HorizontalHunter
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Interesting background, thanks. They do take your license when you rent a lane, whether they do anything with that I do not know.The person who created AFS as his dream business sadly died suddenly a few years after he started the business. He left his best friend as trustee of the estate to manage the business. Said trustee is a Boston attorney who has no real interest in guns (from what I could tell talking with him a few times). He hired Matt to manage it for him. Said attorney was very upset when he was made aware of the mis-information on legality of RI visitors and contacted me (I was a Mod at that time), he told me that no employee ever said such things and that was that. Spin forward a few more years and BATFE was bent out of shape about RI gang members renting/visiting at AFS and demanded that AFS hold DLs or LTCs, make copies for all that visit the range and give the copies to BATFE. I have no idea if this is still happening. I haven't been to AFS in probably 4-5 yrs now.
There is no competition exemption as that's been beaten to death here on the forums over the years.Interesting background, thanks. They do take your license when you rent a lane, whether they do anything with that I do not know.
That probably explains the "competition" they had. According to what I was told, their legal people told them that as long as there was a sanctioned competition that Rhode Islanders could bring their guns. They said that in order for it to qualify as a bona fide competition, it had to have a certain amount of prize money involved as well as a fee ($1) to participate. They had four categories: Member Rimfire, Member Centerfire, Nonmember/Corporate Rimfire and Nonmember/Corporate Centerfire. When they first started it was $400 per month per category. You could only put in one target per day and it was cumulative score so realistically you could only win one category per month unless there was low participation - it was about how many targets you put in each month, not how well you shot. There were half a dozen regulars who won $400/mo every month for a while (like 2 years). Unless you put in 30 targets/mo then you weren't winning. Then they switched it to best 8 targets per category so you could participate in two categories. Eventually it went away, I believe now the prize is a free membership and last time I was in there a couple years ago I was told there was little activity. People were told by the staff that it gave them legal cover to bring guns from RI, I heard it myself more than once
There is an interesting edge case. The exemption requires that the person have a permit from a "state, district or territory" that does not issue permits to felons or drug users. As written, it excludes permits for persons with minor MJ convictions who can get an LTC in the DPRM.
How this would be enforced in practice is anyone's guess, since visitors to MA for matches tend to be gray men/women when it comes to guns. But, consider that the MA SJC took a hard line on the "60 day exemption for new arrivals" (new arrivals can possess guns for 60 days after moving in, but must have them teleported to their new residence since the law as written does not appear to cover transport. A new arrival tried to use this exemption, but the marsupials ruled that "high capacity firearm" was a different definition than "firearm" (I think it covered rifles at shotguns in addition to firearms) and the legislature "could have, but did not, expand the new arrival exemption to include this new item". Despite the apparently clear wording of the 60 day exemption, the courts have taken a more restrictive view (See Commonwealth v. Cornelius).
Now, to make it more interesting the law requires the permit be from a state that does not issue permits to people who have been convicted of the use or sale of "narcotic or harmful drugs". MJ is not a narcotic and, since legal, can be argued is not "harmful". Is there one or more state where any other drug crime makes on eligible for a license? Does MA law define MJ as a "Narcotic" even though is medically is not one.
And then there are people using *really* bogus logic like "I an from VT; VT does not require a permit; therefore I have the same status in regard to this law as someone who has a permit since I can legally possess handguns in my home state". Nope.
On a semi-related matter I am aware of an individual who was arrested with a handgun in NY and attempted to apply the 265.20-13(b) exemption for matches in NY law. His problem was the match he claimed to be attending (and likely was) was not "advance registration" so there was no paper trail. I know the DA's office contacted the HQ of the org sanctioning the match with all sorts of questions trying to find out if his claim was legit.
Needs more bling.
I am well aware of that, a certain public range in MA is not. Or they weren’t for a number of years cup until recently. I’m not complaining, I did very well in their competition.There is no competition exemption as that's been beaten to death here on the forums over the years.
I live in RI. What risks am I subject to if I bring a couple of guns across the border to a Mass gunsmith ????
Inquiring minds want to know !! Before I get locked up !
