Riverside IDPA

[Ozman]

Thanks Darius. I found the link and sent a subscribe message.

Saw the results. The tag line from the Pirelli ad from a few years ago "Speed is Nothing Without Control" seems to ring true here...

Very cool to see it all laid out on paper.

Steve

 

[38supermatt]

Sounds like fun AND good practice. I like this better than IPSC. I'm not impressed with those boys. Squib shooting, sneaker and shorts wearing clowns that would choke with real loads in a real situation.

HA! Spoken just like a little (insert synonym for a female dog here).

Let's see... IDPA allows for a low power factor of only 125 for 3 of it's 5 divisions. IPSC allows that low a power factor for only Production division to get full value of points shot.

So you tell me who would choke with real loads in a "real situation"
Probably the guy struggling to hold onto his mag that has one round left.

You're only not impressed because you don't have the skills.
It's easy to claim you're not impressed by what you can't do.
Jealousy does that to people.

 

[Dan S]

Matt,
They don't realize that if it has a score sheet, it's a GAME!

 

[Rob Boudrie]

IPSC

Sounds like fun AND good practice. I like this better than IPSC. I'm not impressed with those boys. Squib shooting, sneaker and shorts wearing clowns that would choke with real loads in a real situation.

You may not be impressed with those boys, but some of the real world operators are.

A number of Grand Master IPSC shooters make a big chunk of their living teaching US Federal law enforcement ; US Military and foreign government agencies. One recent email reply I received from a big name IPSC shooter came for Iraq where he was on an instructional assignment. Another big name IPSC person I deal with on a regular basis is frequently "out of country" on training assignments. When an FBI agent I met socially mentioned one of the guest instructors it was a familiar name from the IPSC world.

Would you be able to give a list of name of people from other handgun shooting sports who have never held a law enforcement or military position who are welcomed as paid guest instructors by elite agencies due to their performance in that sport? My IPSC list starts Garcia, Voigt, Burkett, Barnhart, Jarrett (with due respect to those I missed). [ There is a chance one of these is a leo/mil veteran, but I know that at least most of them are not ]

As to "squib shooting"

I just completed some consulting for an ammo company (www.precisiondeltasales.com) on loads for IPSC competition. This involved identifying which factory loads could not even be used for IPSC matches because they were not sufficiently powerful, and test evaluations of a couple of new loads they had to develop to meet the power factor requirements since the stardard 40 S&W load was not hot enough. My efforts resulted in the conclusion that their 115gr 9mm load is not sufficient for IPSC competition (even at minor power factor), and the addition of two new 40S&W major power factor loads to their product line.

I had previously been involved in a similar project for one of the big "name brand" ammo companies (cancelled since the IPSC proponent left that particular company), and they also had the same power factor issues.

As to "choking" ....

IPSC has a wide variety of people whose gun skills range from "basic" to "world class". I have no doubt there is a similar range in the ability of individuals to handle a real situation without choking (the same can be said for other shooting sports and perhaps even police departments). I would not expect Phil Strader (US Capitol Police), Julie Goloski (Sgt. USAMU, ret., curently at Glock), Travis Tomsie (USAMU) or Max Michel (USAMU) to "choke", nor would I expect choking from Dave Sevigny (Glock) who can stay cool under the greatest of pressure and always shoot smoothly and at a top level - despite a lack of police/military experience in his background.

Now about that "not impressed" comment...

Have you personally gone up against M and GM class IPSC shooters and proven your ability to engage targets accurately at speed more competently than them, or are you simply more skilled by verbal assertion? Can you reload a semi-auto handgun and have the first round after the reload fired, and on target, before the magazine you dropped (without the "tactical reload" that virtually no law enforcement agency teaches) hits the ground? Many of the GM's can do this on demand. Or are we talking about a case where you are "not impressed" because you can verbally assert that you have a higher level of skill, but competition does not effectively measure said skill?

As to other action/defense style sports ...

I would never be so presumptive as to categorically state that I am "not impressed" by practicioners of other sports. It's just plain silly to assume that someone is less skilled because they play a different game. This reminds me of those martial artists who make absurd claims like "Any brown belt in my style can beat any black belt in your style". It's also silly to assert that a game gives any real indicaiton of how someone will behave when an adversary is trying to harm them. All the "games" do is develop shooting skills so they become second nature.

It's the individual's skills which are either impressive or not, not the arena in which those skills are being demonstrated.

Rob Boudrie
USPSA Area 7 Director
(USPSA is the US IPSC member region)

 

[GTOShootr]

Sounds like fun AND good practice. I like this better than IPSC. I'm not impressed with those boys. Squib shooting, sneaker and shorts wearing clowns that would choke with real loads in a real situation.

It is obvious this is a statement with nothing to back it up. I'm not too worried about people taking it as the truth about IPSC/USPSA. It is just not a nice thing to see when you put as much time into it as some of us do. If it were true, there wouldn't be AMU, Air Force, and Navy endorsed IPSC shooting teams, etc. It is simply a very fun game that will sharpen your shooting skills to a very high level.

