RISK OF COMING TO MASS GUNSMITH

The person who created AFS as his dream business sadly died suddenly a few years after he started the business. He left his best friend as trustee of the estate to manage the business. Said trustee is a Boston attorney who has no real interest in guns (from what I could tell talking with him a few times). He hired Matt to manage it for him. Said attorney was very upset when he was made aware of the mis-information on legality of RI visitors and contacted me (I was a Mod at that time), he told me that no employee ever said such things and that was that. Spin forward a few more years and BATFE was bent out of shape about RI gang members renting/visiting at AFS and demanded that AFS hold DLs or LTCs, make copies for all that visit the range and give the copies to BATFE. I have no idea if this is still happening. I haven't been to AFS in probably 4-5 yrs now.
Interesting background, thanks. They do take your license when you rent a lane, whether they do anything with that I do not know.

That probably explains the "competition" they had. According to what I was told, their legal people told them that as long as there was a sanctioned competition that Rhode Islanders could bring their guns. They said that in order for it to qualify as a bona fide competition, it had to have a certain amount of prize money involved as well as a fee ($1) to participate. They had four categories: Member Rimfire, Member Centerfire, Nonmember/Corporate Rimfire and Nonmember/Corporate Centerfire. When they first started it was $400 per month per category. You could only put in one target per day and it was cumulative score so realistically you could only win one category per month unless there was low participation - it was about how many targets you put in each month, not how well you shot. There were half a dozen regulars who won $400/mo every month for a while (like 2 years). Unless you put in 30 targets/mo then you weren't winning. Then they switched it to best 8 targets per category so you could participate in two categories. Eventually it went away, I believe now the prize is a free membership and last time I was in there a couple years ago I was told there was little activity. People were told by the staff that it gave them legal cover to bring guns from RI, I heard it myself more than once
 
Interesting background, thanks. They do take your license when you rent a lane, whether they do anything with that I do not know.

That probably explains the "competition" they had. According to what I was told, their legal people told them that as long as there was a sanctioned competition that Rhode Islanders could bring their guns. They said that in order for it to qualify as a bona fide competition, it had to have a certain amount of prize money involved as well as a fee ($1) to participate. They had four categories: Member Rimfire, Member Centerfire, Nonmember/Corporate Rimfire and Nonmember/Corporate Centerfire. When they first started it was $400 per month per category. You could only put in one target per day and it was cumulative score so realistically you could only win one category per month unless there was low participation - it was about how many targets you put in each month, not how well you shot. There were half a dozen regulars who won $400/mo every month for a while (like 2 years). Unless you put in 30 targets/mo then you weren't winning. Then they switched it to best 8 targets per category so you could participate in two categories. Eventually it went away, I believe now the prize is a free membership and last time I was in there a couple years ago I was told there was little activity. People were told by the staff that it gave them legal cover to bring guns from RI, I heard it myself more than once
There is no competition exemption as that's been beaten to death here on the forums over the years.

There is an interesting edge case. The exemption requires that the person have a permit from a "state, district or territory" that does not issue permits to felons or drug users. As written, it excludes permits for persons with minor MJ convictions who can get an LTC in the DPRM.

How this would be enforced in practice is anyone's guess, since visitors to MA for matches tend to be gray men/women when it comes to guns. But, consider that the MA SJC took a hard line on the "60 day exemption for new arrivals" (new arrivals can possess guns for 60 days after moving in, but must have them teleported to their new residence since the law as written does not appear to cover transport. A new arrival tried to use this exemption, but the marsupials ruled that "high capacity firearm" was a different definition than "firearm" (I think it covered rifles at shotguns in addition to firearms) and the legislature "could have, but did not, expand the new arrival exemption to include this new item". Despite the apparently clear wording of the 60 day exemption, the courts have taken a more restrictive view (See Commonwealth v. Cornelius).

