Road Rage & Firearm Self Defense Question

[Leadbeard]

This weekend a friend of mine explained an incident he had on the highway recently and asked me for my opinion and it's been on my mind ever since. I honestly had no idea what to say. Basically, he was in the left lane and another driver came up on his car very fast and started flashing his high beams to signal for him to get out of the way. Evidently he didn't move over fast enough because as soon as he put on his blinker and started to move over, he realized the other motorist had already decided to try passing him on the right as he narrowly missed him and pulled back into the left lane to let him pass. After the guy passed he then finished his move into the right lane. At that point the other motorist brake checked him hard, signaled right and then started pulling off to the side of the road as if to invite a confrontation. Concerned that this guy would side swipe him as he passed he also signaled and pulled off the road in order to keep the threat in front of him. At this point he pulled his CCW and discretely racked it to chamber a round (he doesn't like to carry with one in the pipe, I personally do and told him as much) and re-holstered in case things got ugly. Once they had both stopped the other motorist proceeded to put his car in reverse and started backing up towards him at a high rate of speed. He decided that the best course of action would be to get out of there so he stomped on it, went around the motorist coming at him in reverse as he merged back on the highway leaving the other guy behind him. Of course, the road raging motorist decided to speed way up to catch up with him, passed him on the left while my buddy just ignored him and stayed in the right hand lane at a reasonable speed until the guy passed.

His question to me was "What would you have done?". Immediately the thought went through my head that when stopped on the side of the road I might have considered getting out of my vehicle, got behind it on the right for cover, and pulled my weapon. My next thought however is that's probably an over-reaction and in MA he'd probably be arrested for brandishing or some such thing even if that backed the guy off and ended the threat without a shot being fired. That being said, if the guy reversed into his car or exited and came at him in a threatening manner or had a weapon himself I can see this whole scenario turning into a complete shitshow so in the end I think he did the right thing by avoiding confrontation as best he could. I also told him I would have got his plate and called the police. He said he tried to remember it but his adrenaline was going and he couldn't. Interested to hear opinions on this kind of scenario.

 

[PaulR]

This is why I keep my mace right in the drivers door pocket.

This way the cops would have a good laugh with me, rather than cuffing me, stuffing me, and taking all my toys away.

 

[not new guy]

I wouldn't have pulled over with the dude. That was pretty stupid. Road rage encounters like this typically require two morons if things are going to escalate.

 

[Picton]

Your friend is a dumbass.

He's a dangerously shitty driver for camping out in the left lane.

He's Darwin-level stupid for deciding to pull over with the rager.

He was in a car. The correct answer is "drive away."

 

[M125X]

Don't drive in the left lane unless passing...

But on a more serious note, never pull over for someone... That is just asking for a confrontation.

 

[jhblaze1]

I wouldn't have stopped....the cops and court would have seen that as a mutual agreement to have a confrontation. I'd have let the ****er side swipe me if he wanted to and then I'd sue him out of house and home.

Road rage never ends well...the cops and courts just assume both parties are stupid knuckleheads. Dash cams are a good idea!


I had an incident the other day going to work entering a two "lane" rotary in revere. I was in the left lane waiting to pull into the rotary and some guy was in the right lane right next to me also waiting. When clear we both proceeded to enter the rotary. The expectation at this rotary is that you stay in the lane you were in (all roads entering the rotary have 2 lanes, so if you're in the left lane you take the inside track in the rotary). Anyway this lunatic starts freaking out laying on the horn, cuts me off and then slams his breaks on. I almost nailed him. he then starts going again, SUPER SLOW, and when I tried to go around him he moved over in front of me and slammed his breaks on again. I exited the rotary at my normal exit and he actually raced around the rotary again to follow me, pulls up next to me at the light and is screaming something at me. I honestly have no idea what he was ever so mad about. And I truly amazed myself at keeping calm and not engaging him because I really wanted to get out of the car and ****ing destroy him. 100% of the whole incident was his fault, he was the sole aggressor, but I know if he had pulled over and then I did too a fight likely would have occurred and the court would **** me just as hard as they'd **** him.

There's NEVER a winner in a road rage incident. Best to just keep driving. If they hit you, get the plate and let the cops handle it.

