Revocation/Confiscation fact sheet

[Mike S]

Hello Everyone,

I've been getting a ton of calls about this at work and it seems that there is a boatload of bad information out there regarding the rights of a duly licensed gun owner that is hit with a 209A, or has his licensed revoked for any reason.

I wrote this up hoping that you guys could fact check it for me, please let me know of I missed anything, or if anything should be added. Please note, I wrote this with the intention of making it easy to understand for the average person.

Thanks. As follows;

Know your rights! Surrender/Confiscation Fact Sheet.

Most common reasons why your firearms are confiscated;
1. Denial of application
2. Revocation of License/Card
3. 209A Restraining Order

Revocation information (M.G.L. 140 c 129B)
1. Any revocation or suspension of your LTC/FID has to be in writing and will state the reasons.
2. Upon revocation or suspension, the licensing authority will take possession of your LTC/FID and will give you a receipt for fees paid for your LTC/FID. The person whose card is revoked or suspended must take all action required by section 129D (see below)
3. Revocations and suspensions cannot be delayed by appeal. A revoked or suspended card may be reinstated only after the cause of the revocation/suspension has been lifted/cleared.
4. If you believe the revocation or suspension to be unjust or in error, you have 90 days within the receipt of the notice to file a petition for review in the district court that has jurisdiction of the town in which you are licensed. After the hearing, a justice of the court may re-instate your LTC/FID if the justice finds that you are not prohibited by law from possessing an LTC/FID.
(Note if the revocation/suspension is due to a 209A restraining order, please see below)

Surrender/Confiscation of Firearms Information (M.G.L. 140 c 129D)
1. If you receive a notice of revocation or suspension you must surrender your firearms, rifles, shotguns, ammunition, and FID/LTC card immediately to the licensing authority in the city or town that you live in.
2. Your rights after you have surrender or confiscation. (i) After delivery you have one year to transfer your firearms, rifles, shotguns, machine guns, and ammunition to any person legally permitted to possess them, including a licensed FFL. (ii)Once your firearms and ammunition have been surrendered or confiscated, immediately write and deliver a letter to the licensing authority with instructions as to where they are going to be transferred. The licensing authority must deliver the firearms/ammunition within ten days of receipt of your letter.
3. The licensing authority, after taking possession of your firearm, rifle, shotgun, machine gun or ammunition may transfer possession for storage purposes to a federally and state licensed dealer who operates a bonded warehouse unless the firearm, rifle, shotgun, machine gun or ammunition is believed to be evidence linked to a crime, in which case the licensing authority will keep possession. Very important in order to avoid the costly fees of having your weapons stored in a bonded warehouse, make sure that you immediately deliver your letter with instructions for transfer to your licensing authority (see above).
4. Any dealer that takes possession of a weapon under the provisions of this section shall: (i) inspect such weapon; (ii) issue to the owner a receipt indicating the make, model, caliber, serial number and condition of each weapon so received; and (iii) store and maintain all weapons so received in accordance with such regulations, rules or guidelines as the secretary of the executive office of public safety may establish under this section
5. Having your firearms and ammunition stored in a bonded warehouse can get very expensive. You will be responsible for paying all storage, handling, and processing fees before you can get them out or have them transferred. This is why delivering your letter with transfer instructions to your licensing authority immediately is so important. Once your licensing authority has your letter they must transfer the firearms/ammunition to your legally designated person, instead of the bonded warehouse.
6. If you leave your firearms and ammunition in a bonded warehouse fees will pile up very quickly and will often times total more than they are worth. You only have one year to get your firearms and ammunition out of the bonded warehouse, after one year they can and will sell them and will only reimburse you the amount of the sale minus the various fees. As stated, often times these fees add up to as much or more than the firearms and ammunition are worth. Be sure to not let your firearms make it to the bonded warehouses! Also, if you let your due storage fees get more than 90 days late, they can legally sell your firearms and ammunition! Know your rights, do not let this happen!