Now, to make it more interesting the law requires the permit be from a state that does not issue permits to people who have been convicted of the use or sale of "narcotic or harmful drugs". MJ is not a narcotic and, since legal, can be argued is not "harmful". Is there one or more state where any other drug crime makes on eligible for a license? Does MA law define MJ as a "Narcotic" even though is medically is not one.

And then there are people using *really* bogus logic like "I an from VT; VT does not require a permit; therefore I have the same status in regard to this law as someone who has a permit since I can legally possess handguns in my home state". Nope.

On a semi-related matter I am aware of an individual who was arrested with a handgun in NY and attempted to apply the 265.20-13(b) exemption for matches in NY law. His problem was the match he claimed to be attending (and likely was) was not "advance registration" so there was no paper trail. I know the DA's office contacted the HQ of the org sanctioning the match with all sorts of questions trying to find out if his claim was legit.
 
Don’t forget to make your truck ready for the trip.

View attachment 582286
Needs more bling.
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Ah, let's kick the bling up even higher.
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(Yes, I know about claymore hitch covers).
 
There is no competition exemption as that's been beaten to death here on the forums over the years.
I am well aware of that, a certain public range in MA is not. Or they weren’t for a number of years cup until recently. I’m not complaining, I did very well in their competition.
 
The pay ranges don't care, they're not going to turn people away. (Unwashed foreigners bringing guns to shoot there) happens at all the pay ranges in MA. When Bobs was open NH people even used to drive there lol....
Nope that's not it...it's all legal....do it all the time (although I suspect you're right if it it wasn't)
You can bring a long gun into MA from RI to shoot at a range
You can bring a pistol in to shoot in a bona-fide competition....which places like AFS run daily. They'll give you a little paper to shoot at and tally the scores once a week. The winner gets I-dunno-what.

That's how it's done...totally legit
 
You can bring a pistol in to shoot in a bona-fide competition....which places like AFS run daily. They'll give you a little paper to shoot at and tally the scores once a week. The winner gets I-dunno-what.

That's how it's done...totally legit
Ummm once again, no its not...
 
The person who created AFS as his dream business sadly died suddenly a few years after he started the business. He left his best friend as trustee of the estate to manage the business. Said trustee is a Boston attorney who has no real interest in guns (from what I could tell talking with him a few times). He hired Matt to manage it for him. Said attorney was very upset when he was made aware of the mis-information on legality of RI visitors and contacted me (I was a Mod at that time), he told me that no employee ever said such things and that was that. Spin forward a few more years and BATFE was bent out of shape about RI gang members renting/visiting at AFS and demanded that AFS hold DLs or LTCs, make copies for all that visit the range and give the copies to BATFE. I have no idea if this is still happening. I haven't been to AFS in probably 4-5 yrs now.
Nope. Been there several times in the past few weeks.

Patriot Consulting recently purchased AFS. They're doing lots of modeling.
 
Ummm once again, no its not...

Non-residents who are taking part in a shooting competition in the State may carry a handgun in or through the state, as long as you have a license to carry a gun from any other state (not a problem me).

But I'm fairly certain I've read elsewhere (state site) the LTC from another state is not even required

Is Goal Considered a reliable source?



Massachusetts general law Chapter 140, §129C provides many exemptions from licensing requirements for non-residents coming into the state with rifles, shotguns and ammunition therefor. Briefly, these are


(1) hunters with valid nonresident hunting licenses,

(2) possession on a firing or shooting range,

(3) possession while traveling in or through the commonwealth with rifles or shotguns unloaded and enclosed in a case,

(4) possession while at a firearms show or display organized by a gun collectors club or association or

(5) carrying by nonresidents who meet the requirements for such carrying or possession in the state in which they reside.

If I'm mistaken, someone please tell me how because I may have just encouraged my father in law to break the law
 
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Non-residents who are taking part in a shooting competition in the State may carry a handgun in or through the state, as long as you have a license to carry a gun from any other state (not a problem me).