- - - Updated - - -

Your friend is a dumbass.

He's a dangerously shitty driver for camping out in the left lane.

He's Darwin-level stupid for deciding to pull over with the rager.

He was in a car. The correct answer is "drive away."

hahah ^this. People who camp in the left lane should be euthanized!

 

[Lank]

I agree that pulling over was not a good idea....

too much to lose nowadays

 

[pupchow]

He should sell the Volvo.

 

[not new guy]

 

[MAGG]

I wouldn't have pulled over with the dude. That was pretty stupid. Road rage encounters like this typically require two morons if things are going to escalate.

ding Ding Ding winner

 

[wahsben]

If he was passing cars in the passing lane I would say the one flying up on his ass is the dumbass. Now if he wasn't passing cars and was just driving in the left lane, yes he's a dumbass. He said he moved over but the other person was in such a rush that they were already passing on the right. That driver sounds like a reckless driver. The friend was dumb for pulling over. You can't drive away when the other person is in a car chasing after you unless your car is much faster.
I would have started taking video of this person which might have caused them to stop their raging behavior and if it didn't I'd most likely call 911 and report the behavior of this reckless driver.

Your friend is a dumbass.

He's a dangerously shitty driver for camping out in the left lane.

He's Darwin-level stupid for deciding to pull over with the rager.

He was in a car. The correct answer is "drive away."

 

[Leadbeard]

Dumbass or not it's hard to know what the right thing to do in the moment is (or what exact details I don't have) but I do think there's some reasonable logic in him trying to keep the guy in front and at a safe distance. I know him to be a pretty level-headed person and in the end he did drive away so there's that.

Your friend is a dumbass.

He's a dangerously shitty driver for camping out in the left lane.

He's Darwin-level stupid for deciding to pull over with the rager.

He was in a car. The correct answer is "drive away."

 

[RImike]

Highway incidents like this concern me far less than being boxed in and having someone approach your window, such as in down town city with limited escape options. Generally having situation awareness and having an exit strategy, even if your at a stop sign for 3 seconds and the solution is to get you of there in a safe manner without putting others in harms way I think about. Just a few days ago I was distracted and a pan handler knocked on my window in an aggressive manner which I wasn't prepared for and almost drew.

 

[Leadbeard]

I think that's a really good point.

I wouldn't have stopped....the cops and court would have seen that as a mutual agreement to have a confrontation.

 

[kevin9]

Stay right except to pass. Pulling over was not wise. Good that he smartened up enough to drive away and ignore the rager thereafter. Also good that he holstered his CCW and didn't display it or place it on the seat for "easy access". Hopefully he's learned to carry with one in the pipe so he doesn't have to fiddle with drawing, racking, and re-holstering in the future.

 

[robjax]

just slow down until they get bored and leave.

But it is quite annoying.....and now it is also against the law to camp in the left lane on a highway.

So tell your buddy to bone up on the driving laws.

 

[Glockster30]

Dumbass or not it's hard to know what the right thing to do in the moment is (or what exact details I don't have) but I do think there's some reasonable logic in him trying to keep the guy in front and at a safe distance. I know him to be a pretty level-headed person and in the end he did drive away so there's that.

Yes, keeping the other driver in front of him at a safe distance is the proper thing to do. Pulling over on the side of the highway to confront him? As others have said in this thread, no f**king way should he do that.

 

[knfmn]

His question to me was "What would you have done?"

Kept right on driving. Why would you willingly pull over when you're in a perfectly viable means of escape? That's going to go over like a lead balloon if things escalate and you wind up in court. "So, Mr. Motorist, the victim pulled over on the side of the road after attempting to pass you? What did you do then?" "Well, sir, I pulled my car over and I pulled out my pistol and chambered a round, then got out of the car. The other guy got out of his car and came back toward me, so I shot him. I had no idea that he just had to pee really bad and was trying to get home, then realized he couldn't make it and was going to run into the woods on the side of the road to go." Your friend was really stupid and is lucky that things didn't go south in a hurry while he was trying to play Billy Badass with some random stranger, IMO.

