Rifle hasn't been registered/used in 25+ years. Tricky situation.

[dpawl31]

Hi everyone, new here. Plan on sticking around as I have a 1959 Revolver and a brand new Marlin rifle.
I live in Southern NH, and am looking for an outdoor place to shoot legally without membership fees.

On to the real reason I am posting - my uncle.

My grandfather bought him a Marlin .22LR Glenfield Model 60 way back in the day, nearly 40 years ago. He was 15 years old.
He had an FID, as did my grandfather. It was my uncle's gun - but we do not know if it was HIS LEGALLY, or my grandfathers.
Does the FID tie to a weapon, or just allow you to have one? Would my uncle have LEGALLY been able to even own the gun himself?
If he was able to find his FID # by paying the $20 fee for a record search, would it be eligible for a renewal even though it's been 25 years or more?

Basically, it's been in storage in a cabinet in his childhood home for 25+ years.
He recently took it out, due to me getting my guns and wants to go target shooting in NH with me.
I stripped it, cleaned it, lubed it, oil soap'd the stock... looks great, and I test fired a few times. Runs smooth!

Problem is we want to be as legal as possible (from here on out, heh heh)
He's not sure who it was registered TO. If it COULD be registered to a 15 year old, it could be both.
If it's registered to my grandfather - he's been dead 18 years... my grandmother still owns the house.

Where to go from here? I called his local PD and they said they could/would not look it up by serial for whom it's registered to.
If someone could verify that back them you had to be 18 or greater to OWN it, then I can guanantee it is my grandfather who owned it.
If that is the case - how would I go about transferring ownership to my uncle? Would it be easier to transfer ownership to ME, in NH?
I don't want him to blow $20 on a record search to realize a) it's not his weapon, b) his FID is not able to be renewed and c) he's going
to need a gun safety course to get a NEW FID as well as $100 to pay for it. In NH I can own it, free of and license cost...

Sorry if this is a lot to take in, but with how complex the sitaution is, and having to pay $120 or more to be able to target shoot a few times
a year with me... the laws are so twisted and so much to take in, being from NH I am VERY HAPPY to say I am from NH! lol.

Any input would be highly appreciated!

 

[appraiser]

those records are long gone, he would have to go on a mass crime spree for anyone to even think about trying to find a paper trail on it.

If you want the gun transferred to you, take him, the unloaded gun secured for transport as required by law to a friendly local FFl and pay the transfer fee. If the gun is in MA have someone with a MA license with you while you are in MA, and yes if you are a NH resident it has to be done in NH as MA will not allow a transfer/sale to an out of state resident

 

[MACGYVR]

You left out where he lives and where the gun is.

 

[perry1386]

I may not be able to answer everything, but I'll help with what I can

Does the FID tie to a weapon, or just allow you to have one?

No, I don't think so, having an LTC/FID allows you to purchase/possess firearms. If someone where to querry a LTC/FID, it would not tell you what firearms that person owns, you would have to separately search for transfers, only transfers are recorded

Would my uncle have LEGALLY been able to even own the gun himself?

if he had an FID he could possess the firearm yes, at age 15 he (probably) couldn't purchase the firearm, but could possess it. For him to "own" it, it would have needed to be transferred to him after he was of age.

If he was able to find his FID # by paying the $20 fee for a record search, would it be eligible for a renewal even though it's been 25 years or more?

No, I don't think so, I'm pretty sure it's been too long.

Basically, it's been in storage in a cabinet in his childhood home for 25+ years.
He recently took it out, due to me getting my guns and wants to go target shooting in NH with me.
I stripped it, cleaned it, lubed it, oil soap'd the stock... looks great, and I test fired a few times. Runs smooth!

Problem is we want to be as legal as possible (from here on out, heh heh)
He's not sure who it was registered TO. If it COULD be registered to a 15 year old, it could be both.
If it's registered to my grandfather - he's been dead 18 years... my grandmother still owns the house.

Where to go from here? I called his local PD and they said they could/would not look it up by serial for whom it's registered to.
If someone could verify that back them you had to be 18 or greater to OWN it, then I can guanantee it is my grandfather who owned it.
If that is the case - how would I go about transferring ownership to my uncle? Would it be easier to transfer ownership to ME, in NH?
I don't want him to blow $20 on a record search to realize a) it's not his weapon, b) his FID is not able to be renewed and c) he's going
to need a gun safety course to get a NEW FID as well as $100 to pay for it. In NH I can own it, free of and license cost...