Did your MA license expire ? Could add a twist to the story lineThanks for the help guys !! I've stayed out of the slammer till now and I'm not going to temp fate ! Left Mass in 1971 and would not move back. Just too far left for me. Thanks, again !!!
It does because if he has an expired ltc it changes it from a felony to a lot less... lmaoDid your MA license expire ? Could add a twist to the story line
Nope that's not it...it's all legal....do it all the time (although I suspect you're right if it it wasn't)The pay ranges don't care, they're not going to turn people away. (Unwashed foreigners bringing guns to shoot there) happens at all the pay ranges in MA. When Bobs was open NH people even used to drive there lol....
Ummm once again, no its not...You can bring a pistol in to shoot in a bona-fide competition....which places like AFS run daily. They'll give you a little paper to shoot at and tally the scores once a week. The winner gets I-dunno-what.
That's how it's done...totally legit
Nope. Been there several times in the past few weeks.The person who created AFS as his dream business sadly died suddenly a few years after he started the business. He left his best friend as trustee of the estate to manage the business. Said trustee is a Boston attorney who has no real interest in guns (from what I could tell talking with him a few times). He hired Matt to manage it for him. Said attorney was very upset when he was made aware of the mis-information on legality of RI visitors and contacted me (I was a Mod at that time), he told me that no employee ever said such things and that was that. Spin forward a few more years and BATFE was bent out of shape about RI gang members renting/visiting at AFS and demanded that AFS hold DLs or LTCs, make copies for all that visit the range and give the copies to BATFE. I have no idea if this is still happening. I haven't been to AFS in probably 4-5 yrs now.
Pretty sure read that before I first started going there. Lemme see if I can find the referenceUmmm once again, no its not...
Ummm once again, no its not...
(1) hunters with valid nonresident hunting licenses,
(2) possession on a firing or shooting range,
(3) possession while traveling in or through the commonwealth with rifles or shotguns unloaded and enclosed in a case,
(4) possession while at a firearms show or display organized by a gun collectors club or association or
(5) carrying by nonresidents who meet the requirements for such carrying or possession in the state in which they reside.
Dude see my post above. #33Non-resident charged in Massachusetts with possession of a Firearm without an FID card
As a non-resident of Massachusetts who may be traveling within the State, are you allowed to carry a gun and what do you need to know if stopped by the police while carrying a gun? Do not assume ...www.delsignoredefense.com
Non-residents who are taking part in a shooting competition in the State may carry a handgun in or through the state, as long as you have a license to carry a gun from any other state (not a problem me).
But I'm fairly certain I've read elsewhere (state site) the LTC from another state is not even required
Is Goal Considered a reliable source?
Massachusetts general law Chapter 140, §129C provides many exemptions from licensing requirements for non-residents coming into the state with rifles, shotguns and ammunition therefor. Briefly, these are
If I'm mistaken, someone please tell me how because I may have just encouraged my father in law to break the law
The "exemption" in S. 131G is totally bogus as Jason Guida did the research and claims that NO other state FOREVER gives PP-status to folks convicted of minor possession of MJ and therefore NO other state's license/permit meets the requirements.
Or in this case camping out in the AFS parking lot seeing out of state cars.
You have waaaay too much faith in cops in this commie state
No, the so-called exemption is vaporware by virtue of how it was written grammatically. Very few ever get caught but it is a felony if you do get caught. Police officers are being trained in the proper interpretation of this law at least since 2014. And if GOAL says differently, they are still wrong. If you want to verify this info, make a call to Atty. Jason Guida . . . Jason is the person who called my attention to this many years ago when he was the Director of the FRB.
This particular range in MA is owned/run almost exclusively by Rhode Islanders and caters to the RI crowd. I still can't figure out for the life of me why they don't do anything to attract the MA crowd. I also can't believe it has never popped up on M's radar since she could nab out of staters on a daily basis if she wanted to, there are more out of State plates in the parking lot than MA plates. There was a time when they had a "competition" to justify out of staters coming, they were shelling out $1600/mo in gift card prize money and telling people from RI that it gave them cover to bring guns from out of state for a competition.
