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Rent Control in Massachusetts

Rob Boudrie

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Yes, and Rockport properties start at ~$500k and go up to $2M - so $50-100k down isn't much on a percentage basis depending on the listing price. But, the market has really softened in late 2019.
I've been looking at the lower end of that range and $600k moving to $500k after listing is a huge mispricing. I have no familiarity with movement on the $750k+ properties as I don't even look at those listings :(. Even a 10% drop from the original to final listing price is a big move, especially when you consider that sales at asking or above are unlikely when the entire market is awash with price reductions. What is amusing is seeing $600k properties where the seller thinks a $10k move will make a big difference.

I suspect some of it is agents who promise the world to get a listing, knowing there will be a reduction - but also know that quoting a realistic asking price will not get them the listing.
 

NH_Realtor

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I've been looking at the lower end of that range and $600k moving to $500k after listing is a huge mispricing. I have no familiarity with movement on the $750k+ properties as I don't even look at those listings :(. Even a 10% drop from the original to final listing price is a big move, especially when you consider that sales at asking or above are unlikely when the entire market is awash with price reductions. What is amusing is seeing $600k properties where the seller thinks a $10k move will make a big difference.

I suspect some of it is agents who promise the world to get a listing, knowing there will be a reduction - but also know that quoting a realistic asking price will not get them the listing.
It’s like a wicked cocktail of the agent buying the listing, the location of Rockport being beautiful but not really commutable and the $500K - $1mil market is the first place to get hit when the market turns.
 

andrew1220

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I bought my house JUST in time. My homes value has grown over 35% in the past 6 years.
Same here. I bought mine in summer 2013 which was just before the market shot up. I can't believe how much the value has grown since then. Of course that means I'm paying over $4k in property taxes on a ~1350 SF house....And throw in $1450 for flood insurance... [crying]

But we have a good amount of equity now which is nice.
 

Rob Boudrie

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It’s like a wicked cocktail of the agent buying the listing, the location of Rockport being beautiful but not really commutable and the $500K - $1mil market is the first place to get hit when the market turns.
My favorite line - "Keep in mind that if there is a price change it will be accompanied by a change in the listing agent".

This practice of "buying the listing" helps stretch out the already slow educational process where buyers make the transition from thinking "the value has not changed, it is just harder to find a buyer at the market price" to "Shit, I guess the market value really has dropped".
It’s like a wicked cocktail of the agent buying the listing, the location of Rockport being beautiful but not really commutable
Huh? Cape Ann sportsmens is right nearby :)
 

TLB

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It’s like a wicked cocktail of the agent buying the listing, the location of Rockport being beautiful but not really commutable and the $500K - $1mil market is the first place to get hit when the market turns.
Don't forget the seller that is deciding to turn their "make me move" price into a listing to see if anyone bites. Lots of pie in the sky pricing past few years.
 
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PennyPincher

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Sellers are very slow to accept that a market is/has turned. I was an agent. I know lots of really good ones. I also met MANY bad ones. The bad ones "buy listings" by pricing them too high. A good agent may take a high listing with a solid agreement that there WILL be a quality price reduction in a short time if/when the market remains silent by not getting offers.
 

Broccoli Iglesias

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Hold tight and wait until the next downturn. The gov is trying too hard to keep the economy "growing", borrowing has become way too easy again. The next downturn is not far.

I would not buy anything outside of 95 right now.

And if you want a vacation home, Florida and a lot of the South East are going to crash HARD.
 

MisterHappy

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It's a bit of a commute, but:


It's a lot cheaper in other places.


I only picked this town, as it was where I went for the Eclipse, and it seemed pretty normal.
 

SpencerT

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Same here. I bought mine in summer 2013 which was just before the market shot up. I can't believe how much the value has grown since then. Of course that means I'm paying over $4k in property taxes on a ~1350 SF house....And throw in $1450 for flood insurance... [crying]

But we have a good amount of equity now which is nice.
I don’t get whacked with flood insurance but I do pay over $4k on a 720 SF house on 1/3 of an acre... I do have about $160k in equity but I don’t think I’ll be positioned to move before the market tanks again...
 

Dennis in MA

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tl;dr - if Boston would actually greenlight construction projects, there would be enough housing and prices would naturally stabilize and likely go down.

Nope. We're not gonna stop being tools. We're going to double-down on it by continuing to hold up construction AND f'ing around with landlords so they can't make a profit.

Solution: Condo-ize your building OR just stop maintaining and eek out a profit. NEITHER are good for the neighborhoods.

Frickin morons.
 
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Well I’ll sure make out in the long run. Owning any property is a win. But I’m not putting any money in my pocket monthly.