But I'm fairly certain I've read elsewhere (state site) the LTC from another state is not even required

Is Goal Considered a reliable source?



Massachusetts general law Chapter 140, §129C provides many exemptions from licensing requirements for non-residents coming into the state with rifles, shotguns and ammunition therefor. Briefly, these are




If I'm mistaken, someone please tell me how because I may have just encouraged my father in law to break the law
Dude see my post above. #33

Along with this:
The "exemption" in S. 131G is totally bogus as Jason Guida did the research and claims that NO other state FOREVER gives PP-status to folks convicted of minor possession of MJ and therefore NO other state's license/permit meets the requirements.
 
Whether anyone has been caught and charged etc is a different story.
You’d be a fool to think that a cop in MA would give you a free pass knowing you have guns without a non-resident LTC if pulled over etc. Granted you would have f***ed up bad if a cop is searching your body or your car for guns.

Or in this case camping out in the AFS parking lot seeing out of state cars.

You have waaaay too much faith in cops in this commie state
 
No, the so-called exemption is vaporware by virtue of how it was written grammatically. Very few ever get caught but it is a felony if you do get caught. Police officers are being trained in the proper interpretation of this law at least since 2014. And if GOAL says differently, they are still wrong. If you want to verify this info, make a call to Atty. Jason Guida . . . Jason is the person who called my attention to this many years ago when he was the Director of the FRB.
 
Or in this case camping out in the AFS parking lot seeing out of state cars.

You have waaaay too much faith in cops in this commie state

Mind you however, say some guy comes out of there and puts a locked bag in his trunk. That alone isn't PC/RS or whatever for a search or even a stop. You have to have more than that to create a context for even a stop, nevermind a search. The LEO didnt even see a gun, nor does he have any awareness of whether or not that person is committing an
illegal act. I dunno if "visiting a gun range" is enough PC/RS to justify that.

I think overall people get away with riding dirty in mass because you have to be really stupid to give the cop on the side of the road a free bingo space. I've not read about a case involving an "illegal" gun found during a traffic stop that didn't involve one of the following:

-Guy had a warrant out for himself or even one to search vehicle or person (eg, known bad guys)
-Guy with gun had clearly negligent (well, by MA standards) storage. See also the old "gun sliding around under the seat trick where the cop sees a glimpse of it" etc, so on, ad
nauseam. Or like that kid with the 50BMG necklace with the gun on his backseat in a closed but unlatched hard case in full view, etc. so on.
-Guy had guns clearly in violation of FOPA (kind of like above, but different context)

If I were the OP, would I want to intentionally test the system? no. But at the same time I also know the risk of "problems" is not really high if someone isn't 110% retarded.
 
No, the so-called exemption is vaporware by virtue of how it was written grammatically. Very few ever get caught but it is a felony if you do get caught. Police officers are being trained in the proper interpretation of this law at least since 2014. And if GOAL says differently, they are still wrong. If you want to verify this info, make a call to Atty. Jason Guida . . . Jason is the person who called my attention to this many years ago when he was the Director of the FRB.

Did Glidden put it (Guida interpretation) in his bible? lol

I think "very few" btw is being too generous even at that. I've never heard of a single person that "got clapped while trying to use the exemption". Then again tis not like there are a lot of
test cases. It's quite obvious that, given MA bullshit, carrying unwashed is still certainly legally perilous, even if done with an eye towards caution.
 
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This particular range in MA is owned/run almost exclusively by Rhode Islanders and caters to the RI crowd. I still can't figure out for the life of me why they don't do anything to attract the MA crowd. I also can't believe it has never popped up on M's radar since she could nab out of staters on a daily basis if she wanted to, there are more out of State plates in the parking lot than MA plates. There was a time when they had a "competition" to justify out of staters coming, they were shelling out $1600/mo in gift card prize money and telling people from RI that it gave them cover to bring guns from out of state for a competition.
Maybe because RI is run by the likes of these folks :

1645858314401.png 1645858457981.png

If Maura messes with these guys, she'll be sleeping with the fishes...

