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[Review] On Target Training NH - Defensive Carbine

Cloverleaf Firearms Group

Cloverleaf Firearms Group

Instructor
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Messages
1,364
Likes
871
Location
Central Massachusetts
Feedback: 17 / 0 / 0
I had the opportunity to take this class yesterday with edmorseiii and jibbr at Pemi F&G in Holderness NH, and had a blast.

You might be asking why I'm promoting another training company? Because I believe a rising tide lifts all ships, and that once you start taking training classes... you won't stop. Anyways, I can't speak to the ENTIRE class, because I was late :) When I did get there, I was appropriately shamed, and then I kitted up to jump in.

Seth has a solid teaching style, and definitely 'crawl, walk, run' the class throughout the day without it feeling tedious or boring. There was a decent mix of running the guns at speed, and taking the time to dial in on smaller targets. Seth has a TON of energy, and just makes you want to train hard, even in crappy weather. Seth was right on top of people as far as safety went, and got right on anything that he thought was dangerous. That's huge in ANY shooting class, but significantly more important in a rifle class... I don't think I need to elaborate on why.

Seth is big on communication, and running your gun with a combative mindset, which I can dig. We eventually worked into some rifle to pistol transition work, and then into larger 'shoot, move, communicate' drills that have a ton of value in terms of developing your overall awareness as a shooter. This is CRITICAL. I haven't been in a gunfight, but I've been in few messes... I can tell you that if you can't maintain a level of awareness in chaos, you are way behind the power curve.

Overall, I had a great day. I picked up some new teaching/training ideas, and got to sling lead with a group of good dudes. I don't teach as many classes as Seth due to my full-time job, so I always recommend him for New England regional training. You're basically getting national level information/tactics, for less money, less travel, and less BS.

Thanks again Seth.

Seth's YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/wishse
Website: http://on-target-training.net/
 
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Cloverleaf Firearms Group said:
I had the opportunity to take this class yesterday with edmorseiii and jibbr at Pemi F&G in Holderness NH, and had a blast.

You might be asking why I'm promoting another training company? Because I believe a rising tide lifts all ships, and that once you start taking training classes... you won't stop. Anyways, I can't speak to the ENTIRE class, because I was late :) When I did get there, I was appropriately shamed, and then I kitted up to jump in.

Seth has a solid teaching style, and definitely 'crawl, walk, run' the class throughout the day without it feeling tedious or boring. There was a decent mix of running the guns at speed, and taking the time to dial in on smaller targets. Seth has a TON of energy, and just makes you want to train hard, even in crappy weather. Seth was right on top of people as far as safety went, and got right on anything that he thought was dangerous. That's huge in ANY shooting class, but significantly more important in a rifle class... I don't think I need to elaborate on why.

Seth is big on communication, and running your gun with a combative mindset, which I can dig. We eventually worked into some rifle to pistol transition work, and then into larger 'shoot, move, communicate' drills that have a ton of value in terms of developing your overall awareness as a shooter. This is CRITICAL. I haven't been in a gunfight, but I've been in few messes... I can tell you that if you can't maintain a level of awareness in chaos, you are way behind the power curve.

Overall, I had a great day. I picked up some new teaching/training ideas, and got to sling lead with a group of good dudes. I don't teach as many classes as Seth due to my full-time job, so I always recommend him for New England regional training. You're basically getting national level information/tactics, for less money, less travel, and less BS.

Thanks again Seth.

Seth's YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/wishse
Website: http://on-target-training.net/
Click to expand...

Glad to hear. I've known Seth for a while but will be taking my first class this August with him
 
[popcorn]


Dropping something like that on an otherwise positive thread is pretty ballsy: Hope you have something solid to back that up.
 
I've taken a bunch of classes with Seth over the years and always come away a better shooter and with some new information I didn't have before. I find him to be informative and be really good at figuring out who he has in the class and adjusting from there. Safety is always a priority and Seth does a great job of making sure everyone is comfortable (especially newer shooters) with what he is asking them to do before doing it. Have taken classes from Carbine 1 - 3 and would have been there yesterday but we're in the middle of a move.

