Royal Bodyguards and Walther Replacement

Laura

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Dennis in MA

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Remember that James Bond upgraded from a .25 Beretta to a .32 PPK. Caliber wars really didn't happen until fairly recent in our history as gun-toting humans. Look at your Nagant Revolvers and M1Carbeeeenz. So using a .380 to protect the Royal Family is no big surprise in 1974.

The Walthers were got rid of overnight
Ah yes. The people that INVENTED the English Language have grammar to match their dental hygiene. LOL


Look at all of it. She's in an un-armored car alone. Forget the gun. In 1974, no one thought anyone would TRY anything. After Dan Cooper and Entebbe and several US hijackings and terrorist attacks and such, it was time to gear up. Not just for the Royals but for everyone.
 

C. Stockwell

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Remember that James Bond upgraded from a .25 Beretta to a .32 PPK. Caliber wars really didn't happen until fairly recent in our history as gun-toting humans. Look at your Nagant Revolvers and M1Carbeeeenz. So using a .380 to protect the Royal Family is no big surprise in 1974.

Ah yes. The people that INVENTED the English Language have grammar to match their dental hygiene. LOL

Look at all of it. She's in an un-armored car alone. Forget the gun. In 1974, no one thought anyone would TRY anything. After Dan Cooper and Entebbe and several US hijackings and terrorist attacks and such, it was time to gear up. Not just for the Royals but for everyone.
Two really poor examples that don't form a rule.

The Russians adopted the M1895 Nagant revolver because it was cheap and they already had a working relationship with Emile Nagant from the M1891 rifle contract. The Nagants were the lowest bidding contractors. The Russians also went out of their way to make the gun trials as complicated as possible. For one, the Russians required the test guns to have a manual ejector like a Colt SAA. In the 1890s. When the C96 came out the next year. Sweden and Switzerland had also already adopted the M1887 Nagant.

The M1 Carbine was a PDW. It wasn't used like a rifle. It wasn't intended to be used by frontline infantry, although guys like paratroopers used them because try jumping with a Garand and the folding stock Garands sucked. A cook or a trucker was better off with a bigger mag of easier to shoot ammo than eight rounds of .30-06. Putting a carbine in the hands of a trucker means one more Garand available for troops on the frontline.

Caliber wars certainly did exist at the time but were not as relevant in pocket pistols because of bullet technology - you would've been carrying FMJ at the time and your options were .25ACP for deep concealment, .32ACP as a backup gun, or .380ACP as the biggest option. The 1911 and Webleys in .455 are examples of caliber wars. The US used .38 Colt New Services in the Spanish American War and loved them so much that they demanded a .45-caliber semi-auto, which evolved into the 1911. The Brits never had an interest in anything below .45" until WW1 - if you look at early Webley semi-auto pistols, they were all developed in .455 Webley Auto because the Brits had no intention of dropping down to .38/.355 caliber.

Even 9x19 is the result of a caliber war. The Swiss adopted the Luger in 7.65x21 but the Germans simply didn't want such a small bore diameter handgun. So Georg Luger developed 9x19 from 7.65x21 and the result is the most popular handgun round... ever?
 
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JDL

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For the longest time the Eastern European Block country police firearm calaber was 32acp. CZ Scorpiens for the police we're only in 32acp. No civilian s we're suppose to have guns so large calabers were not needed
 

Dennis in MA

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you're looking at the grammar rules written by an american. [wink]
Again - they invented the bloody thing, get right-peevy when we c-word it up and then bollox the whole thing straight up every chance they get. I think their patent has expired and we should take it over. LOL

Two really poor examples that don't form a rule.

The Russians adopted the M1895 Nagant revolver because it was cheap and they already had a working relationship with Emile Nagant from the M1891 rifle contract. The Nagants were the lowest bidding contractors. The Russians also went out of their way to make the gun trials as complicated as possible. For one, the Russians required the test guns to have a manual ejector like a Colt SAA. In the 1890s. When the C96 came out the next year. Sweden and Switzerland had also already adopted the M1887 Nagant.

The M1 Carbine was a PDW. It wasn't used like a rifle. It wasn't intended to be used by frontline infantry, although guys like paratroopers used them because try jumping with a Garand and the folding stock Garands sucked. A cook or a trucker was better off with a bigger mag of easier to shoot ammo than eight rounds of .30-06. Putting a carbine in the hands of a trucker means one more Garand available for troops on the frontline.

Caliber wars certainly did exist at the time but were not as relevant in pocket pistols because of bullet technology - you would've been carrying FMJ at the time and your options were .25ACP for deep concealment, .32ACP as a backup gun, or .380ACP as the biggest option. The 1911 and Webleys in .455 are examples of caliber wars. The US used .38 Colt New Services in the Spanish American War and loved them so much that they demanded a .45-caliber semi-auto, which evolved into the 1911. The Brits never had an interest in anything below .45" until WW1 - if you look at early Webley semi-auto pistols, they were all developed in .455 Webley Auto because the Brits had no intention of dropping down to .38/.355 caliber.

Even 9x19 is the result of a caliber war. The Swiss adopted the Luger in 7.65x21 but the Germans simply didn't want such a small bore diameter handgun. So Georg Luger developed 9x19 from 7.65x21 and the result is the most popular handgun round... ever?
My point is expediency and concern of caliber wars overall, not specific examples. M1Carbeenz were expedient, but not nearly as effective. (To be fair, by your example, they were 100x better off with a grease gun. No need for a 3rd ammo caliber. Cheaper to make. Smaller.). Nagant revolvers - same thing. Honestly - a bit of mental effort and a better solution could have been found in both cases. But expedient seemed expedient until it wasn't. (Hence the Nagant eventually gave way to the 9mmMak (a hot 380 round) and the retiring of the M1Carbine.)

Same with the Royal bodyguards. Who had kidnapped a Princess in the previous 30 years? Anyone?? Forget the inadequate 380. How about no armor, no security detail, nothing. My point is that it was part of a "well, you've got a bloody gun, you're fine" mentality that SEEMED ok even in 1974. Sure all hell was breaking loose world-wide, but no one was attacking the Royals, so it's fine. Suddenly, one GOT attacked and it was a complete rebuild overnight. As is often the case. (See: US airport security pre- and post- September, 2001.)
 

Dennis in MA

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Probably a KFC spork is the weapon of choice now.
For MaryKate and Harry, I'm thinking a blazing hot cup of Tim Hortons and a moose is their new security. (I don't follow their names. Harry, William, Steve, Irwin. All I know is the Royal Yoko looks pretty hot.)
 

appraiser

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well they didn't do such a great job of protecting Lord Mountbatten in 1979 either, but then again I am a bit partial towards my fellow Irishmen
 
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