Restaurant/Bar Carry

[Western Man]

Is it illegal to carry concealed in a bar if you are not drinking?

I guess the answer is that it is legal to carry in a bar so long as you are not consuming alcohol. But MA has so many asinine laws I need to check on this one.

 

[bostonshovel]

During my LTC Class it was said you can carry in a bar..Drinking is NOT reccomended though

 

[Rockrivr1]

I do not believe there is any specific laws saying you cannot carry in a bar or restaurant. But, if you are carrying, common sense would indicated that you shouldn't be drinking at all. Seeing the very low threshold on being leagally drunk in Mass, even one beer in your system will get you screwed if you actually need to use your CCW.

 

[Producer]

In Mass you can. NP there. There are many threads in NES Forums on this subject.

As for drinking; not worth the risk, or more importantly the safety of yourself and others.

 

[Palladin]

In Mass you can. NP there. There are many threads in NES Forums on this subject.

As for drinking; not worth the risk, or more importantly the safety of yourself and others.

Ditto.

btw, nice previous avatar...how's you get that pic of my wife?

 

[Half Cocked]

Not illegal to carry inside a bar or restaurant but keep in mind the following law.

Carrying Loaded Firearm Under Influence

C. 269 § 10H Carrying a Firearm While Under the Influence of Liquor or Drugs

whoever, having in effect a license to carry firearms issued under section 131 or 131F of chapter 140
. carries on his person, or has under his control in a vehicle
. a loaded firearm, as defined in section 121 of said chapter 140
. while under the influence of intoxicating liquor or marijuana, narcotic drugs, depressants or stimulant substances, all as defined in section 1 of chapter 94C, or the vapors of glue.

PENALTY M—Violators shall be punished by a fine of not more than $5,000 or by imprisonment in the house of correction for not more
than two and one-half years, or by both such fine and imprisonment.

 

[Underwhere]

Is it illegal to carry concealed in a bar if you are not drinking?

I guess the answer is that it is legal to carry in a bar so long as you are not consuming alcohol. But MA has so many asinine laws I need to check on this one.

It's not illegal to carry anywhere in MA except on school property.
Other places have their own regulations on whether you can carry or not. You have to respect that or knowingly violate their wishes because they are not "law".

I carry into restaurants and bars all the time. I don't drink though.

 

[pdm]

PENALTY M—Violators shall be punished by a fine of not more than $5,000 or by imprisonment in the house of correction for not more
than two and one-half years, or by both such fine and imprisonment.

AKA, getting your ticket punched for all eternity.

 

[paulgla]

Not a problem in MA nor in NH. I believe in ME you can't carry in an establishment that sells alcohol.

 

[jdubois]

It's not illegal to carry anywhere in MA except on school property.

Digging around, I just found this law. It's clearly meant to apply to hunting, but it seems to me it could be loosely interpreted to mean it's illegal to carry in or near anybody else's home without their explicit permission!

"A person shall not [...] possess a loaded firearm [...] within five hundred feet of any dwelling in use, except as authorized by the owner or occupant thereof."

 

[paulgla]

Digging around, I just found this law. It's clearly meant to apply to hunting, but it seems to me it could be loosely interpreted to mean it's illegal to carry in or near anybody else's home without their explicit permission!

"A person shall not [...] possess a loaded firearm [...] within five hundred feet of any dwelling in use, except as authorized by the owner or occupant thereof."

That does refer to hunting. One must also be careful because courthouses, post offices, federal buildings, etc are off limits. This also includes such area as the National Seashore on Cape Cod because it is a federal park.

 

[dixidawg]

Carrying Loaded Firearm Under Influence

Is "under the influence" defined anywhere?
Would it be legally the same as driving under the influence ? .08?

I've always gone on the side of caution on this and assumed that the limit here was 0.00. Is it?

 

[paulgla]

it is always illegal to carry under the influence. stupid too.

 

[dixidawg]

Agree, but what is "under the influence"? Is it defined anywhere? Or are we waiting for a test case?

 

[jdubois]

That does refer to hunting.

I know it's meant to refer to hunting, but it doesn't actually say that... that was my worry.

 

[Cross-X]

"Under the influence" in this context is not defined anywhere in MA law. One is not even entitled to a breath test, and there is no requirement that an officer give field sobriety tests. His opinion of intoxication may or may not be enough to carry the day.

