing less work. If it cost us $.16 and we could sell it for $4.00 it would have a difference of $3.74. Or roughly a markup of %2337.5

If we were casting for a full time occupation, we would only have to sell our reloads for under $4.00/round and we would still make a killing. However, if you would like to factor in a completely irrelevant number for labor into our calculations, please let us know whether we are above or below a $4.00/round set price. I'm really curious to see what our reloads really cost

If you still have any response after you read this post, please read it again.

You should seek therapy.

 

[drgrant]

Of course it can only be that cheap if you don't put any value on your own time. I understand all the reasons why one wouldn't (fun, 'time I'd otherwise waste', etc.), but there IS a value to your time. I'd love to know the cost to reload INCLUDING a cost for the time to acquire the scrap lead, melt it, cast it, clean the brass, trim the brass (if necessary), and load the rounds.

You're barking up the wrong tree with this... big time. S+W .500 commercial ammo is so expensive that you will always make out reloading.... big time.... especially on that caliber.

Further, if smelting/casting really isn't your thing... you can skip all that crap and still save a lot of money, just not quite as much as you would if you were making your own bullets.

-Mike

 

[Titan]

You're barking up the wrong tree with this... big time. S+W .500 commercial ammo is so expensive that you will always make out reloading.... big time.... especially on that caliber.

Further, if smelting/casting really isn't your thing... you can skip all that crap and still save a lot of money, just not quite as much as you would if you were making your own bullets.

-Mike

Mike,

I'll try one last time.

I've said repeatedly that my posts weren't about whether or not reloading is economically worthwhile, fun, etc.

My SOLE POINT, is that nobody can reload 500 S&W rounds for $.16 cents each. WHATEVER THE NUMBER IS, $.16 PER ROUND IS NOT IT!

I really don't know how to say it any more ways, or any more simply. Maybe the english language just isn't my thing.

Geez!

 

[Marcus5aurelius]

You should seek therapy.

God it's like talking to a brick wall.

We recently picked up an 8lb keg for $40 that we found for sale. That's $5/lb. We get approximately 200 reloads from a pound of powder so that comes out to 2.5 cents

Primers are still pretty expensive usually around $30/thousand or 3 cents/each

We make our own gas checks from aluminum or copper strips that come to about 2 cents /each

We get our WW for free because we trade for them, we either trade in scrap for WW or trade brass to people for WW.

We check our brass carefully but have yet to retire any after 20+ reloads. We clean them thoroughly, and do not overload any of the charges.

That comes to 7.5 cents a piece, however that is including the deal we got on the H110 we purchased. I don't know how or why someone who does not reload knows apparently more than everyone else on here.