Removable stock legal?

Joined
Dec 26, 2019
Messages
90
Likes
73
Feedback: 6 / 0 / 0
I've seen some threads about take-down 10/22s or the henry rifle being legal. How about a removable stock? In essence it will be a "take down" 5.56 rifle. I'd like to fabricate a fixed stock for a piston driven rifle, and be able to remove the stock for storage / transport. Is this legal? The stock length will be unchangelable. The stock will not be foldable.
 
Just my 2 cents (IANAL), but if the rifle can still fire with the removed stock, I think that's automatic no-no. The takedown 10/22's and Sub2000's of the world can't fire when folded/broken down.
 
I've seen some threads about take-down 10/22s or the henry rifle being legal. How about a removable stock? In essence it will be a "take down" 5.56 rifle. I'd like to fabricate a fixed stock for a piston driven rifle, and be able to remove the stock for storage / transport. Is this legal? The stock length will be unchangelable. The stock will not be foldable.

I don't see how a removable stock interfaces with the actual MA AWB at all. (I'm shelving mauras bullshit for the sake of sanity here)

At one point in MA you could buy Bushmaster Carbon 15's, these all came with a detachable stock that slipped over the buffer tube and had a lever that held it in place. They certainly were MA legal as a bunch of dealers sold them.

ETA: There may be minimum OAL issues though depending on what the length of the gun is with the stock removed..... and I think even the carbon hit 26" with the stock off.
 
Last edited:
At one point in MA you could buy Bushmaster Carbon 15's, these all came with a detachable stock that slipped over the buffer tube and had a lever that held it in place. They certainly were MA legal as a bunch of dealers sold them.

Would the buffer tube make the OAL enough to still be a rifle?
 
if you hit 26", I think it does.

I think so too. I should have edited my comment above, meaning if it can fire with removed stock and is under 26" including buffer tube, then removing the stock is a no-no, as OAL should then qualify it as SBR. And even then, that's assuming it isn't already an SBR.
 
Does it fold or telescope? Those are the definitions in the federal AWB that are incorporated, by reference, into the MA AWB.

As an example, the SCAR stock is removable, it's how you remove the bolt and carrier. The rifle isn't designed to be fired with the stock removed, and when a dealer massifies a SCAR stock, they pin the folding mechanism and the telescoping mechanism, presumably to make it "not an assault weapon."
 
I thought ALL stocks were removable...?

FHSW5mtSojhvOojIhiVafG8yc1p-HXAoyfcjnUTG5OJ6Z4AzbOw6gqCeFSEz36OTE_ONM9L6IvQaPE_g6oRzyDDBolrBElmJvumsoQ97oXDPiTdTdfLDfHcZwR2cyqCeEnSFj-tGbkTFPsl44nf8gTrQkHpU94VEvAp6CvEXCHgdvWEjRcZ-ozOx8Hu4YzI

"Quickly" removable is a little different.
Even this one comes off...
 
At one point in MA you could buy Bushmaster Carbon 15's, these all came with a detachable stock that slipped over the buffer tube and had a lever that held it in place. They certainly were MA legal as a bunch of dealers sold them.
You have to take back "as a bunch of dealers sold them" being proof of legality. That is only proof that a bunch of dealers wanted to make money, not that what they were collectively doing was black and white legal.

A bunch of dealers sold Shockwaves with 14.5" barrels before the AG notified everyone it was not legal (hateful, but correct). I can list a lot of other things that "a bunch of dealers" do that are not legal but what is the point?
 
You have to take back "as a bunch of dealers sold them" being proof of legality. That is only proof that a bunch of dealers wanted to make money, not that what they were collectively doing was black and white legal.

I won't take anything back, because those guns were sold nationally during the 94-2004 AWB, which MA's actual ban was nearly a duplicate of.


A bunch of dealers sold Shockwaves with 14.5" barrels before the AG notified everyone it was not legal (hateful, but correct). I can list a lot of other things that "a bunch of dealers" do that are not legal but what is the point?

Wasn't her bullshit there because she said they fell under handgun compliance? Wholly different problem than something being possession legal like what the OP is asking.

-Mike
 
I won't take anything back, because those guns were sold nationally during the 94-2004 AWB, which MA's actual ban was nearly a duplicate of.

-Mike
You misunderstand. I was not making any comment on their legality or lack there of. I was solely objecting to what MA dealers do as proof of anything
 
You misunderstand. I was not making any comment on their legality or lack there of. I was solely objecting to what MA dealers do as proof of anything

True enough, I should have said "pretty much every dealer in america" instead. If we want to get pedantic though even that doesn't make it legal,
either. [laugh]

-Mike
 
What rifle? Any ar15 already has "take down pins". How much more do you need to disassemble?

Edit:
Piston 5.56? Unless you're vaguely referencing a mini 14 we need more info
 
Last edited:
Oh boy, there's a lot of IANAL being tossed around. The rifle can fire with the stock off but I don't think my hip fire technique is as good as Arnie.

I was not aware of the OAL aspect. The rifle is a sig 556 scm, which is a sig 556 variant that is designed for states like ma/ct etc. It does not feature the standard 556 lower which accepts the folding stock, but rather has a dummy buffer tube, despite the piston mechanism out front. The barrel is 16, of course, and the action is close to 10" behind the chamber so I think I am quite close to the 26" OAL requirement.

My thought is basically to shorten the dummy buffer tube to a point where the overall length of the rifle is 26", and use a two-pin captive pin system to attach and detach a fixed stock. I imagine I can still shorten the rifle by at least 10" for transport.

