Rhode Island AG: Hometown Cops Should Be Alerted To Gun Buys

[Zappa]

Rhode Island AG: Hometown cops should be alerted to gun buys

In the wake of a shooting at an affordable housing complex, Rhode Island's Attorney General wants lawmakers to require firearm purchase applications be submitted to police departments where the buyer lives, not just where the gun is purchased.

www.pressherald.com

Sounds like another article written by someone unfamiliar with the gun laws.
What is this "firearm purchase application" the article refers to ???
If it's a form 4473, and the guy intentionally gave false information, then charge him under the existing federal law.

 

[Deleted member 67409]

Sounds like another article written by someone unfamiliar with the gun laws.
What is this "firearm purchase application" the article refers to ???
If it's a form 4473, and the guy intentionally gave false information, then charge him under the existing federal law.

Two points:

1) The guy that's the subject of the article is dead. While prosecutors can indict a ham sandwich, they can't indict a dead guy for lying on a 4473.
2) RI has a state analog to the 4473, similar in concept to NH's call-in system. There's a few differences between the 4473 and the state form. The controlling statute is RIGL 11-47-35:

11-47-35

 

[Zappa]

Two points:

1) The guy that's the subject of the article is dead. While prosecutors can indict a ham sandwich, they can't indict a dead guy for lying on a 4473.

Great, he saved the taxpayers a ton of money.

2) RI has a state analog to the 4473, similar in concept to NH's call-in system. There's a few differences between the 4473 and the state form. The controlling statute is RIGL 11-47-35:

11-47-35

Is this in addition to the 4473 like the Mass form ???
In NH, there is no additional paperwork beyond the 4473, but the background check phone call (for handguns) is done to the state not NICS. (NICS is only used for long gun purchases/transfers)

 

[Deleted member 67409]

Is this in addition to the 4473 like the Mass form ???
In NH, there is no additional paperwork beyond the 4473, but the background check phone call (for handguns) is done to the state not NICS. (NICS is only used for long gun purchases/transfers)

In RI, if you go to a gun store and buy a gun, you have two pieces of paper put in front of you: the 4473 and the "Application for a [gun]", which I always just call "the state form." You fill out both. The statute for handguns is the one I linked to above, 11-47-35. A substantially similar form is also required for long guns under 11-47-35.2:

11-47-35.2

 

[T-Unit]

In RI, if you go to a gun store and buy a gun, you have two pieces of paper put in front of you: the 4473 and the "Application for a [gun]", which I always just call "the state form." You fill out both. The statute for handguns is the one I linked to above, 11-47-35. A substantially similar form is also required for long guns under 11-47-35.2:

11-47-35.2

I read the law years ago and the legal wordage of it describes pistol or revolver or rifle/shotgun, which had me wondering when the Mossberg Shockwave came out, since it is not a pistol or rifle or shotgun if that meant you didn't have to fill out the state form and not have to wait the 8 days to get it.

Because it's the state law that mandates the 8 day waiting period.

 

[Zappa]

In RI, if you go to a gun store and buy a gun, you have two pieces of paper put in front of you: the 4473 and the "Application for a [gun]", which I always just call "the state form." You fill out both. The statute for handguns is the one I linked to above, 11-47-35. A substantially similar form is also required for long guns under 11-47-35.2:

11-47-35.2

OK, so it's like the Mass state form, the one they claim isn't really a "registration form"
From the article, I gather that a copy of this is not currently forwarded to the local PD that issued the buyers permit ???

 

[T-Unit]

Read the article and I'm not saying I'm against it, but I don't see how having two different local PD's do the background check is going to change anything because people do this thing called moving and could have lived in dozens of towns over their lifetime. If somebody had a run in with police in say, Johnston and got put under a 3 day evaluation, then 10 years later they were living in Pawtucket and bought a gun in Warwick, then whatever happened in Johnston isn't going to show up.

And if you lived out of state for any period, that won't show up either.

It's all "feel good" bullshit and while the AG isn't doing the typical knee jerk gun control argument like Gina would, he's not proposing anything meaningful that would have changed the outcome that also wouldn't be restricting others rights. If anything, it's just further straining police resources in a state that already has funding issues.

That said, RI only has about 25,000 NICS checks a year, so it's not impossible.

 

[T-Unit]

OK, so it's like the Mass state form, the one they claim isn't really a "registration form"
From the article, I gather that a copy of this is not currently forwarded to the local PD that issued the buyers permit ???

There is no permit to buy a gun in RI other than the blue card for handguns, but that is issued by the state via the DEM. The state form is sent to the police department where the gun is purchased. In the case of this shooting, it was Richmond police who did the check, not Westerly police.

What the AG wants is to have both departments do the background check, in this case both Richmond and Westerly.

 

[seanc]

So.. the “extensive” background check, performed by the feds and state police failed.

 

[xtry51]

Read the article and I'm not saying I'm against it, but I don't see how having two different local PD's do the background check is going to change anything because people do this thing called moving and could have lived in dozens of towns over their lifetime. If somebody had a run in with police in say, Johnston and got put under a 3 day evaluation, then 10 years later they were living in Pawtucket and bought a gun in Warwick, then whatever happened in Johnston isn't going to show up.