Surrender/Confiscation due to 209A Restraining Order
1. If somebody files a restraining order on you AND if the person filing the restraining order convinces the court that you are likely to abuse or harm them you will need to immediately surrender your firearms, ammunition, LTC/FID Card etc. to your licensing authority. Also, the surrendered or confiscated firearms, ammunition, etc. can only be transferred to a licensed FFL, and not a “duly authorized person”. (This is what differentiates a 209A suspension/revocation from any other.)
2. Once somebody files a restraining order on you, law enforcement officials will immediately take possession of all firearms, rifles, shotguns, machine guns, ammunition, and LTC/FID that you possess, often times through confiscation at your place of residence.
3. Any violation of such orders shall be punishable by a fine of not more than five thousand dollars, or by imprisonment for not more than two and one-half years in a house of correction, or by both such fine and imprisonment.
4. If you feel the restraining order is in error or unjust you may petition the court which issued the order to surrender for a review. The court must hear your plea within ten days of filing. If your employment requires the possession of a firearm or ammunition the court must hear your plea within two days of filing.

 

[RFWAVELENGTH]

Hello Everyone,

I've been getting a ton of calls about this at work and it seems that there is a boatload of bad information out there regarding the rights of a duly licensed gun owner that is hit with a 209A, or has his licensed revoked for any reason.

I wrote this up hoping that you guys could fact check it for me, please let me know of I missed anything, or if anything should be added. Please note, I wrote this with the intention of making it easy to understand for the average person.

Thanks. As follows;

Know your rights! Surrender/Confiscation Fact Sheet.

Most common reasons why your firearms are confiscated;
1. Denial of application
2. Revocation of License/Card
3. 209A Restraining Order

Revocation information (M.G.L. 140 c 129B)
1. Any revocation or suspension of your LTC/FID has to be in writing and will state the reasons.
2. Upon revocation or suspension, the licensing authority will take possession of your LTC/FID and will give you a receipt for fees paid for your LTC/FID. The person whose card is revoked or suspended must take all action required by section 129D (see below)
3. Revocations and suspensions cannot be delayed by appeal. A revoked or suspended card may be reinstated only after the cause of the revocation/suspension has been lifted/cleared.
4. If you believe the revocation or suspension to be unjust or in error, you have 90 days within the receipt of the notice to file a petition for review in the district court that has jurisdiction of the town in which you are licensed. After the hearing, a justice of the court may re-instate your LTC/FID if the justice finds that you are not prohibited by law from possessing an LTC/FID.
(Note if the revocation/suspension is due to a 209A restraining order, please see below)

Surrender/Confiscation of Firearms Information (M.G.L. 140 c 129D)
1. If you receive a notice of revocation or suspension you must surrender your firearms, rifles, shotguns, ammunition, and FID/LTC card immediately to the licensing authority in the city or town that you live in.
2. Your rights after you have surrender or confiscation. (i) After delivery you have one year to transfer your firearms, rifles, shotguns, machine guns, and ammunition to any person legally permitted to possess them, including a licensed FFL. (ii)Once your firearms and ammunition have been surrendered or confiscated, immediately write and deliver a letter to the licensing authority with instructions as to where they are going to be transferred. The licensing authority must deliver the firearms/ammunition within ten days of receipt of your letter.
3. The licensing authority, after taking possession of your firearm, rifle, shotgun, machine gun or ammunition may transfer possession for storage purposes to a federally and state licensed dealer who operates a bonded warehouse unless the firearm, rifle, shotgun, machine gun or ammunition is believed to be evidence linked to a crime, in which case the licensing authority will keep possession. Very important in order to avoid the costly fees of having your weapons stored in a bonded warehouse, make sure that you immediately deliver your letter with instructions for transfer to your licensing authority (see above).
4. Any dealer that takes possession of a weapon under the provisions of this section shall: (i) inspect such weapon; (ii) issue to the owner a receipt indicating the make, model, caliber, serial number and condition of each weapon so received; and (iii) store and maintain all weapons so received in accordance with such regulations, rules or guidelines as the secretary of the executive office of public safety may establish under this section
5. Having your firearms and ammunition stored in a bonded warehouse can get very expensive. You will be responsible for paying all storage, handling, and processing fees before you can get them out or have them transferred. This is why delivering your letter with transfer instructions to your licensing authority immediately is so important. Once your licensing authority has your letter they must transfer the firearms/ammunition to your legally designated person, instead of the bonded warehouse.
6. If you leave your firearms and ammunition in a bonded warehouse fees will pile up very quickly and will often times total more than they are worth. You only have one year to get your firearms and ammunition out of the bonded warehouse, after one year they can and will sell them and will only reimburse you the amount of the sale minus the various fees. As stated, often times these fees add up to as much or more than the firearms and ammunition are worth. Be sure to not let your firearms make it to the bonded warehouses! Also, if you let your due storage fees get more than 90 days late, they can legally sell your firearms and ammunition! Know your rights, do not let this happen!