Also, I think it is important to note that the statement does not look like a point of view displayed by any of the actual Riverside IDPA shooters. It was unfortunately just stuck in their thread as a jab. I don’t rule out the possibility of ever shooting IDPA in the future, I wouldn’t hesitate to go to Riverside as a place to start. They seem like good, enthusiastic guys putting on good matches.

Steve

 

[Lynne]

Mother Mod hat on....

To those that responded to Nickle's comments. Please keep one thing in mind - he's up in VT. The shooters he referred to may well be as he described.

Please remember that not all gun owners act responsible or take their "sport" as seriously as some of us do, no matter what venue it takes.

Slap shots may well be allowed in hockey, but they aren't allowed here.

Hat off.

 

[TY43215]

I can only echo what has been posted by Matt, Rob, and Steve. All the shooting sports have a great benefit to all. It is only as good as what the shooter puts into it and takes away from it.

And a side note for Lynne: The Green Mountain Shooters in VT are a class act group. The above names and this poster have all shot there too.

As far as Riverside, Great group, excellent program, wish their schedule did not conflict with mine but there is always this season

regards,

Gary
TY43215
A10014
USRA
ICORE
NRA LIFE

And anything else that allows me trigger time.

 

[Hamar]

I know everybody has an opinion and not to tinkle in somebodies cheerios here but, I've been back to shooting USSPA/IPSC matches now for almost 1 year. I'm not setting the world on fire or anything but one thing is fer certain. The gun I'm shooting is not a multi thousand dollar custom blaster and the full factory 230 gr ball .45 ammo I've been shooting at every match is FAR beyond the IPSC power factor minimum. Hardly a "squib" load and I am not finishing last by any means.

I suggest, come on out, give it a try, then make an experienced and qualified statement.

IPSC/IDPA 6 to one half of a dozen to me. They are both a game. Both have some pro's and con's. All that really matters is that somebody is out on the range, shooting and becomming more proficiant with a side arm. Along with developing better gun handling skills they are having fun.

 

[Chris]

Hamar, you have it 100% right...

Riverside became IDPA affiliated NOT because of personality conflicts with IPSC. In fact many of the original Riverside shooters took Rob's course (Which I HIGHLY recommend to any shooter wanting to try the action sports) because we wanted to learn about action pistol shooting.

Our decision to go IDPA came from a 2 year test of various 'action shooting' gatherings. We'd go out and have some fun setting up and shooting under various rule sets and in the end, we adopted the IDPA rules by a majority vote. I admit that there was probably some bias as we didn't have a lot of equipment back then to really give things a fair shake. But if we were not comfortable running an IPSC match, then do you think we'd have good IPSC matches?

As it was, I didn't think we were all that comfortable running the first IDPA matches, and was amazed that people even showed up!

In fact, one of the points made when we made the decision to be an IDPA club was that there are already two IPSC clubs (Hopkington and Harvard) in the area, so we could offer something different. (this was before Harvard held their first IDPA shoot)

One of the reasons the YAHOO group is "Riverside Action Shoots" is becuase in the beginning we didn't know at all what kind of 'action' we wanted.

But no matter what we did, do, or don't do, there will be those with other ideas. I learned early on that it pays to embrace new ideas. Some of the best match directors Riverside has seen came into it after complaining about something they didn't like. Instead of taking a hit on my own ego, I encouraged them to run with the idea and try it. In the end, Riverside has a better program because of it.

I get flack all the time from IDPA shooters over the amount of cover we tend to have at Riverside. Well, the majority of our match directors come from a defensive pistol background and look to stage shoots that closely resemble 'real' scenrios. In other clubs, their Match Directors do things differently. Does that make either of us wrong? Not at all. Different people will make for different ideas in how games are played. As we grow, I hopw we can continue to attract new shooters who bring their own creativity to the mix and the program grows with fresh new ideas.

In the end, that kind of variety is nothing but healthy.

 

[Admin]

Re: IPSC

Can you reload a semi-auto handgun and have the first round after the reload fired, and on target, before the magazine you dropped (without the "tactical reload" that virtually no law enforcement agency teaches) hits the ground? Many of the GM's can do this on demand.

Rob,

I have got to see some video of that. Is there any place I can find some?

Derek

 

[Rob Boudrie]

dupe deleted

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Hamar, you have it 100% right...

Riverside became IDPA affiliated NOT because of personality conflicts with IPSC. In fact many of the original Riverside shooters took Rob's course (Which I HIGHLY recommend to any shooter wanting to try the action sports) because we wanted to learn about action pistol shooting.

For the record, Chris is a perfect gentleman and none of my comments were indended to reflect negatively upon either himself, IDPA shooters or the Riverside club.

But one minor trivia detail - Hopkinton is not a USPSA/IPSC club, but an unaffiliated club which holds practice sessions and an occasional course. We don't have enough outdoor ranges to run a regular IPSC program (certainly not when there are clubs like Harvard around with multiple outdoor ranges).

There is a video of Travis Tomasie doing a speed reload, and one of Matt Burkett doing the "shot off before the mag hits the ground." I'll do som research and see if I can find them.