Repeal the Assault Weapons Ban in 2018

Glockster30

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You guys are really keyed into what's going on in your home state huh? The tax rate has indeed been dropping .05% / year since 2002 and will hit 5% again in 2018 (from 5.85%)


If not sarcasm, are we supposed to be proud of this, not to mention that whenever the legislature feels like it, they will just vote to increase it again?
 

E.Stoner

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Rob Boudrie

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If not sarcasm, are we supposed to be proud of this, not to mention that whenever the legislature feels like it, they will just vote to increase it again?
It would have hit 5.00% a few years ago if the legislature did not vote to void a referendum vote.
 

voidoid

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Massachusetts Ballot, 2018
Question 1. Prohibition of a ban on modern sporting arms.

Maybe it's all in how you say it. I always figured there'd be no chance of a ballot proposal coming through for our side. Massive amounts of money would pour in from Bloomberg and cronies to push propaganda against the measure, and that's most likely how it would fail. Still, it'd be interesting to at least discuss how the measure would be worded, if we were going to word it in a manner that might confuse the uninformed antigun voter.
 
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This is a well meaning, but deeply flawed idea if you like the idea of the Second Amendment protecting a 'normal' right. If you believe that so-called assault weapons are protected by the Second Amendment, why subject the exercise of that right to a popular vote? Just on principle you'd be depreciating the Second Amendment's status as a fundamental right. Fundamental (and enumerated) rights stand above popular acceptance.

By that same logic, some southern states would have been able to re-enact Jim Crow laws based upon popular sentiment. This is a very bad for many reasons. The opposition likes to try and make this a popularity contest. Ballot initiatives designed to protect rights only serve to make rights subject to prevailing popular sentiment.
 

StevieP

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This is a well meaning, but deeply flawed idea if you like the idea of the Second Amendment protecting a 'normal' right. If you believe that so-called assault weapons are protected by the Second Amendment, why subject the exercise of that right to a popular vote? Just on principle you'd be depreciating the Second Amendment's status as a fundamental right. Fundamental (and enumerated) rights stand above popular acceptance.

By that same logic, some southern states would have been able to re-enact Jim Crow laws based upon popular sentiment. This is a very bad for many reasons. The opposition likes to try and make this a popularity contest. Ballot initiatives designed to protect rights only serve to make rights subject to prevailing popular sentiment.

So you're saying it should be done in the courts instead?
 

namedpipes

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Massachusetts Ballot, 2018
Question 1. Prohibition of a ban on modern sporting arms.

Maybe it's all in how you say it. ...

How about:

A Bill to Prohibit the Transfer or Possession of Firearms Lacking a Safety Mechanism Except As Manufactured.

(All firearms were and are manufactured either with a safety or without one. This wording might prevent you selling/owning a firearm that was made with a safety but you removed it, so somebody can come up with wording that sounds oppressive but is meaningless)



You seriously don't understand the MA electorate. We would get crushed.

Don't be Rick after Negan made him (almost) cut off his son's hand.

Certain failure is NOT a reason not to try.
 

MachineHead

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I thought of something similar in the past, but now I absolutely get what KD is saying. Guys, you really don't want to relegate this to a ballot vote. MA is not ready for this just how the people weren't ready for Marty McFly's guitar solo at the "Enchantment Under the Sea" dance.

We do not have the pull for this and could backfire with California-type referendum results.
 
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So you're saying it should be done in the courts instead?

Yes. Even if you were able to get something like this on the ballot you have two problems:

1) you validate that the Second Amendment is a second class right subject to whatever public sentiment is popular at the time,
2) Who is going going to fight this battle. The current ballot questions have millions of dollars behind them on both sides. I just don't see where the resources are going to come from to support an AWB repeal ballot question. But I know that there'd be an all-out effort to oppose it. In a state with disturbingly low rates of gun ownership, we wouldn't stand a chance.

Just remember, if you're on NES, you're in an echo chamber. Your friends, family, co-workers, etc. may think you're a nice person and may not be worried about what you have in your gun safe, but they'll buy right into all the well-funded propaganda that will be thrown against such a measure.

Just look at what's happening in Maine. They have constitutional carry on the one hand, but after the election they'll also have so-called 'universal background checks' courtesy of a ballot question funded by the likes of Michael Bloomberg.
 