Glad someone else showed up late though, I always seem to get to Seth's courses at least 20 minutes late.
 
Ink said:
He will not get a dime from me.
Click to expand...

Care to explain? I've been sub'd to Seth's YouTube and he always had nice demonstrations, one day I'll sign up for a class. (And with stu)

Also if your advertising your own training in your signature shouldn't you pay the fee to go orange and be a dealer/instructor.
 
I don't know what happened. AJ has never said anything in classes about being dissatisfied. I like AJ, have great respect for his skills and appreciate his efforts to support guys like Greg and the shooting community! AJ has come to several classes when we hosted Greg "Cruz" of Interactive Gun-fighting. Greg is now the Chief Instructor at Smith and Wesson.

As far as I know, AJ has only attended classes where Greg was the instructor (I was the host and assisted Greg). Greg is top notch, one of the best guys I've trained with. Greg has, far, far more real world experience than I do). In fact the reason we hosted Greg was because of his extensive experience and skills. Greg is the real deal and everyone should work with him if they can.

Again, I've reached out to AJ via PM, email, Facebook and voice mail asking him to contact me so I can try to make things right. but haven't heard from him yet. I'm hoping AJ will contact me and tell me how I can fix things with him.

Thanks to the rest of you for your words of support!
 
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Ink said:
He will not get a dime from me.
Click to expand...

I thought I was going to go an entire week without seeing an intentionally vague negative post on NES about some shop, vendor, etc... but I guess I was wrong. [rofl]


-Mike
 
drgrant said:
I thought I was going to go an entire week without seeing an intentionally vague negative post on NES about some shop, vendor, etc... but I guess I was wrong. [rofl]


-Mike
Click to expand...

Mike, I appreciate feedback form anyone (good, bad or ugly). I just feel badly that I don't know what I did wrong, or what I can do to make things right. I have great respect for AJ as a marksman and businessman.
 
Wishse said:
I don't know what happened. AJ has never said anything in classes about being dissatisfied. I like AJ, have great respect for his skills and appreciate his efforts to support guys like Greg and the shooting community! AJ has come to several classes when we hosted Greg "Cruz" of Interactive Gun-fighting. Greg is now the Chief Instructor at Smith and Wesson.

As far as I know, AJ has only attended classes where Greg was the instructor (I was the host and assisted Greg). Greg is top notch, one of the best guys I've trained with. Greg has, far, far more real world experience than I do). In fact the reason we hosted Greg was because of his extensive experience and skills. Greg is the real deal and everyone should work with him if they can.

Again, I've reached out to AJ via PM, email, Facebook and voice mail asking him to contact me so I can try to make things right. but haven't heard from him yet. I'm hoping AJ will contact me and tell me how I can fix things with him.

Thanks to the rest of you for your words of support!
Click to expand...

Yup, That sounds like the Seth I know.

Anyone else taking the August class?
 
Wishse said:
Mike, I appreciate feedback form anyone (good, bad or ugly). I just feel badly that I don't know what I did wrong, or what I can do to make things right. I have great respect for AJ as a marksman and businessman.
Click to expand...

Feedback is good, constructive, and detailed. That was just a shot across the bow with no substance. As you can tell by the responses, it doesn't carry a lot of weight.

It's a good sign that you want to learn from whatever perceived slight he got. Keep fighting the good fight and ignore the asshats.
 
I've been planning on signing up for a course with Seth for some time now. One day... one day when I have the time.
 
noxin said:
Feedback is good, constructive, and detailed. That was just a shot across the bow with no substance. As you can tell by the responses, it doesn't carry a lot of weight.

It's a good sign that you want to learn from whatever perceived slight he got. Keep fighting the good fight and ignore the asshats.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I appreciate that. All the best, SW
 
Well, I will echo everything. Cloverleaf said about the day. I've trained with Seth a number of times and never have I left thinking I didn't get more than my money's worth. To go through a class with two good friends like I did yesterday was even better. These are guys that I've trained hard with before and we were still challenged in this session. Seth definitely has a way of getting you into your groove....then knocking you right the hell out of it to challenge your skills. By the way, another shout out to Brad from BG gunworks. Brad is an instructor that works with Seth, and has his own FFL/gunsmith/holster shop, and does really nice work. He's also a machine behind a gun of any sort. I've only ever seen one other person who is as consistent in his mechanics, and that dude may have started this thread. [wink].

