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Retro AR build

daekken

daekken

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So, I'd like to do a retro AR build.
I've always thought the A1 triangular handguards were aesthetically pleasing. Is there any reason, other than being anachronistic, not to pair them with an A2 upper receiver? Is there anything special required to install them compared to the regular handguards?

I've also heard they can be awkward for lefties, but I've never been given a reason why. I'm wondering if this was more for the A1 in general since it lacked the brass deflector.
 
Yes, the reason they were problematic for left handed shooters was there was no brass deflector and the brass would end up in your shirt sleeve or down your collar. A plastic clip on brass deflector was the remedy back in the day. If none were available, you sucked it up and taped your cuffs closed and buttoned your shirt up tight.
I'm left handed and got more than a couple of hot brass down the fatigue shirt on the range.

The triangular hand guards look ok but become very slippery in heat with sweaty hands(or bloody hands) and in wet or dry extreme cold with mittens or gloves on. Its probably the worst designed handguard ever made on any rifle....and they made millions of them.

As something to look at they are ok, for combat use? not so much.
 
Uzi2 said:
Yes, the reason they were problematic for left handed shooters was there was no brass deflector and the brass would end up in your shirt sleeve or down your collar. A plastic clip on brass deflector was the remedy back in the day. If none were available, you sucked it up and taped your cuffs closed and buttoned your shirt up tight.
I'm left handed and got more than a couple of hot brass down the fatigue shirt on the range.

The triangular hand guards look ok but become very slippery in heat with sweaty hands(or bloody hands) and in wet or dry extreme cold with mittens or gloves on. Its probably the worst designed handguard ever made on any rifle....and they made millions of them.

As something to look at they are ok, for combat use? not so much.
Click to expand...
Yeah, someone once said it was something to do with the handguards specifically, but I think they meant the brass deflector, which I totally understand. I'd use an A2 style upper, which would make it--I don't know, A1.5? This particular setup would be just for fun, I have an M4-style carbine with the modern bells and whistles.

I think I would end up with an A2 clone but with the triangular handguards of an A1. I don't think I've seen an A1 stock set and I've never seen the merits of A1 vs. A2 stock discussed. Maybe I'd be better off sticking with and A2 build throughout.
 
I wouldn't be so quick to write off the A1 style handguards. Perhaps if you are planning on operating in jungle climates and getting your hands really bloody, there are more practical choices. But for a lightweight, comfortable to hold, easy to rest on a sandbag, classic look, they are worth considering. I have a couple Classic A1 style ARs and did an A2 build with walnut A1 style stock, grip, and handguard. They are among my favorites. My personal opinion is that you can find tons of poorly designed, ugly as sin options, that would make far worse choices. If you decide to pursue this option, just make sure that the handguard end cap accepts the triangle shape. I don't believe that all do.
 
What's up, Daekken-

I have some vintage triangular guards on my CMP Modern Military rifle. I like them a lot & the flat bottom is definitely nice with the sling. Wish there was a free float version for Highpower competition. Maybe there is and I have not seen it yet.

They will work fine with your A2 upper. As mentioned above, just make sure that the front end cap is triangular- I think most are. I just used whatever upper I had in the parts bin- maybe a Spikes or an Anderson. With a Criterion skinny mil spec barrel this upper shoots way better than I do. Will shoot all 10's, close to the x-ring off the bench at 100 yards. Shot my best offhand with it, a 92.

I have Creedmoor and Anschutz shooting gloves. They grip the smooth plastic just fine and the gloves are well broken in.
 
A1 stock is 5/8" shorter....it's what I run on my ARs. It gets me up and behind the rear sight much better especially in sitting and off hand.
The A1 hardware is out there. The original stuff can be brittle. I lost a piece of my A1 stock a few years ago.
You can also take a look around for A1 uppers. I have seen a few for good prices pop up.
 
Thanks guys. I'm thinking an A1 setup but with an A2 upper for the brass deflector might be doable. Or a straight A1 and just deal with the brass.

I took my carbine out the other day for the first time in a few months and forgot how much fun they can be, even for a "poo-say gun."
 
The more I look around and think about, the more I think I'll go for an as-accurate A1 build as I can.
I see Brownells has a repro A1 furniture set with handguards, grip and stock fairly cheaply, but the reviews are not very good. This project will probably take a while. At least since this is the internet age it might make finding parts and such easier.

Been hoping for find some black Friday deals but not much on this front. Though I did grab a Hornady tumbler for 50% off :)
 
I did not see much of any deals for black fiday that where any better than the last 4 weeks of pre black friday deals.
I like the retro A1 look but unless you really want that i would build a accurate shooter too.
My base RRA A2 has been pretty darn accurate and was inexpensive. I actually bought the upper cheaper than I could build it several years ago. It's as close to modern mil as I can get. I have that silly "military style" bird cage break. It's a 1/9 twist and the lighter varmint bullets shoot well.
I let my friend shoot it at last modern military match. I think he took the 5th highest score?
 
I do like the look of the A1. I have seen some "deals" but for 16 in flat tops, etc. Nothing A1 style (or even A2 family).

I got an LPK on a pre-Black Friday sale.
Although it has an A2 grip so if I want the true look I'll need another, but they're not expensive anyway. Not bad to have a spare. I had to dremel through one once.
 
daekken said:
I do like the look of the A1. I have seen some "deals" but for 16 in flat tops, etc. Nothing A1 style (or even A2 family).
Click to expand...
The A2 is going to the wayside much like the A1 in 10-20 years the A2 will get its "retro" revival.
I think the only places actually offering A2s are the ones building NM service rifles. Even those are getting slim.
I see some selling the 20" A2 as "classic" now.
 