Surrender/Confiscation due to 209A Restraining Order
1. If somebody files a restraining order on you AND if the person filing the restraining order convinces the court that you are likely to abuse or harm them you will need to immediately surrender your firearms, ammunition, LTC/FID Card etc. to your licensing authority. Also, the surrendered or confiscated firearms, ammunition, etc. can only be transferred to a licensed FFL, and not a “duly authorized person”. (This is what differentiates a 209A suspension/revocation from any other.)
2. Once somebody files a restraining order on you, law enforcement officials will immediately take possession of all firearms, rifles, shotguns, machine guns, ammunition, and LTC/FID that you possess, often times through confiscation at your place of residence.
3. Any violation of such orders shall be punishable by a fine of not more than five thousand dollars, or by imprisonment for not more than two and one-half years in a house of correction, or by both such fine and imprisonment.
4. If you feel the restraining order is in error or unjust you may petition the court which issued the order to surrender for a review. The court must hear your plea within ten days of filing. If your employment requires the possession of a firearm or ammunition the court must hear your plea within two days of filing.

The above is the main reason why I own only two firearms (one rifle and one shotgun). Moving and hiding two firearms over the border in NH is a lot easier than moving and hiding 20. I was forced to do just that about a decade ago. I will not get into specifics, though.

 

[Finalygotabeltfed]

The above is the main reason why I own only two firearms (one rifle and one shotgun). Moving and hiding two firearms over the border in NH is a lot easier than moving and hiding 20. I was forced to do just that about a decade ago. I will not get into specifics, though.

Better yet, live in NH.

 

[Mike S]

117 reads and no corrections, can I take this as an "everything looks right to me"?

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

Mike, very nice job. A couple of observations:

-not directly relevant, but do you have any stats on how often or how many times a year a license is denied / revoked and the PD seeks surrender of firearms?

- #4 under revocation information

After the hearing, a justice of the court may re-instate your LTC/FID if the justice finds that you are not prohibited by law from possessing an LTC/FID.

I realize this directly paraphrases section 129B (5) but it doesn’t sufficiently emphasis that the justice has no obligation to reinstate your permit or and that the burden is on the applicant to produce “substantial evidence” that that the chief’s action was “arbitrary, capricious, or an abuse of power”.

-on a practical note, is there any reason why surrendered firearms cannot be transferred to a properly licensed spouse? (i.e. a really good reason for spouses to be licensed)

- your note is heavy on the implication of having one’s guns in bonded storage for an extended period of time – an old story, I know. Is there anything else that we should be aware of?

 

[namedpipes]

Some thoughts . . .

Revocation information (M.G.L. 140 c 129B)
2. Upon revocation or suspension, the licensing authority will take possession of your LTC/FID and will give you a receipt for fees paid for your LTC/FID. The person whose card is revoked or suspended must take all action required by section 129D (see below)

Are you saying the fee you paid for the LTC is refunded or you get a receipt for the LTC?