What are some other quick detach systems that people have encountered which can resist multi-directional torque?

A few mechanisms I'm considering are:

- integrate the female trilug adapter into the buffer tube and use the male end on the stock. the standard hk tri-lug is a much thinner diameter tri-lug than the locking system in a ruger take-down for example. The hk style trilug is easy to source but another kind? I think it should be pretty easy to do a mock-up of this / weld something together.

- Arca-swiss style camera plates. These are robust and will slide in, and lock down with the twist of a cammed nut. The benefit here is it may allow adjustment vertically for improved cheek-weld, which does not seem to be an issue legally.

- captive pins as described above

- some kind of tent-pole approach
 
Last edited:
Makes me wonder if filling in the other buffer holes with epoxy would render a stock compliment (vs drill and pin).

Asking for a friend

You never needed to do this, the only reason the manufacturers did this (eg, the shitty tube Queen Bee describes) is because during the AWB with the one hole tubes is because they were acting out of an abundance of caution with the feds, and they also didnt want consumers to think they could just do a 5 minute fix or whatever and get themselves into trouble. Also, at the time, nobody really made a fixed stock that went over a multi position tube, either.

Magpul makes fixed stocks that fit on multi position tubes. The end product is you still will have a legal fixed stock but still retain a normal buffer tube. You can adjust the lop slightly by taking
a screw out, removing the stock and adding or removing a spacer as desired.

-Mike
 
Should the title here be "MA Legal" or are we talking feds? I'm talking feds..

Fed law (I believe, do your own research) is interpreted as "intended" to be fired in such a way (ie under 26 inches). The whole pistol with brace thing rests on this concept, it's a spoon, use it as a fork if you want but that doesn't make it a fork..

I just checked my mini 30 tactical and even without the flash hider (which not being pinned likely wouldn't help the cause anyway) its over 26 inches.. but the topic has come up where people used other folders that make them < 26 and my understanding is legal today (maybe ball bustable by some local fuzz on a mission or the next ATF re-interpretation, so a risk regardless like any of these technicalities).
 
Oh Yahhhh - I'm asking if MA Legal. My mistake. I don't think there's really much difference between MA and Fed in terms of SBR law / OAL unless we're talking Boston, though. Right?
 
Last edited:
I must be completely missing something here. Why not just use the takedown pins to break down upper/lower for your transport?

It sounds like you’re trying to invent a machine that peels oranges instead of just slicing it in half and using your fingers. 🤷‍♂️
 
Well, subjectively It's not a practical answer but I guess the real answer is because i think it's cool. Dare i say, perhaps even tacticool? Especially if it's a trilug. I don't think there's much to invent, aside from just welding a male trilug adapter to one thing, and a female trilug adapter to another thing. I feel like it's no different than getting a pic rail to m lock adapter or something.

The other aspect of this is from a purity and purpose standpoint - I like that a piston system is designed such that it does not require a buffer tube. I'd like to highlight that. I like the aesthetic of an lr300 stock - like you just know it's too thin for a buffer tube.

I do get your point though, and honestly have not considered it. I guess I just don't like how keeping the rifle as two pieces (upper lower) keeps the internals exposed. Now I think that bias on my end is probably dumb.
 
Last edited:
I get the personal preference thing. Cool. It’s yours have fun with it.

What I don’t get is physically modifying things like this at home (unless you’re very well practiced with it, and by your post it seems you are not) an item that is there to save your life or your families life, just for aesthetics.

I don’t have a lot of guns, and none of the ones I do have are or have ever been considered range toys. They are there for one purpose and I need to make sure they will go bang every time I need them to.

The take down pins on AR’s have been used for decades, to take it down. 🤷‍♂️ Can’t even count the number of times I have personally and others I know have carried it that way in a covert type ruck, ready to be slapped together in a matter of seconds with 2 pins and put into action exactly the way it was made to be, with zero effort and zero malfunctions from any internals being exposed.

I’m not posting that to try and change your mind, absolutely have fun with your own stuff, but rather to give you some confidence that the original set up when broken down won’t affect your rifle negatively for carry or transport it that way.
 
Yeah, I dunno, I'm spitballing. I'm not a professional fabricator (IANAPF). I do track days with a dedicated vehicle where safety comes first. I've made heavy modifications in the engine bay / fuel systems / electronics / braking and suspension. There's much more heat, pressure, flammable items, and weight and inertia in that arena, and I'm the passenger. I'm confident in what I can make and more importantly what I can't.

I've not worked on rifles before. I honestly think this is more bracket / furniture fabrication than messing with any of the mechanics of the rifle itself. I think I'll need to fab up a removable stock for my 26" piece of 2x4 with cheap airsoft parts as a proof of concept before proceeding further with real bits.

Your comment carries a lot of weight - that's why I'm here asking people who actually know what their doing. I think you effectively learn'd me on transporting the rifle as two pieces because I had not even considered that.
 
Last edited:
Lot of companies make quick take down pins as well. They’re regular type pins but they stick out a bit on one end (easier to push out) and have a thumb type knob on the other to pull for ease of use. Generally without having those if your pins are tight when trying to push them out, we’d just use the tip of a 5.56 round to give it a little push in the right direction and then grab it with thumb/fingers to pull all the way out. Field expedient.

I’ll be interested to see what you come up with on your fab test. And for knuckle draggers like me pics help a lot. lol
 
Back
Top Bottom