And if you lived out of state for any period, that won't show up either.

It's all "feel good" bullshit and while the AG isn't doing the typical knee jerk gun control argument like Gina would, he's not proposing anything meaningful that would have changed the outcome that also wouldn't be restricting others rights. If anything, it's just further straining police resources in a state that already has funding issues.

That said, RI only has about 25,000 NICS checks a year, so it's not impossible.

You other than the problem that BCs shouldn't exist at all?

 

[greencobra]

Sounds like another article written by someone unfamiliar with the gun laws.

from the article zappa posted....
"In the wake of a shooting at an affordable housing complex, Rhode Island’s Attorney General wants firearm purchase applications to be submitted to police departments where the buyer lives, not just where the gun is purchased."
another knee jerk reaction, in other words over reaction. sounds good to the rank and file leftist lemmings. and they remember that shit too.

what it reminds me of....in another life i was lower management in maufacturing....when we had to write an incident report for one of the guys who got hurt and you had to include what you, as manager, and the department, were going to do going forward to prevent the accident from happening again. i really played it to the hilt in my report, you know, over react so corporate, who was clueless to the goings on on the floor would be "pleased."

 

[dhuze]

So.. the “extensive” background check, performed by the feds and state police failed.

Any reason for denial is the same for both the Federal and State background checks. It’s a stupid redundant law that does nothing except waste some of the local PD time. The state believes that the local PD is privy to some sort of information that the Feds are not and only the local PD’s could find it.


According to the article nothing was a disqualifier so the Feds and the PD where the gun was purchased cleared his purchase. If his local PD did the same check, they would have to clear him as well. There are reasons you can be denied, and someone’s opinion is not one of them.


I actually got denied once back around 2004 and went to the PD to find out why. The cop told me there was something on my record and he didn’t like the way it was worded so he denied me. I asked him if he looked to see what it was and he said No. I told him he should go back and do his job and see what it actually was. He went into the back all huffy, then he came out about 1 minute later and told me I was all set.
I never had a problem before or after with the “wording” that was on my record.

 

[Knob Creek]

I believe there is a spot on the RI form for a Notary too.

 

[n1bsbri]

I'd say the practice in RI is the cops can do whatever they want, deny for any reason. If you don't like it, well you can always spend your own money and time suing them. The cops get the taxpayers to hire their laywers, so no skin off their back.

East Providence has defied at least two court judgements against them regarding issuance of pistol permits, and to this day nothing has changed with their policies.

 

[T-Unit]

I'd say the practice in RI is the cops can do whatever they want, deny for any reason. If you don't like it, well you can always spend your own money and time suing them. The cops get the taxpayers to hire their laywers, so no skin off their back.

East Providence has defied at least two court judgements against them regarding issuance of pistol permits, and to this day nothing has changed with their policies.

That is not the practice by police in RI, they have to have a reason to disqualify you and currently the parameters for DQ'ing someone are the same guidelines as what makes you a prohibited person according to federal laws. If you aren't a prohibited person according to the FBI, then you're not a prohibited person, local RI PD's can't say you are and if they do they have to show a reason for it.

That said, having a state and/or local background check is another hurdle that can and eventually will be used against people who are not criminals or prohibited persons from exercising their 2A right. If say, Warwick decides to follow Gina's example and promote feminist Sally Ironbox to chief and she wants all state background checks denied, the only recourse that doesn't involve suing is contacting your state reps and town council members, but if they're all anti-gun, you're SOL.

 

[dhuze]

Something else I just remembered,

I had a vehicle broken into at my house. I went to the PD to fill out a report and one thing said to me , as the officer was looking at his computer, was “it says here you have a handgun, it wasn’t taken was it”? Well I never bought a handgun anywhere in this town so how did he know? Because other PD’s contact your local PD that’s how he knew. Nobody wants to tell me if that’s privileged information or not. Since that time I have bought one in My town so I can’t ask how they know anymore.

I'd say the practice in RI is the cops can do whatever they want, deny for any reason. If you don't like it, well you can always spend your own money and time suing them. The cops get the taxpayers to hire their laywers, so no skin off their back.

East Providence has defied at least two court judgements against them regarding issuance of pistol permits, and to this day nothing has changed with their policies.

You are talking about carry permits while the subject here is the local PD background check In the town where you buy a firearm.

 

[rcwhat]

Something else I just remembered,

I had a vehicle broken into at my house. I went to the PD to fill out a report and one thing said to me , as the officer was looking at his computer, was “it says here you have a handgun, it wasn’t taken was it”? Well I never bought a handgun anywhere in this town so how did he know? Because other PD’s contact your local PD that’s how he knew. Nobody wants to tell me if that’s privileged information or not. Since that time I have bought one in My town so I can’t ask how they know anymore.




You are talking about carry permits while the subject here is the local PD background check In the town where you buy a firearm.

Not sure if RI has the equivalent, but in MA cops can see any gun ever FA-10’d to you in your MA LTC’s existence.