M1911

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The art of politics is understanding what is possible. Picking a political fight that you know you can't win is not a good strategy.
 

namedpipes

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...
1) you validate that the Second Amendment is a second class right subject to whatever public sentiment is popular at the time,
...

Then a Bill or MA Constitutional amendment that asserts that any law that limits or removes any basic human right shall be invalid and unenforceable.

Explain in the opening arguments that this includes the right to be free from discrimination for sexual preference, gender identity, age, race, freedom of speech, yada yada yada. Don't even mention guns. If the opposition says, "but GUNS" ask them why they hate gays and lesbians: This is about basic human rights and barring the State (fine, Commonwealth) from screwing with them.

Again, it surely won't work but at least it puts the other side in the uncomfortable position of explaining why one person is better or worse than the other.

The Podesta emails and common sense make it clear that their strategy is to box "us" into a corner where we sound nuts or at least appeal only to a small sliver of the population. TURN that strategy on them.
 

Billsail

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The 2014 ballot to prohibit indexing the gas tax to inflation barely got the 100,000 certified signatures required, plus the extra thousands that the state wanted, even though it was an initiative that proved popular with the majority of MA voters.
 

JAD

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This does not have a chance of passing in the DPRM, and that's before you factor in the assistance the other side will get from the mainstream media.

An alternative way of framing it would definetely have the potential of being successful, especially if it were veiled correctly. A complete reversal would never happen- but I bet that some sort of assault weapons reform could possibly happen, especially written in a very draconian way (e.g. allowing assault weapon transfer MG license holders, removing the copy and duplicates language, that sort of thing)
 

Chevy 2 65

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The art of politics is understanding what is possible. Picking a political fight that you know you can't win is not a good strategy.
The art of politics is have more money and more connected people in your pocket than the other guy.
 

M125X

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Didn't read the whole thread, so maybe someone else mentioned it...

you guys do realize that Maura, the Attorney General has final say about what gets put on a ballot correct? Doesn't like it? Good-bye!
 
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Well - the American Revolution was only supported by 1/3 of the population. Another 1/3 was opposed, and the final 1/3 was apathetic.

It took 8 years, and the winning of many hopeless battles by irregular troops against a powerful and well trained force, but victory was won.

We can't do the same? Where is the spirit of all those Gadsden flag holders that show up at the GOAL rallies? I'm sure it's here somewhere!


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Chevy 2 65

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Well - the American Revolution was only supported by 1/3 of the population. Another 1/3 was opposed, and the final 1/3 was apathetic.

It took 8 years, and the winning of many hopeless battles by irregular troops against a powerful and well trained force, but victory was won.

We can't do the same? Where is the spirit of all those Gadsden flag holders that show up at the GOAL rallies? I'm sure it's here somewhere!


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It's on the couch with the remote.
 

Obie1

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Well - the American Revolution was only supported by 1/3 of the population. Another 1/3 was opposed, and the final 1/3 was apathetic.

It took 8 years, and the winning of many hopeless battles by irregular troops against a powerful and well trained force, but victory was won.

We can't do the same? Where is the spirit of all those Gadsden flag holders that show up at the GOAL rallies? I'm sure it's here somewhere!


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Unfortunately, this would be supported by less than 10% of the population.
 
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Didn't read the whole thread, so maybe someone else mentioned it...

you guys do realize that Maura, the Attorney General has final say about what gets put on a ballot correct? Doesn't like it? Good-bye!

This.
Great idea but you can't change the fuhrer's rules by vote when you first have to run it by the fuhrer and get approval.
 

M1911

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The art of politics is have more money and more connected people in your pocket than the other guy.

Money and connections certainly help. But the reality is that we don't have the votes. Most people in MA are anti-gun in general and anti "assault weapons" in particular.

Even if we had a ton of money to promote it, we would lose a proposition repealing the assault weapons ban.


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M1911

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Well - the American Revolution was only supported by 1/3 of the population. Another 1/3 was opposed, and the final 1/3 was apathetic.

It took 8 years, and the winning of many hopeless battles by irregular troops against a powerful and well trained force, but victory was won.

We can't do the same? Where is the spirit of all those Gadsden flag holders that show up at the GOAL rallies? I'm sure it's here somewhere!


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So, you are suggesting that we start an armed rebellion?

Or are you suggesting that we push for a vote on a proposition even though we know we will lose?


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