You're in NH and he's in MA correct? If I'm not wrong, and I could be, what would need to happen is you maintain possession of the gun until he gets a new MA LTC or FID, then he can take possession of the firearm in MA unless it violates any laws i.e. AWB etc. and would need to go to a FFL to transfer the gun into his name because the original owner is no longer living.

I think that's what would need to happen, but I'm not 100%

- - - Updated - - -

You left out where he lives and where the gun is.

If I read correctly, sounds like the OP has the firearm in NH and the uncle lives in MA

 

[Billsail]

I know a guy who's had a bunch of old guns for a long time, and he doesn't worry about them.

 

[dpawl31]

Yes Perry you are correct, I posted this in the MA laws section because the gun is in Mass, was purchased in Mass, and my uncle lives in Mass.
Ironically, he lives back in his childhood home now to take care of my grandmother. Hence, he came across his .22 in his old woodshop-built gun cabinet.

He took it to me (in NH) and I cleaned it, and sent it back with. All of the above was illegal lol.

As for what glockaholic and Perry said about transferring - they can do that without the original buyer or person it was transferred to?
And you said for me to maintain possession, but it, IN THE BOOKS, belongs to my deceased grandfather.
If I say he left it to me, but I never got any paperwork etc... I can then 'transfer' it to me, IN NH, without my grandfather, or paperwork?

Thanks for the quick, and very helpful info guys!

- - - Updated - - -

Bill I understand where you are coming from there, but in order for him to come target shooting with me, he doesn't want to risk getting pulled over for something stupid like speeding or whatever, and have them look up the gun, and get tagged for neither of us owning it, ya know? If this was a situation of shooting on my own property, I'd have no problems.

 

[dpawl31]

That --UPDATED-- option after a second post is a freaking COOL feature of this site! NICE!

 

[appraiser]

To be legal the executor of the estate has to be involved in the transfer, unless the gun was specifically mentioned as being left in the will to someone.


I won't advocate anything illegal here.....

 

[dpawl31]

That was my understanding, since it was not left in the will. That's sort of where I am stuck, because he doesn't want to drag my 85 year old grandmother to a gun shop.
A friend of mine was living with me about 5 years ago, and he went to VT, purchased a .22 semi auto rifle, no paperwork, and came to NH with it.
Yes, in the eyes of the law it was illegal.

I guess at this point I want to find out if the gun was 'gifted' in NH without documentation, then what? We could say it was GIFTED to me, a NH resident, then transfer it?
But without some to transfer FROM, I have an issue, yes?

 

[SeanT]

I hope the NES law crew will be along shortly to verify if what I'm about to write is accurate, but...
Can your uncle just keep the gun at your house in NH? He doesn't need to be licensed in NH unless he wants to conceal carry -and- there's no registration requirement in NH. As long as you two go shooting in NH and not in MA, he should be fine *I think*.

If he wants to bring it to MA or keep it in MA:
He should lose it back in the cabinet while he gets licensed (or to be actually legal, have a licensed individual hold it for him while he gets licensed).
I'm not sure how legally correct this would be but I would then suggest he send in an FA-10 form transferring ownership to himself and leaving the Seller Info blank (check the form off as a Registration). He'd then at least have a paper trail saying that he's tried to be legal with it.

Again, I'm not a lawyer and my advice is worth what you've paid for it. Best of luck though

 

[dpawl31]

Thanks Sean. Interesting idea with just keeping it in NH. When I bought both my handgun and revolver I had to do the background check yada yada.
Those guns are both now tied to ME as the owner, federal and state, correct? Or is it just federal, and not state?

Basically, I am fine keeping the rifle, and taking him out with it. What I DON'T want is to be pulled over for going 2mph over the speed limit, seeing the gun cases,
and some punk cop trying to catch us on ANYTHING... then looking up the old Marlin and realizing it does not belong to me, OR my uncle, who is a Mass resident...
That's what I am trying to avoid.
So, are we saying here that since I am a NH resident, any long gun in my possession (non assault / handgun etc) is legal in my hands, no matter who it's federally registered owner is?

 

[Billsail]

Thanks Sean. Interesting idea with just keeping it in NH. When I bought both my handgun and revolver I had to do the background check yada yada.
Those guns are both now tied to ME as the owner, federal and state, correct? Or is it just federal, and not state?