Edit: .....but don’t worry, they assure us that there is no gun registry.

 

[Zappa]

Not sure if RI has the equivalent, but in MA cops can see any gun ever FA-10’d to you in your MA LTC’s existence.

Edit: .....but don’t worry, they assure us that there is no gun registry.

I'm always listening to the scanner while I'm working (in Mass), more and more often during traffic stops, when the PO requests wants, warrants, DL and vehicle registration info, I'm hearing the dispatcher come back with "that individual has an active LTC", even though the PO performing the stop didn't ask for it. Also when the PD is dispatched to a residence for whatever reason, the dispatcher may say "there are two LTC's listed at that address".

 

[drgrant]

I'm always listening to the scanner while I'm working (in Mass), more and more often during traffic stops, when the PO requests wants, warrants, DL and vehicle registration info, I'm hearing the dispatcher come back with "that individual has an active LTC", even though the PO performing the stop didn't ask for it. Also when the PD is dispatched to a residence for whatever reason, the dispatcher may say "there are two LTC's listed at that address".

Worse yet cjisweb or whatever it is shows a yellow triangle of death when they drill into your DL and basically rats on your FA10 history as a matter of course. Last msp trooper that pulled me over just about shit his pants...

 

[T-Unit]

Not sure if RI has the equivalent, but in MA cops can see any gun ever FA-10’d to you in your MA LTC’s existence.

Edit: .....but don’t worry, they assure us that there is no gun registry.

A gun registry isn't the purpose, it's a gun owner registry. Guns aren't dangerous themselves, it's the people who own them that are.

 

[whacko]

"Such actions could range from having a simple conversation with the purchaser to potentially seeking a red flag order to stop the sale, if there is a legal basis to pursue one,”

A simple conversation? About what? The weather? JFC these people are f***ing morons.

 

[1776]

How are RI "Wise" guy purchases going to be tracked? And all the sanctuary purchases by illegals?

 

[allen-1]

Neronha’s proposal makes sense, said Sid Wordell, head of the Rhode Island Police Chiefs’ Association, but it doesn’t solve the larger problem of police departments having separate computer systems that don’t allow them to easily share information or communicate. A cross-agency check can reveal some details, but they are scant and extra steps would be required to get detailed reports.

Because the Federal NICS isn't enough. Need MORE databases.

In Connecticut, along with the 473, you fill out a DPS-3 for every sale, (private or FFL). Four part form with copies to the seller, purchaser, SLFU (State Licensing and Firearms Unit), and the police department in the town of the purchaser. In order to have the purchase authorized, the seller has to contact the SLFU, (who presumably run a NICS check plus ???), to get an "authorization number" which goes on the form.

 

[dhuze]

How are RI "Wise" guy purchases going to be tracked? And all the sanctuary purchases by illegals?

Now you're just being silly.

 

[Arlo39]

Other then checking local files will not each department find the same information in the state system and on NCIC system for the person. If so this is a waste of time, money on part of the local department and infringement on the buyer.

 

[Christian]

Other then checking local files will not each department find the same information in the state system and on NCIC system for the person. If so this is a waste of time, money on part of the local department and infringement on the buyer.

It's a win-win-win for the AG.

1. (to the masses) I'm doing something about guns in the community.

2. (to gun owners) Relax fellas, it's just a redundant step in the process and nothing will really change from the way things already work. But keep it on the low low so the arm flippers don't figure it out.

3. (tickling the sacks of PD around the state) I told you guys I'd sort you out. Now all you anti-2A departments have another chance to drag your feet. And for the indifferent departments, now you can bleat on about being understaffed to do the job effectively thereby having to increase your budget to accommodate more badges.*





*As a bonus to number 3 the AG does the ol' wink wink nudge nudge to the union come donation time.

 

[enbloc]

Get rid of the 4473...
and you'll get rid of lying...

 

[308rifleman]

Not sure if RI has the equivalent, but in MA cops can see any gun ever FA-10’d to you in your MA LTC’s existence.

Edit: .....but don’t worry, they assure us that there is no gun registry.

One of many reasons to purchase out of state.

 

[MattM]

That is not the practice by police in RI, they have to have a reason to disqualify you and currently the parameters for DQ'ing someone are the same guidelines as what makes you a prohibited person according to federal laws. If you aren't a prohibited person according to the FBI, then you're not a prohibited person, local RI PD's can't say you are and if they do they have to show a reason for it.

That said, having a state and/or local background check is another hurdle that can and eventually will be used against people who are not criminals or prohibited persons from exercising their 2A right. If say, Warwick decides to follow Gina's example and promote feminist Sally Ironbox to chief and she wants all state background checks denied, the only recourse that doesn't involve suing is contacting your state reps and town council members, but if they're all anti-gun, you're SOL.

I beg to differ. Multiple purchases (different years, different shops) in the same town, every time the town paper work gets denied. The last time Sandy Kane drove the firearms to a another shop in a different town so that I could get a proceed on the state forms. Sad as the town that keeps denying me is the town I grew up in. Keep in mind I have never been in trouble with the law.