Your idea to exit your vehicle and try to use it for cover is a terrible idea as well. Which scenario do you think is going to end best for you, some random guy smacking into your car with his car while driving 20MPH max, or said random dude smacking into your squishy body while doing 20MPH?

I'm not intending to be a complete ass here, I'm just trying to critique the whole incident honestly. The solution for 99.78% of all problems that occur while you are carrying a firearm is to avoid the situation if at all possible. Some dude gets pissed at me because he doesn't like me driving a silver car and being in the lane he wants to be in? That's cool....I'm just going to keep driving. He's pulling over? Good luck getting back on the highway in MA. He's following me? Pull out the cellphone and call the cops. Give them the license plate number off his car.

Do not escalate things unnecessarily. It will not end well. Real life isn't like the movies where two guys fire a hail of bullets at each other and only wind up with a flesh wound on their arm. In real life, when one or more people pull out loaded firearms and start pulling the trigger, people are likely to die and, in this case for sure, they would be dying for really stupid reasons. Nobody ever died from wounded pride because some yahoo told them that their mother was the town pump. The only thing that matters is that you make it home to the wife/husband/kids/pets at the end of the day. Nobody you love wants to see you in a box because you decided to be a stud.

 

[42!]

Your friend is a dumbass.

He's a dangerously shitty driver for camping out in the left lane.

He's Darwin-level stupid for deciding to pull over with the rager.

He was in a car. The correct answer is "drive away."

Mostly this. But your friend should have just kept driving. By stopping he shows that he was looking for a confrontation just as much as the other guy. You may want to think about how you'd react as well. "Immediately the thought went through my head that when stopped on the side of the road I might have considered getting out of my vehicle" Two problems here. First is that you didn't immediately think that you would have just kept going, and the second is that your first choice was to further escalate the situation.

I'll give you credit for posting this. Thinking about the "what if" will help if it does happen. If you can add some objective examination of your own, potential, actions you'll make the right choice if something does happen.

 

[Leadbeard]

I don't disagree with any of this.

Kept right on driving. Why would you willingly pull over when you're in a perfectly viable means of escape? That's going to go over like a lead balloon if things escalate and you wind up in court. "So, Mr. Motorist, the victim pulled over on the side of the road after attempting to pass you? What did you do then?" "Well, sir, I pulled my car over and I pulled out my pistol and chambered a round, then got out of the car. The other guy got out of his car and came back toward me, so I shot him. I had no idea that he just had to pee really bad and was trying to get home, then realized he couldn't make it and was going to run into the woods on the side of the road to go." Your friend was really stupid and is lucky that things didn't go south in a hurry while he was trying to play Billy Badass with some random stranger, IMO.

Your idea to exit your vehicle and try to use it for cover is a terrible idea as well. Which scenario do you think is going to end best for you, some random guy smacking into your car with his car while driving 20MPH max, or said random dude smacking into your squishy body while doing 20MPH?

I'm not intending to be a complete ass here, I'm just trying to critique the whole incident honestly. The solution for 99.78% of all problems that occur while you are carrying a firearm is to avoid the situation if at all possible. Some dude gets pissed at me because he doesn't like me driving a silver car and being in the lane he wants to be in? That's cool....I'm just going to keep driving. He's pulling over? Good luck getting back on the highway in MA. He's following me? Pull out the cellphone and call the cops. Give them the license plate number off his car.

Do not escalate things unnecessarily. It will not end well. Real life isn't like the movies where two guys fire a hail of bullets at each other and only wind up with a flesh wound on their arm. In real life, when one or more people pull out loaded firearms and start pulling the trigger, people are likely to die and, in this case for sure, they would be dying for really stupid reasons. Nobody ever died from wounded pride because some yahoo told them that their mother was the town pump. The only thing that matters is that you make it home to the wife/husband/kids/pets at the end of the day. Nobody you love wants to see you in a box because you decided to be a stud.

 

[Leadbeard]

The only reason that I had that thought was that if already stopped, who's to say that you can easily get back on the highway and if this guy decides to come at him I think I'd rather be outside a vehicle than in. I don't think I would have stopped in the first place.