I have seen some A2 completed uppers at a few vendors, but few and far between. Much less common.

I dunno, I could maybe get a completed A2 upper and just switch the handguards out. Won't be as historically accurate but might be more practical.
 
I've seen A2 stripped uppers as cheap at $30. The cheapest I can find a stripped A1 upper is $140. Quite a bit of difference. I guess demand plays a role.
 
To each there own but why anyone wants a A1 sight set up is beyond me. Good for battle zero and hits on torso out to about 300m it's a decent set up I guess. For target shooting not so much.
 
Based on the dearth and cost of A1 parts, I'm thinking maybe getting a new complete A2 and then swapping the handguards, and forward assist to the tear drop style. The lower will use an A1 stock. That way I get the better A2 sights and the brass deflector while still resembling the A1 style.
Debating on getting the 3 prong muzzle device.

Part of my thinks I might as well go big though and try to get as close as possible. Wouldn't help the coffers though.
 
daekken said:
Based on the dearth and cost of A1 parts, I'm thinking maybe getting a new complete A2 and then swapping the handguards, and forward assist to the tear drop style. The lower will use an A1 stock. That way I get the better A2 sights and the brass deflector while still resembling the A1 style.
Debating on getting the 3 prong muzzle device.

Part of my thinks I might as well go big though and try to get as close as possible. Wouldn't help the coffers though.
Click to expand...
Keep a look out for SP1 uppers they are not very expensive at times.
 
anyone got any good info on the large pin uppers? I know they make a bushing for like $4 that is supposed to allow you to pair a large pin upper to a small pin lower, but it looks like some of the reviews are not great. Worried that a good deal could end up being a headache.
 
jasons said:
Lots of retro (reproduction) parts here: http://www.nodakspud.com/
Click to expand...
Unfortunately he's sold out of (I believe) everything.
Weighing the pros and cons on upper receivers... I'd be willing to do an A2 receiver, but for the cost an A3 style with a removable carry handle is looking a lot more financially prudent. It doesn't look as good though.
 
So I've got a lead on an A3 upper with a 1:7 twist 20'' A2 profile barrel (I know A1 had 1:12 but this would allow heavier grain loads) with an A2 FSB sans BCG/charging handle for $200. Strongly leaning towards getting it as I think it'll get me close enough without breaking the bank. Then, toss on the A1 handguards and swap out the forward assist for the teardrop style (at some point). Probably do an A2 carry handle, but I did find someone that makes an A1 style (if I'm already using an A3 upper, the more versatile A2 sights might be worth another compromise).

Another vendor has Colt Competition BCG on sale for $80, anyone have experience with one?
 
How hard is it to remove the gas block etc. to swap out the end cap (to go from the round to the triangular)? It just seems like it would be hard to realign the front sight precisely.

Is it something most smiths would do for a reasonable fee?
 
daekken said:
How hard is it to remove the gas block etc. to swap out the end cap (to go from the round to the triangular)? It just seems like it would be hard to realign the front sight precisely.

Is it something most smiths would do for a reasonable fee?
Click to expand...
the hard part is if the muzzle device is pinned or welded/silver soldered?
Front sight is just drift pins but they are tapered so make sure you drive from the small side of the pin. They can be tough to break free. Front sight block is your friend for this job and a good set of punches.


pretty much the same

https://www.windhamweaponry.com/hand-guard-cap/
 
Last edited:
Watched a few videos last night and it doesn't look too difficult. I mainly wanted to make sure the front site didn't end up canted or something but that doesn't seem likely or maybe even possible. Might need one of those front sight vice-like pin catcher things a lot of the videos are using to keep it supported. I'm just hesitant to risk potential trouble or damage for what is essentially a cosmetic change, but if the point is to do an A1-style build to begin with then it's kind of self-defeating.
It's always my luck to get the very tough to move pins though. I still haven't been able to breakdown my SKS bolt. After a few days of soaking in mineral spirits, and really pounding away, it wouldn't budge. I figured to leave well enough alone, it's never given me any functional or safety problems.
 
ah ak/sks bolt woes, I fabricated a oak block to support my bolt with a "hole" for the pin to drop into. A really nice punch just a touch smaller than the pin and a good hammer will do. I boiled my AK bolt until good and hot. It took 2 solid hits to get it moving. Once it broke free it went easy.
 
mac1911 said:
ah ak/sks bolt woes, I fabricated a oak block to support my bolt with a "hole" for the pin to drop into. A really nice punch just a touch smaller than the pin and a good hammer will do. I boiled my AK bolt until good and hot. It took 2 solid hits to get it moving. Once it broke free it went easy.
Click to expand...
YES a front sight block is your friend
 
daekken said:
So, I'd like to do a retro AR build.
I've always thought the A1 triangular handguards were aesthetically pleasing. Is there any reason, other than being anachronistic, not to pair them with an A2 upper receiver? Is there anything special required to install them compared to the regular handguards?

I've also heard they can be awkward for lefties, but I've never been given a reason why. I'm wondering if this was more for the A1 in general since it lacked the brass deflector.
Click to expand...
http://www.jsesurplus.com/CUSTOM20L...etro+Items+are+back+in+STOCK&utm_medium=email
 
Sometimes those front sight taper pins are a MF to get out. I think some manufacturers must press them in with a arbor press or something. (Then others don't even use real taper pins and you can tap them out with a jewler's hammer. Depends on who built it I guess.)
 

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