Actually you should examine that. People think real estate always makes money because they sell for more than what they bought... But they fail to consider currency devaluation. If inflation devalues the currency by 1.5 percent annually - COMPOUNDED - did you really make money in the end? Or is the money just worth less requiring more of it to buy/sell the property? I think some folks would really be surprised at the end result if they considered and calculated compounded inflation into the equation...

Consider the compounded devaluation of the currency in addition to the compounded interest on the mortgage... In the end did you really make money? I would venture to say that in the majority of cases where a mortgage is carried on the property - the answer is surprising - NO. The property value did rise, but at a slower rate then the compounded inflation and interest amounted to. In the end, the property owner actually LOST value. It's just that most property owners don't look at it like that... They only see the sale price of the home vs the purchase price while pretty much paying zero attention to interest, inflation, maintenance costs, etc.

Once you do, you'll realize that real estate really isn't such a great investment. Often times it gets outperformed on the average by low-cost index funds, EFTs and mutual funds that match the S&P.

I think it's a shame they don't teach finance in school anymore. Almost half of high school grads can't even balance a checkbook. Not implying that you Cpatts9747 are like that. This is more just a general statement about real estate as an investment.
 
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Hold tight and wait until the next downturn. The gov is trying too hard to keep the economy "growing", borrowing has become way too easy again. The next downturn is not far.

I would not buy anything outside of 95 right now.

And if you want a vacation home, Florida and a lot of the South East are going to crash HARD.

I believe you're right and in fact I believe it's already here...

"What - PreBanMAn you crazy. The economy is so strong right now, unemployment so low, market growing so fast. Everything is great... you;re an idiot" - average joe on the street

"Really, then can you explain why the fed is printing 70+ billion dollars and pumping it into the repo market almost nightly? Why is the Fed's balance sheet back up to over 4 TRILLION? Isn't this really QE4 and no one is calling it what it is? Doesn't that, in turn, mean we're already in a downturn that is being masked by easy access to fiat money being printed and pumped by the Fed" - PreBanMan

"What's the repo market? QE4, is that a level in a video game?" - average joe on the street. :rolleyes:


....if you're not planning on the economy to falter within the next 12 months, you're planning your own ruin...
 

Dennis in MA

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Yeah. That sucks, eh??? "Oh man. All the rich people are leaving and making our neighborhood go to s-word. That's not fair. Down with Whitey!"

. . . .

"Hey man. All them rich folk are moving in and fixing up these run down houses and pricing us out of of our own neighborhoods. Down with Whitey!"


Take your pick. Keep your neihgborhood and STFU or let them in and improve it. There is no "let's give X-town a pile of money to gentrify it for the current residents."
 
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The "Tenant Protection Act" (aka the tenant forever law) stands a good chance of being enacted. This is MA after all.
It will be a gold mine for the exempted owner occupied 3 deckers who will have the only available vacancies and can charge whatever the market will bear.
 

calsdad

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I've seen sellers ride the price down with repeated reductions, always staying a few tens of $K above current market, repeatedly adjusting to the same premium as the value continues to slide.
Back around the turn of the century, when the market started that crazy climb up in value - the same dynamic was in effect for price increases. Unless you overbid a listing by a sufficient amount you'd likely lose out and then you'd be at an even higher price point on the next house for sale that came along.
We bought our place in 99 and one of the struggles I had was convincing the wife that we would have to OVERBID to get a house, she kept wanting to underbid. We ended up getting a fixer upper, at the listed price, but not after an argument about doing that. She just couldn't get it thru her head what was going on in the market and the pricing was headed up at a rate that was going to price us out of the towns we preferred to be in if we kept losing out on our offers.
 
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GaryO

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Back around the turn of the century, when the market started that crazy climb up in value - the same dynamic was in effect for price increases. Unless you overbid a listing by a sufficient amount you'd like out and then you'd be at an even higher price point on the next house for sale that came along.
We bought our place in 99 and one of the struggles I had was convincing the wife that we would have to OVERBID to get a house, she kept wanting to underbid. We ended up getting a fixer upper, at the listed price, but not after an argument about doing that. She just couldn't get it thru her head what was going on in the market and the pricing was headed up at a rate that was going to price us out of the towns we preferred to be in if we kept losing out on our offers.
In good conscience I could never over bid on a house, no matter how much I wanted it.
 
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Back around the turn of the century, when the market started that crazy climb up in value - the same dynamic was in effect for price increases. Unless you overbid a listing by a sufficient amount you'd like out and then you'd be at an even higher price point on the next house for sale that came along.
We bought our place in 99 and one of the struggles I had was convincing the wife that we would have to OVERBID to get a house, she kept wanting to underbid. We ended up getting a fixer upper, at the listed price, but not after an argument about doing that. She just couldn't get it thru her head what was going on in the market and the pricing was headed up at a rate that was going to price us out of the towns we preferred to be in if we kept losing out on our offers.
Speaking of being priced out, I'm looking forward to the next census that will hopefully shed some light on the insanity that is median family incomes vs shitty to reasonable home cost.