Basically, I am fine keeping the rifle, and taking him out with it. What I DON'T want is to be pulled over for going 2mph over the speed limit, seeing the gun cases,
and some punk cop trying to catch us on ANYTHING... then looking up the old Marlin and realizing it does not belong to me, OR my uncle, who is a Mass resident...
That's what I am trying to avoid.
So, are we saying here that since I am a NH resident, any long gun in my possession (non assault / handgun etc) is legal in my hands, no matter who it's federally registered owner is?

I think if they wanted to bother to check on anything, the would try to determine if it was on a stolen gun list somewhere. I don't believe a gun trace is as simple as many think, especially on the side of the road. I'm no expert, so I could be wrong. I don't, however, advocate anything illegal.

 

[appraiser]

Basically, I am fine keeping the rifle, and taking him out with it. What I DON'T want is to be pulled over for going 2mph over the speed limit, seeing the gun cases,
and some punk cop trying to catch us on ANYTHING... then looking up the old Marlin and realizing it does not belong to me, OR my uncle, who is a Mass resident...
That's what I am trying to avoid.

When has any cop in NH outside of say Manchester, Derry, or some of the other southern NH dumps cared about what guns someone has in their car?

I had a cop in my house once (off duty here on other business) look down at the gun on the floor next to my chair and not say a word about it.

Stop thinking in Ma**h*** terms.

Any LONG gun you have "on loan" or "for safe keeping" in NH is legal period. You can use it as you see fit.

It is only the loaning of pistols and revolvers that have restrictions on them when loaned across a state line, which I don't really feel like going into now.

 

[dpawl31]

That 'looseness' in your wording, no fine laws, is what I fear lol. I am fine telling them the whole story of it, so I think it's 'safe' as is, in NH, with me. But god forbid if they tell me they need to look into it, try and verify ownership, and then 'confiscate' it until further notice, and my uncle loses something he's known for 38 years, and was purchased BY his father FOR him, something that special... to be gone never to be seen again, just because we couldn't fine tune the legality of him using it... I'll feel like CRAP.

I think it's fair to say I would have no need to worry, but, I'd love to legalize it... easily.

 

[Billsail]

That 'looseness' in your wording, no fine laws, is what I fear lol. I am fine telling them the whole story of it, so I think it's 'safe' as is, in NH, with me. But god forbid if they tell me they need to look into it, try and verify ownership, and then 'confiscate' it until further notice, and my uncle loses something he's known for 38 years, and was purchased BY his father FOR him, something that special... to be gone never to be seen again, just because we couldn't fine tune the legality of him using it... I'll feel like CRAP.

I think it's fair to say I would have no need to worry, but, I'd love to legalize it... easily.

Cops just don't do this...even in MA. They may want to see your FID/LTC, to make sure you can possess them...that's it, unless you start trying to tell them the story of how you came to have them in your possession, and they wonder why you're telling them all this. Why complicate things? Keep it simple, really!

Why would they even see them, if they're locked in your trunk? But that's another thread.

 

[dpawl31]

Valid point, but in NH I don't need anything to own the rifles. So I guess this is leaning me more and more to him just 'gifting' the rifle to me, and he can shoot it whenever. I still have that lingering fear that someones going to want to 'look into it' and screw us. I just don't want him to have ANY potential to have it removed from our possession, because of some loophole in paperwork. Hope you can understand my 'fear.'

Totally understand your theory of why complicate, sounds fair enough.

 

[appraiser]

he can not gift it across a state line without a FFL involved, I don't think he can even gift it to you using a MA FFL.

as I said before I can't advocate anything illegal...

to the best of your knowledge it is his gun, Your Grandfather gave it to him a long time ago, the proper papers were filed way back a long time ago, it isn't your fault the State lost them right?

It is his gun and you are just letting him store it at your house which is all fine and legal, it is even legal for you to use it.

 

[dpawl31]

^Agreed. Thanks everyone. I'll continue to take opinions on the matter, but I think that's where I am going to stay. Leave it at my house, use it whenever.

In that scenario, is he able to come to NH, and use it, without me? He's going to have to show ID at the range, but if he's with me, and it's my gun, they won't care.
But he can't walk in as a Mass resident, and use it, without me, because he'd need an FID to own the gun in mass, yes?