 

Non-residents who are taking part in a shooting competition in the State may carry a handgun in or through the state, as long as you have a license to carry a gun from any other state (not a problem me).

But I'm fairly certain I've read elsewhere (state site) the LTC from another state is not even required

Is Goal Considered a reliable source?



Massachusetts general law Chapter 140, §129C provides many exemptions from licensing requirements for non-residents coming into the state with rifles, shotguns and ammunition therefor. Briefly, these are




If I'm mistaken, someone please tell me how because I may have just encouraged my father in law to break the law
Read posts 33, 48 & 50 and post the relevant statute that allows it, not an article from a lawyer.
 
Did Glidden put it (Guida interpretation) in his bible? lol

I think "very few" btw is being too generous even at that. I've never heard of a single person that "got clapped while trying to use the exemption". Then again tis not like there are a lot of
test cases. It's quite obvious that, given MA bullshit, carrying unwashed is still certainly legally perilous, even if done with an eye towards caution.
I was present at his seminar in 2014 where he taught the 200 chiefs/LOs about this. I don't recall if it was in his book or not and I haven't bought one in a long time.
 
What exactly do you need done? Can you take just parts to the smith and not the whole firearm?

When I got my slide milled I only brought the slide, engraving for a firm 1 only a stripped lower, barrel chop or pin and weld just the barrel, etc.

Nope !!! A pistol, revolver and a rifle.
 

Non-residents who are taking part in a shooting competition in the State may carry a handgun in or through the state, as long as you have a license to carry a gun from any other state (not a problem me).

But I'm fairly certain I've read elsewhere (state site) the LTC from another state is not even required

Is Goal Considered a reliable source?



Massachusetts general law Chapter 140, §129C provides many exemptions from licensing requirements for non-residents coming into the state with rifles, shotguns and ammunition therefor. Briefly, these are




If I'm mistaken, someone please tell me how because I may have just encouraged my father in law to break the law
Here's the actual law, for reference:

The text of the sections you've highlighted are
(g) Possession of rifles and shotguns and ammunition therefor by nonresidents while on a firing or shooting range;
(h) Possession of rifles and shotguns and ammunition therefor by nonresidents traveling in or through the commonwealth, providing that any rifles or shotguns are unloaded and enclosed in a case;
(Noting that I'm not a lawyer) g only applies at the range; h is a little unclear, but looks an awful lot like FOPA. In neither case would driving to the range be legitimate.
No, the so-called exemption is vaporware by virtue of how it was written grammatically. Very few ever get caught but it is a felony if you do get caught. Police officers are being trained in the proper interpretation of this law at least since 2014. And if GOAL says differently, they are still wrong. If you want to verify this info, make a call to Atty. Jason Guida . . . Jason is the person who called my attention to this many years ago when he was the Director of the FRB.
Len, are you talking about 129 or 131 here? (For my own understanding)

Since we're telling stories, I had someone looking to come up to a Pink Pistols event try to convince me that he doesn't need a non-res LTC because 1) his LEO friend says so, and 2) AFS would never tell us it's ok if it weren't.
 
Here's the actual law, for reference:

The text of the sections you've highlighted are

(Noting that I'm not a lawyer) g only applies at the range; h is a little unclear, but looks an awful lot like FOPA. In neither case would driving to the range be legitimate.

Len, are you talking about 129 or 131 here? (For my own understanding)

Since we're telling stories, I had someone looking to come up to a Pink Pistols event try to convince me that he doesn't need a non-res LTC because 1) his LEO friend says so, and 2) AFS would never tell us it's ok if it weren't.
S. 131G is bogus as no state issues licenses which comply with the terms stated in that section. Info is compliments of Atty. Jason Guida when he was FRB Director.
 
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