Mostly this. But your friend should have just kept driving. By stopping he shows that he was looking for a confrontation just as much as the other guy. You may want to think about how you'd react as well. "Immediately the thought went through my head that when stopped on the side of the road I might have considered getting out of my vehicle" Two problems here. First is that you didn't immediately think that you would have just kept going, and the second is that your first choice was to further escalate the situation.

I'll give you credit for posting this. Thinking about the "what if" will help if it does happen. If you can add some objective examination of your own, potential, actions you'll make the right choice if something does happen.

 

[amm5061]

Get the plate number and keep driving; never pull over to stop. Call the cops and report the ****er, though they probably won't bother following up on it unless he actually hits you. And most importantly: always carry with one in the chamber.

Anything less than fleeing while pissing yourself is gonna get you jammed up good in this state.

 

[Picton]

Dumbass or not it's hard to know what the right thing to do in the moment is (or what exact details I don't have) but I do think there's some reasonable logic in him trying to keep the guy in front and at a safe distance. I know him to be a pretty level-headed person and in the end he did drive away so there's that.

I disagree.

The right thing is to just drive away. That's all, nothing more, nothing less. Just drive away.

In the right lane, please.

 

[Chet0729]

Just keep driving, there is no point in confronting someone over driving habits.
As a side note there is nothing that pisses me off more than someone flashing their lights behind me.
It is hard to judge the driver without knowing how fast he was going, If he was already doing 75-80 and that wasn't fast enough for mr flash, tough for Mr flash. If he was doing 65 or less in the left lane then he was in the wrong.

 

[jhblaze1]

Yes, keeping the other driver in front of him at a safe distance is the proper thing to do. Pulling over on the side of the highway to confront him? As others have said in this thread, no f**king way should he do that.

hardly possible in any case where the aggressor doesn't want to be kept in front of you...like this one where he pulled over and even threw it in reverse.

This right thing to do would have been to keep going when ****face pulled over.

Pulling over was about the worst thing he could have done. You have no idea who this person is and what they're capable of, how mentally unstable they might be and what they might be armed with. It's really hard to claim self defense though, when you pull over.

 

[MAGG]

guy had a 4000 thousand pound weapon trying to attack your friend with...think of it that way

 

[spt_1955]

He should have shot him. Then one ******* would be dead and a dangerous moron with a gun would be in jail... I'd feel much safer.

 

[peterthefish]

Your friend is a dumbass.

He's a dangerously shitty driver for camping out in the left lane.

This.

Don't drive in the left lane unless passing...

And this.

Stay right except to pass.

Also this.

But it is quite annoying.....and now it is also against the law to camp in the left lane on a highway.

So tell your buddy to bone up on the driving laws.

This too.

The right thing is to just drive away. That's all, nothing more, nothing less. Just drive away.

In the right lane, please.

Some of this.

Just keep driving, there is no point in confronting someone over driving habits.
As a side note there is nothing that pisses me off more than someone flashing their lights behind me.
It is hard to judge the driver without knowing how fast he was going, If he was already doing 75-80 and that wasn't fast enough for mr flash, tough for Mr flash. If he was doing 65 or less in the left lane then he was in the wrong.

65, 75, or 85, he was wrong because he had room to move to the right lane when he saw the car approaching.

If you have people flashing their lights at you with any regularity you're a moron. 75 on 95 between RI and 93 you might as well be standing still. Move the **** over.

 

[bigbravehog]

A few years back, I had someone pull up to the side of my car, flip the bird and screamed obscenities at me. I just moved along and he followed me. I was taught long ago to never get out of a car, so I drove straight to the police station and he pulled away. Up until that day, I had rarely carried. I learned my lesson.

 

[kevin9]

..If he was already doing 75-80 and that wasn't fast enough for mr flash, tough for Mr flash. If he was doing 65 or less in the left lane then he was in the wrong.

Doesn't matter how fast he was going. If it was safe to more over, he should have. The fact the rager behind him was able to move over and start to pass indicates there probably was room for him to get over and out of the way. If one is in the left lane and it's safe to pull over and one doesn't, they're in the wrong regardless how fast one is going. There's always someone who wants to go faster than you, move over and let them, or one is part of the problem.