When I look at the demographics of a city or town and then look at what the houses are going for it looks like everyone but me is selling drugs [rofl]
 

Dennis in MA

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In good conscience I could never over bid on a house, no matter how much I wanted it.
That don’t make no sense. Pay what you think it’s worth. The seller tossed out a # which may or may not relate to the true value or what you think it’s worth.

There is a FNMA house up,the street from me. When it comes up, you better believe my bid will be above asking. Need to clear the deadwood from the process.
 

calsdad

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In good conscience I could never over bid on a house, no matter how much I wanted it.
Back then your good conscience would have left you living in your parent's basement.

What you're describing is exactly what my wife kept doing. "I'm not paying full price!!" " We can negotiate!!"

No....... you can't. Not when the market is headed up with a bullet.

When a decent house went up for sale in the price point we could buy at - the open house would be flooded with people and the owners would have an offer almost immediately. If you screwed up and didn't bid the price they were looking for - you'd lose. That happened to us like 4 times. Each time we'd find out that the house had been OVERBID by 10 or 20 grand. My wife was just getting pissed off - my attitude was "the price is the price - you're either going to pay it - or you're going to lose" , which is pretty much my same attitude towards all those people who pissed and moaned about the price of ammunition and guns during the Obama era gun buying sprees BTW.

I was watching the house market pretty closely and after a couple of months of this the trend became pretty clear: prices were rising. And if you missed out on one house at $160k because the offer was for $180, then the next comparable house would be $170k and the offer would be for $185. Sooner or later - we'd just be priced out of buying a decent house in a good town - and then we'd be looking at either condos - or buying a place in a lower end location, or...... just waiting until the market cooled off and the prices fell back down. At the time - I remember the early 90's real estate boom - and I figured that the prices would take a dump in 3-4 years. I didn't want to live in an apartment or a condo for 3-4 years though. As it turned out we came across a place that needed a lot of work - and paid the asking price. Which turned out to be a similar situation as the other houses we had looked at - in that we were the high bidder. I knew I could fix the place up - most of the other people looking at the house were turned off by stupid shit like paint color and the fact the lawn needed to be redone. The wife was STILL balking at paying the asking price - even though it was right in our price zone. She wanted to underbid the asking price - because the house needed work. It ended up in an argument - because even though we had gone around on the merry-go-round 4 times (losing out to higher bids on previous houses we looked at) - she STILL just couldn't get it thru her thick head what was going on in the market.

In retrospect I totally didn't see that the market (this was 1999) was going to keep going up the way it did (didn't crash until 2008 - and never went down to where we were in 99). But also - in retrospect, giving into my wife's misread of the market and "gotta get a bargain" mentality - would have been a life altering bad decision.

Conscience doesn't really count for anything in a real estate market that is exploding - nor does it matter during a gun buying spree. You either pay what the market wants - or somebody else will - and you'll lose out. I don't see this as a matter of conscience - it's a matter of whether you REALLY need whatever that thing is that is exploding in price - or not. And that decision needs to be based on a cold, hard , rational decision making process.

The fact of the matter is that all of those people who overbid the asking prices on those four houses we lost out on - all made out like bandits if they just stayed in the house for 5-6 years and then sold.
 

calsdad

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Speaking of being priced out, I'm looking forward to the next census that will hopefully shed some light on the insanity that is median family incomes vs shitty to reasonable home cost.

When I look at the demographics of a city or town and then look at what the houses are going for it looks like everyone but me is selling drugs [rofl]

I haven't really been following the real estate market anywhere near as closely as I used to 10-15 years ago.

But back then - the very same thing was going on. That was all based on people getting mortgages that they simply just could not afford and not having to pony up any sort of down payment. That movie "The Big Short" referenced some of the craziness pretty accurately with the parts about how people were buying houses with no money down. I remember in 2008 - when it all started blowing up - the Boston Globe ran a series of articles about how people were "suffering" because it was all blowing up. Well one of their examples was a cleaning woman - who bought a $450,000 house in some suburb close to Boston - she got the mortgage ON A CLEANING WOMAN'S SALARY. Then she couldn't even afford to make the first two payments on the mortgage - so her mother moved in and tried to help make the payments. That extended them out for like a year before they were back to not being able to keep up again. The Globe tried to use the story as some example of how the people were getting screwed - but it just came across to me like they were flaming idiots who couldn't do basic math.

If you want to get a real look at the market - you've got to ignore the asking price - and try to see what people are actually paying when the house sells. Depending on where you are - it might be more or less than asking.

The house next to me has sold twice in the last 10 years. Both times it went for about $20k over asking. The last time it sold was about 3 years ago. The same thing happened about 3 years ago for the house on the other side of me - except it wasn't an over asking sale , it was a sold in one day sale.
 
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