I won a three day long jury trial where this was one of the issues. My client was apprehended while driving his Bronco, and admitted to drinking one draft beer. The Malden cop gave no FSTs, did not demand a breath test, and did not charge my client with OUI.

I made sure to make it extra painful for the cop when I had him in the witness box.

 

[dixidawg]

youch!

 

[paulgla]

http://www.nraila.org/statelawpdfs/MASL.pdf

"It is unlawful for a person with a license to carry on the person or in a vehicle a loaded handgun while under the influ¬ence of alcohol or a controlled substance." page 3

 

[FeeBear]

Not a problem in MA nor in NH. I believe in ME you can't carry in an establishment that sells alcohol.

In Maine, the location needs a sign prohibiting Firearms at a bar or Restaurant for it to be illegal.

Fee

 

[jdubois]

http://www.nraila.org/statelawpdfs/MASL.pdf

Those NRA pages are a great place to start. But when asking detailed questions, it's much better to cite the actual law, as Half Cocked did earlier in the thread.

 

[M1911]

Is it illegal to carry concealed in a bar if you are not drinking?

No.

I guess the answer is that it is legal to carry in a bar so long as you are not consuming alcohol.

Yes.

 

[paulgla]

Those NRA pages are a great place to start. But when asking detailed questions, it's much better to cite the actual law, as Half Cocked did earlier in the thread.

Good point

 

[Half Cocked]

"Under the influence" in this context is not defined anywhere in MA law. One is not even entitled to a breath test, and there is no requirement that an officer give field sobriety tests. His opinion of intoxication may or may not be enough to carry the day.

I won a three day long jury trial where this was one of the issues. My client was apprehended while driving his Bronco, and admitted to drinking one draft beer. The Malden cop gave no FSTs, did not demand a breath test, and did not charge my client with OUI.

I made sure to make it extra painful for the cop when I had him in the witness box.

Darius, I am not defending anyone or looking for an argument but
why did you find it necessary to "make it painful for the cop"

You said yourself that there is no legal definition of "under the influence" and your client admitted that he had been drinking. You referred to the opinion of the officer of "intoxication". The statute states "under the influence" not "intoxicated".

I admit that if the defendant was not "intoxicated" which would have resulted in an OUI (if the elements of OUI were present..operation..public way etc..) it would be a non-factor to me and I would never have charged him but that is due to my personal belief and opinion.

The fact that an officer enforced a law that is intended to be an issue of public safety that offers no baseline or threshold is the fault of legislature not the officer.

How many times have we heard..."two glasses of wine with dinner..officer" and they blow a .20 on the BT.

Just curious.. was your client asked to perform FST's and refused. Don't call for a mistrial!

Now..with that said..if the officer lied or testified poorly or changed the facts when on the stand then feel free to tee up on him

I just feel that in this particular circumstance...due to the ambiguity of "under the influence" it is an issue that is left to the jury to decide and will have to be appealed and decided before there is a definitive answer. So with that being the case the officer should be cut some slack.

For the record I have encountered many a licensed gun owner who had been drinking and have never thought about charging them as they were not "intoxicated" but I would have had a hard time arguing with another officer who had.

My own belief is that I will use the standard of "intoxicated" w/FST's etc.. until ruled upon.

 

[Half Cocked]

Darius, I have never actually looked up the jury instructions on this chapter and section. I am curious how the jury is charged in regards to this. It may actually help to answer the topic.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Just curious.. was your client asked to perform FST's and refused. Don't call for a mistrial!

Ever wonder why whenever you read about an officer being arrested for DUI, the report always seems to indicate a refusal of the BAC?

In a MA DUI case, the jury is not permitted to know that the defendant refused a BAC test, and the jury must be instructed that no inference may be drawn from this fact. There is an administrative penalty of license suspension, however, it's much easier for an attorney to beat a DUI case when there is no BAC - and the jury is wondering why the defendant was not given this chance to show he was under the limit.

Darius, I am not defending anyone or looking for an argument but why did you find it necessary to "make it painful for the cop"

Perhaps this was the best technique to elicit testimony that would lead to a not guilty verdict. I suspect that Darius's priority was winning the case - and his record on this one speaks for itself.