RI conceal carry application. Expunged record?

[James77]

I am considering at some point applying for a conceal carry permit in RI. About 20 years ago, I had 2 separate misdemeanor arrests and convictions. Neither were for violence(marijuana possession and disorderly). One was filed initially for one year....but I was arrested 4 months after for the possession of pot so it remained on my record. The other was a guilty plea, and one year probation.

However, about 2 years ago, I had both of them expunged in court. I have had no arrests or run ins with the law since, save for traffic offenses. RI technically allows only one offense to be expunged, so I am lucky the judge was more than fair there.

Soooo....on the conceal carry permit application asks the following 3 questions(in brief):

1: Have you ever been arrested? Explain if so.
2: Have you ever plead nolo? Explain if so.
3: Have you ever been convicted of a crime?

Going by what my attorney said at the time, an expunged record is like it never happened. But when I asked the question, it was for if I was asked similar questions as the above on an employment application.

Would this also apply for this conceal carry permit application? I just do not want to look like a boob if they ask and find out(despite being expunged), while I said "no" to all

 

[ront02769]

Sounds simple, doesn't it? Were you ever arrested? Since you WERE, how would you explain lying on the carry permit to the police?

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Sounds simple, doesn't it? Were you ever arrested? Since you WERE, how would you explain lying on the carry permit to the police?

There is the concept of "legal fiction". In some cases, an expungement of a conviction gives one the right to answer "no" to a question when the plain English answer is yes.

I suggest you spring for a consult with Attorney Keith Langer. He is a member of the RI bar, and has extensive experience with the RI AG's licensing process.

 

[James77]

Sounds simple, doesn't it? Were you ever arrested? Since you WERE, how would you explain lying on the carry permit to the police?

As I stated, I was told by an attorney that when asked this question, that I could answer NO. How would that be lying? I am checking here to see if it carries over to something as "serious" as a CCW permit.

Please learn what expunging a record is.

 

[James77]

There is the concept of "legal fiction". In some cases, an expungement of a conviction gives one the right to answer "no" to a question when the plain English answer is yes.

I suggest you spring for a consult with Attorney Keith Langer. He is a member of the RI bar, and has extensive experience with the RI AG's licensing process.

Thank you. I will contact him.
I wasn't sure if others here have dealt with something similar, but am not surprised they have not....as it is a fairly unusual thing.

I really have no problem with the expunged part....I am curious on the filed one. I'll give him a yell soon and report back on the experience

 

[Rob Boudrie]

As I stated, I was told by an attorney that when asked this question

It is best you ask an attorney who is very familiar with the RI licensing process (which is why I recommended Langer).

There are indeed expundgements that give the right to answer "no" without it being a lie. That being said, I know that MA police departments will generally not care about your "right to lie under an expungement statute" and simply deny the application for lying if they find out. And yes, I know MA and RI are different places.

The relevant questions:

1. Do you have a legal right to lie under the "legal fiction" doctrine?
2. Will the issuing agency find out about the incident if you don't mention it?
3. Will the issuing agency understand, and accept, the doctrine of legal fiction if they do find out?

#1 will be easy to answer as it is a point of law. #2 and #3 will take an attorney who has been around this particular block a few times.

 

[ront02769]

As I stated, I was told by an attorney that when asked this question, that I could answer NO. How would that be lying? I am checking here to see if it carries over to something as "serious" as a CCW permit.

Please learn what expunging a record is.

Thanks genius. I know what expunging a record is. And I ALSO know that your situation is NOT that unusual a situation......and ALSO that the POLICE department may see more when they check you out for purposes of LTC than your employer did. Best you take the advice of seeing a lawyer....because in SOME states Law enforcement WILL see the expunged item when doing a LTC investigation..and then they will ask why you lied and said that you were. Never arrested. Ron