 

[jeff12340]

I own the same gun I bought it at kmart in 1988 in Salem NH I had a fid at the time in ma and have owned it since then. Then ma said my fid was no good in 1998 and was told I would have to reapply I just took the course and got my ltc a as far as I know no one knows I own it except the feds never had a problem have been stooped with gun in the car and was never asked about it don't know if I am just lucky but all the cops wanted to know was if it was unloaded they could see the trigger lock on it so once I told them yes it was unloaded that was that even though its suppose to be in a locked case in ma I guess they figured the trigger lock and it being unloaded was good enough or they don't know the law

 

[Twigg]

Stop thinking in Ma**h*** terms.

Also see below;

As one of the moderators here said: Never miss an opportunity to shut up.

 

[appraiser]

Most ranges in NH don't GARA about your MA license or lack of one.

Some have a policy of not selling ammo to a MA resident without a license if it is going to leave the range, but if you are going to shoot it at their range they will sell it to you.

Cripes MFL will rent a MA resident a full auto weapon to use on the range and the ammo to go with it.

Some of the big box stores have a hair across their azz about selling ammo to MA residents but I have never had any mom & pop store say anything to me when I was still a legal resident of MA.

 

[Billsail]

I will leave it at this. There are many, many, countless guns possessed before any paperwork was required. They are all totally legal, then and now. The only thing the authorities state is: "if you 'wish' to register your firearm, you may do so on an FA-10". If it stays in NH, you're good to go.

This thread, and the questions asked are really more complicated than they need to be. If he wants to keep it in MA, it's a little more complicated, but not much.

 

[mx250man]

I got my FID when I was 15. It lapsed when its "lifetime" ran out. Then I decided I wanted to get back into shooting. I emailed the PD where I got it, and the COP emailed me back my #, and instructions for renewal. I had since moved to another town, and took that info and put in on the renewal form I submitted in my new town, and more than 25 years after it was issued and more than 10 years after it lapsed, I had a renewed FID. But then I decided an LTC was the thing to have - so now I have both!

 

[dpawl31]

Good deal. Probably suggest to him he store it with me for it's more legal. Then he can come shoot whenever. Thanks guys, very informative.

Now someone, PM me with your secret hiding hole for shooting out in the woods without being on private property, lol! I know that's a touchy subject. Nobody wants to give up their legal, public shooting locations for fear of being over run with people and damage etc.

I don't expect anyone to tell me their South Central NH outdoors target shooting spots... but if they did, they'd be happy to know I take all my brass and trash with me, and leave it looking untouched

REALLY wish the public 'preserve' land around here didn't have so many whiney neighbors, I mean hell, it's a .22! lol

 

[KMaurer]

Most states don't bother registering long guns. As some people frequently point out, Massachusetts only registers *transfers*, not possession or ownership. That having been said, Massachusetts retains absolutely no transfer records from the old blue cards. Thus if "back in the day" was more than 15 years ago, the gun is the legal property of whomever you want to claim, presuming it could have been legally transferred to them back then.

Ken

 

[dpawl31]

Thanks Ken, great to know. Now to convince him to spend $100 on an FID and take the safety course :-\

 

[Len-2A Training]

Most states don't bother registering long guns. As some people frequently point out, Massachusetts only registers *transfers*, not possession or ownership. That having been said, Massachusetts retains absolutely no transfer records from the old blue cards. Thus if "back in the day" was more than 15 years ago, the gun is the legal property of whomever you want to claim, presuming it could have been legally transferred to them back then.

Ken

Not true Ken.

Sorry to say that I was guilty of that mis-information based on a mis-understanding of what Bill Pickett had told me back in Feb. 1998. I recently was corrected on this after Jason had told me I was wrong . . . I again asked Bill Pickett (prior Dir of FRB) and posted correct info here somewhere. Most blue cards were indeed computerized, some were destroyed (estimates were 30K destroyed).

 

[SeanT]

Keep it in NH at your house.
If anyone asks, it's your uncle's gun that he keeps there.
It's not in MA, so no one gives a s*** if he's licensed in MA or not.
If he tries to buy ammo at a big box, he might get asked for his LTC and might be prevented from buying there. Either buy it for him or go to a smaller store.

Done

 

[one-eyed Jack]

Fifteen million Mexicans sneak into the US and become criminals and nobody gives a shit. And we need to worry about an old .22 rifle. I have a headache. Jack.

 

[garandman]

1. This is not uncommon as at one point FID's were apparently issued for life, so people think they have one still though the rules have changed. That accounts for the part of the discrepancy between the estimated one million gun owners in MA versus the 350,000 or so current licences.

2. If you have an FID/LCF and inherit a firearm, for example, you fill out the form and mark "Registration" and mail it in.