I'm kind of bummed that this thread turned into a little bit of a shit show, but am curious to see if the lone dissenter will put his money where his mouth is and at least tell Seth why he's so upset. I've PM'd as well, because I'm really interested. Shitposters are gonna shitpost, but we'll see if that's what this really is.

Thanks again for a great day Seth, see you again soon.

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk
 
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jibbr71 said:
Well, I will echo everything. Cloverleaf said about the day. I've trained with Seth a number of times and never have I left thinking I didn't get more than my money's worth. To go through a class with two good friends like I did yesterday was even better. These are guys that I've trained hard with before and we were still challenged in this session. Seth definitely has a way of getting you into your groove....then knocking you right the hell out of it to challenge your skills. By the way, another shout out to Brad from BG gunworks. Brad is an instructor that works with Seth, and has his own FFL/gunsmith/holster shop, and does really nice work. He's also a machine behind a gun of any sort. I've only ever seen one other person who is as consistent in his mechanics, and that dude may have started this thread. [wink].

I'm kind of bummed that this thread turned into a little bit of a shit show, but am curious to see if the lone dissenter will put his money where his mouth is and at least tell Seth why he's so upset. I've PM'd as well, because I'm really interested. Shitposters are gonna shitpost, but we'll see if that's what this really is.

Thanks again for a great day Seth, see you again soon.

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Thanks Man. Yeah, pretty frustrated that I have no ideal what the issue was or is. I've refereed business to AJ and enjoyed his company in Greg's Classes. Totally confused by the whole thing. I'm of the school where if you got an issue with someone, you tell them directly. In that context most of us try to do the right thing and own what we did wrong and then try to fix it, and make amends. Once again AJ, if you see this please give me a call and allow me to make it right. If I screwed up, I will own it.

BTW Josh, I appreciated having your trio in the class. All you guys are dialed in and looking to push your skills. Looking forward to seeing you, Ed and Stu again. Agree with you about Brad and BGgunworks.com . Brad is a rockstar on any firearm and the best Gunsmith I know. He does all my work and he's also working on a On Target Training Signature gun (S&W M&P with RMR). This gun will be a big upgrade to the CORE because its specifically cut and milled for the RMR. It will have the Iron Sight in front or behind the RMR depending on user preference.
 
kalash said:
I've been planning on signing up for a course with Seth for some time now. One day... one day when I have the time.
Click to expand...


This. I got the email from Pemi late last week for this course and seriously considered making the drive up last minute. One of these days, haha.
 
Ink said:
I have responded.
Seth is free to share my response if he chooses.
Click to expand...

"I believe in whole or in part, that you are copycating Cruz's curriculum.
If i am proven wrong, then you shall have my sincere apology."

Folks, AJ, was concerned that I was using Greg Cruz's training methodology. For the record I use my methodology, system and style which is mine alone. Also for the record, Greg is an amazing instructor and has crazy skills. He is also a highly decorated Combat Vet, a Hero. I am not in Greg's league and never claimed to be. It's why he is the Chief Instructor at S&W!

I wish to point out no trainer owns the 1-5 drills or the Dot Torture Drill. I personally have taken 7 classes with Greg. I've learned a ton from him and have shared some of his techniques with students while giving Greg the credit for the specific exercise or drills. I've hosted Greg repeatedly to support him and expose others to his amazing knowledge.

The classes we provide / teach use some of the standard drills that have been used by every school and trainer, since I started training 20 years ago. These include, Speed, Accuracy, Shooting, Moving and Communicating. The drills we use are also used by Sig Sauer, Front Site and every other trainer out there.

I'm hoping that this clears up the confusion. I appreciate AJ's concerns and loyalty to Greg.

Let's move on and get back to training! Thanks, Seth
 

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