... RI is run by the likes of these folks :
Read posts 33, 48 & 50 and post the relevant statute that allows it, not an article from a lawyer.Non-resident charged in Massachusetts with possession of a Firearm without an FID card
As a non-resident of Massachusetts who may be traveling within the State, are you allowed to carry a gun and what do you need to know if stopped by the police while carrying a gun? Do not assume ...www.delsignoredefense.com
Non-residents who are taking part in a shooting competition in the State may carry a handgun in or through the state, as long as you have a license to carry a gun from any other state (not a problem me).
But I'm fairly certain I've read elsewhere (state site) the LTC from another state is not even required
Is Goal Considered a reliable source?
Massachusetts general law Chapter 140, §129C provides many exemptions from licensing requirements for non-residents coming into the state with rifles, shotguns and ammunition therefor. Briefly, these are
If I'm mistaken, someone please tell me how because I may have just encouraged my father in law to break the law
I was present at his seminar in 2014 where he taught the 200 chiefs/LOs about this. I don't recall if it was in his book or not and I haven't bought one in a long time.Did Glidden put it (Guida interpretation) in his bible? lol
I think "very few" btw is being too generous even at that. I've never heard of a single person that "got clapped while trying to use the exemption". Then again tis not like there are a lot of
test cases. It's quite obvious that, given MA bullshit, carrying unwashed is still certainly legally perilous, even if done with an eye towards caution.
What exactly do you need done? Can you take just parts to the smith and not the whole firearm?
When I got my slide milled I only brought the slide, engraving for a firm 1 only a stripped lower, barrel chop or pin and weld just the barrel, etc.
Here's the actual law, for reference:Non-resident charged in Massachusetts with possession of a Firearm without an FID card
As a non-resident of Massachusetts who may be traveling within the State, are you allowed to carry a gun and what do you need to know if stopped by the police while carrying a gun? Do not assume ...www.delsignoredefense.com
Non-residents who are taking part in a shooting competition in the State may carry a handgun in or through the state, as long as you have a license to carry a gun from any other state (not a problem me).
But I'm fairly certain I've read elsewhere (state site) the LTC from another state is not even required
Is Goal Considered a reliable source?
Massachusetts general law Chapter 140, §129C provides many exemptions from licensing requirements for non-residents coming into the state with rifles, shotguns and ammunition therefor. Briefly, these are
If I'm mistaken, someone please tell me how because I may have just encouraged my father in law to break the law
(Noting that I'm not a lawyer) g only applies at the range; h is a little unclear, but looks an awful lot like FOPA. In neither case would driving to the range be legitimate.(g) Possession of rifles and shotguns and ammunition therefor by nonresidents while on a firing or shooting range;
(h) Possession of rifles and shotguns and ammunition therefor by nonresidents traveling in or through the commonwealth, providing that any rifles or shotguns are unloaded and enclosed in a case;
Len, are you talking about 129 or 131 here? (For my own understanding)No, the so-called exemption is vaporware by virtue of how it was written grammatically. Very few ever get caught but it is a felony if you do get caught. Police officers are being trained in the proper interpretation of this law at least since 2014. And if GOAL says differently, they are still wrong. If you want to verify this info, make a call to Atty. Jason Guida . . . Jason is the person who called my attention to this many years ago when he was the Director of the FRB.
S. 131G is bogus as no state issues licenses which comply with the terms stated in that section. Info is compliments of Atty. Jason Guida when he was FRB Director.Here's the actual law, for reference:
General Law - Part I, Title XX, Chapter 140, Section 129C
malegislature.gov
The text of the sections you've highlighted are
(Noting that I'm not a lawyer) g only applies at the range; h is a little unclear, but looks an awful lot like FOPA. In neither case would driving to the range be legitimate.
Len, are you talking about 129 or 131 here? (For my own understanding)
Since we're telling stories, I had someone looking to come up to a Pink Pistols event try to convince me that he doesn't need a non-res LTC because 1) his LEO friend says so, and 2) AFS would never tell us it's ok if it weren't.