Generally speaking, you seem to all the "facts" there but it still reads like digested legalese.

Here:

3. The licensing authority, after taking possession of your firearm, rifle, shotgun, machine gun or ammunition may transfer possession for storage purposes to a federally and state licensed dealer who operates a bonded warehouse unless the firearm, rifle, shotgun, machine gun or ammunition is believed to be evidence linked to a crime, in which case the licensing authority will keep possession. Very important in order to avoid the costly fees of having your weapons stored in a bonded warehouse, make sure that you immediately deliver your letter with instructions for transfer to your licensing authority (see above).

3. If the weapon is not evidence in a crime, the licensing authority (MIGHT/WILL?) transfer the weapon(s) to an FFL / Bonded Warehouse. Bonded storage is VERY expensive. Make sure you receive instructions from the LA for transfer to - wait - what? Did you mean something like: Make sure you receive instructions from the LA for transfer to your own FFL?

4. Any dealer that takes possession of a weapon under the provisions of this section shall: (i) inspect such weapon; (ii) issue to the owner a receipt indicating the make, model, caliber, serial number and condition of each weapon so received; and (iii) store and maintain all weapons so received in accordance with such regulations, rules or guidelines as the secretary of the executive office of public safety may establish under this section

4. When a dealer takes possession of a weapon they will inspect it and issue a receipt indicating the details and condition and then store it.

 

[Mike S]

Thanks for looking at it. I've had a difficult time making it more readable while keeping all of the information correct.

And yes, the bit about refunding license fees paid is quoted from the law as written.

 

[Mike S]

Mike, very nice job. A couple of observations:

-not directly relevant, but do you have any stats on how often or how many times a year a license is denied / revoked and the PD seeks surrender of firearms?

- #4 under revocation information I realize this directly paraphrases section 129B (5) but it doesn’t sufficiently emphasis that the justice has no obligation to reinstate your permit or and that the burden is on the applicant to produce “substantial evidence” that that the chief’s action was “arbitrary, capricious, or an abuse of power”.

-on a practical note, is there any reason why surrendered firearms cannot be transferred to a properly licensed spouse? (i.e. a really good reason for spouses to be licensed)

- your note is heavy on the implication of having one’s guns in bonded storage for an extended period of time – an old story, I know. Is there anything else that we should be aware of?

Thanks. I could find no reason why the license could not be transferred to a spouse. IIRC it says "duly licensed person" but makes no provision beyond that.

Also, my thought process behind doing this was to educate and inform gun owners that they have options beyond having their collection wind up in storage. From what I could decipher it seems a time critical issue, that's the message I really want to convey.

Thanks again for the suggestions/questions

 

[rep308]

Surrender/Confiscation of Firearms Information (M.G.L. 140 c 129D)
1. If you receive a notice of revocation or suspension you must surrender your firearms, rifles, shotguns, ammunition, and FID/LTC card immediately to the licensing authority in the city or town that you live in.

Question here please, say there is a married couple and both have their Class A LTC. The husband gets pulled over for DWI and his license get revoked. The police show up to collect the firearms, does the fact that the wife has a valid LTC mean the firearms can stay in the dwelling? Does it matter if the firearms were purchased by the husband or wife. Do they collect the wife's legally purchased firearms also?

Thank you

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

Thanks. I could find no reason why the [STRIKE]license [/STRIKE] firearms could not be transferred to a spouse. IIRC it says "duly licensed person" but makes no provision beyond that.

Also, my thought process behind doing this was to educate and inform gun owners that they have options beyond having their collection wind up in storage. From what I could decipher it seems a time critical issue, that's the message I really want to convey.

Thanks again for the suggestions/questions

Fixed it for you.

This is good information. I hope it will find it's way into a downloadable fact sheet.

 

[namedpipes]

Thanks for looking at it. I've had a difficult time making it more readable while keeping all of the information correct.

And yes, the bit about refunding license fees paid is quoted from the law as written.

When I write a paper for the "general public" I first write it as though I'm explaining it to a 10 year old and then "smarten" it up a little so they don't cotton to the fact I'm talking to them like a child

You can always include a list of citations at the bottom if they want the gory details. A tip sheet can afford to gloss over the details as long as it makes it clear there ARE more details

 

[Len-2A Training]

Surrender/Confiscation of Firearms Information (M.G.L. 140 c 129D)
1. If you receive a notice of revocation or suspension you must surrender your firearms, rifles, shotguns, ammunition, and FID/LTC card immediately to the licensing authority in the city or town that you live in.

Question here please, say there is a married couple and both have their Class A LTC. The husband gets pulled over for DWI and his license get revoked. The police show up to collect the firearms, does the fact that the wife has a valid LTC mean the firearms can stay in the dwelling? Does it matter if the firearms were purchased by the husband or wife. Do they collect the wife's legally purchased firearms also?

Thank you

Regardless of the law, my understanding is that the police will scoop up ALL firearms/mags/ammo in the dwelling. They aren't going to take the time or concern themselves with the "legalities" of who owns what. Also, I'm aware that some (certainly not all, and probably not even a majority) of chiefs will pull the spouse's LTC as well as being "unsuitable" due to being in the same residence as another "unsuitable" (or if convicted . . . but that comes way later, PP) person.

So if the spouse wants to claim that her guns shouldn't be confiscated, she will likely be dealing with the bonded warehouse if not dealt with almost instantly . . . and the bonded warehouse may REFUSE to release just hers because their terms are "all or none" of the confiscated guns (even though she doesn't own the rest, that's not the bonded warehouse's problem as their "contract" is with the PD only . . . but the victim pays the bills).

Muddy as hell, right!

Mike, I haven't had time to review all of what you wrote yet.

 

[Mike S]

Thanks, I'm hoping to have it on our website by early next week at the latest.

 

[n1zfg]

When I write a paper for the "general public" I first write it as though I'm explaining it to a 10 year old and then "smarten" it up a little so they don't cotton to the fact I'm talking to them like a child

I usually go for the 7th grade reading level.

 

[Coyote33]

It seems police don't always go the "bonded warehouse" route: Evidence rooms

 

[drgrant]

The above is the main reason why I own only two firearms (one rifle and one shotgun). Moving and hiding two firearms over the border in NH is a lot easier than moving and hiding 20. I was forced to do just that about a decade ago. I will not get into specifics, though.

So you basically lied to the PD when they served the RO against you? (Unless, of course, they never asked. ).

Be aware that under the wrong circumstances doing this can get you prosecuted via Lautenberg. If you do it, you want to make sure that you have zero control of the guns. Lock them up in a relative/friend's safe where you don't know the combination or have keys. This way they cannot claim even in a remote sense that you have possession.

Better yet, live in NH.

That won't stop a 209A. There was another poster here who lived in NH, his ex wife in MA had one served against him, the authorities in MA made a few phone calls and the local PD in NH was at his house, taking his guns with a nice freshly stamped local warrant. He did eventually get it vacated, and got his guns back, but it took a long time, if I recall. The only way confiscation would be blocked is if the state does not have a law prohibiting RO subjects from owning guns. I am pretty sure NH has a mechanism by which to steal guns via an RO... many states do.

-Mike

 

[Coyote33]

...That won't stop a 209A. There was another poster here who lived in NH, his ex wife in MA had one served against him, ...

The guy in New Boston, NH had one against him, and the police went and got his guns from his dealer, who had them on consignment.

 

[drgrant]

The guy in New Boston, NH had one against him, and the police went and got his guns from his dealer, who had them on consignment.

So that guys RO originated in MA too? Wasn't sure about that one. I just know they can cross borders.

-Mike

 

[Coyote33]

So that guys RO originated in MA too? Wasn't sure about that one. I just know they can cross borders.

I don't know, and didn't mean that. I didn't know that is what you meant. I thought you were just telling the other guy that there are restraining orders in NH also.