Reloading Rifle - improvements

[Mudflap621]

Good stuff. While you guys are still engaged, I have another question. Both my wifes savage and my tikka seem to shoot better with a clean barrel. But the last time I cleaned our accuracy went down. As a matter of fact, the last two times out for me, shot one was way off. Prior to that, after cleaning, shot one was always right on. It looked like the last time out, my shots started to tighten after my eighth shot. I did not clean it after that session. Now I just need the wind to stop howling so I can determine if the gun needs some fouling.

So what gives? Cleaned too frequently and the last cleaning got too much crap out of the barrel? My gun has been very accurate all summer.

How often are you cleaning? I would prefer to zero on a fouled barrel as a clean bore zero doesn't last long. Depending on load and caliber the cleaning schedules are different IMO. I typically see 30-50fps slower speed on my first few shots on a clean barrel and by 5 it's right back up to normal speeds. No matter hunting or comps I would foul barrel before go time with 10+ rounds to see barrel stabilize and come back to zero.

 

[peterk123]

How often are you cleaning? I would prefer to zero on a fouled barrel as a clean bore zero doesn't last long. Depending on load and caliber the cleaning schedules are different IMO. I typically see 30-50fps slower speed on my first few shots on a clean barrel and by 5 it's right back up to normal speeds. No matter hunting or comps I would foul barrel before go time with 10+ rounds to see barrel stabilize and come back to zero.

I've been trying different things. I did not clean until I started losing accuracy. Then I cleaned it. Then I tried thorough cleans every time. And that is when it went to shit. Then fouled it. And like you said, at around shot eight it started to tighten up and go where is supposed to.

 

[mac1911]

AR platform ?

Mostly but they do fine in my bolt gun also.
Also I will note I only shoot 223/5.56 at cmp games and NRA service rifle.
Which honestly i have only been making it ti cmp games matches at local club
Most of my “pratice” these days is 22lr and pellet gun. I only have the ruger bolt gun because a friend no longer wanted it cause he wanted the ranch that takes AR mags.

 

[Mudflap621]

I've been trying different things. I did not clean until I started losing accuracy. Then I cleaned it. Then I tried thorough cleans every time. And that is when it went to shit. Then fouled it. And like you said, at around shot eight it started to tighten up and go where is supposed to.

Youll want to find a place to clean before you lose accuracy. Never understood the “wait till it falls apart” crowd. I want it to shoot the way I way I expect all the time, I’m not gonna chance missing a shot cause I waited too long wether that be a target or animal.

 

[milboltnut]

You'll want to find a place to clean before you lose accuracy. Never understood the “wait till it falls apart” crowd. I want it to shoot the way I way I expect all the time, I’m not gonna chance missing a shot cause I waited too long weather that be a target or animal.

I just clean the carbon between sessions. The copper stays. it takes quite awhile for it to build up to effect accuracy. I live almost an hour from the range I belong to so I might make two or three trips before deer season. So I'm looking at maybe 50 rounds. It doesn't take much to find that load, now that I found out what makes "that" load. If you shoot a lot, I suggested to bring a cleaning kit to the range. Actually a bore snake would do it for the most part.

 

[EddieCoyle]

well the die touches the shell holder then thread the die a quarter turn past that, that's cam over.

That's not what cam over is.

 

[milboltnut]

That's not what cam over is.

past top dead center the point where the ram reaches the top dead center and starts coming back down.

The reloading world always refers it to camming over. Even if newbs knew this, all that matters is completely contact of the die and shell holder, no gap.

 

[mac1911]

past top dead center the point where the ram reaches the top dead center and starts coming back down.

The reloading world always refers it to camming over. Even if newbs knew this, all that matters is completely contact of the die and shell holder, no gap.

If some new does not know the ram has a higher point other than handle in the full drawn position they are going to struggle a bit. Those not inclined to stop can damage or break things.
Hornady 007 press instructions touch on this but worded very poorly.
vs say the lee classic cast , no cam over.

 

[milboltnut]

If some new does not know the ram has a higher point other than handle in the full drawn position they are going to struggle a bit. Those not inclined to stop can damage or break things.
Hornady 007 press instructions touch on this but worded very poorly

I guess even if they did know the correct terminology, it's still possible to adjust the die too much and break things, that's why any die or reloading books say 1/4 to half turn. When I started loading I never over adjusted past a quarter turn. However, My Lee classic press has stops on it, my 1978 Rock Chucker has the ability to below TDC. I believe they are alot stronger than most people think. Too much adjustment BEFORE things could break, has an indication of a extremely stiff handle going down and getting it back up to release the linkage. I've done that once or twice, but that's it. From there just enough to get the job done, basically fine adjustments helps considerably.

 

[peterk123]

I guess even if they did know the correct terminology, it's still possible to adjust the die too much and break things, that's why any die or reloading books say 1/4 to half turn. When I started loading I never over adjusted past a quarter turn. However, My Lee classic press has stops on it, my 1978 Rock Chucker has the ability to below TDC. I believe they are alot stronger than most people think. Too much adjustment BEFORE things could break, has an indication of a extremely stiff handle going down and getting it back up to release the linkage. I've done that once or twice, but that's it. From there just enough to get the job done. basically fine adjustments helps considerably.

Not sure I follow all this but I'm trying. The quarter to half turn is what increases headspace; yes, no, maybe?

 

[milboltnut]

Not sure I follow all this but I'm trying. The quarter to half turn is what increases headspace; yes, no, maybe?

full contact of the case shoulder and body of the case when you adjust die for the press to go below top dead center. If the die just makes contact with the shell holder without adjusting the die a 1/4 turn past full contact with the shell holder there's will be a gap.. place a case in the shell holder without turning the die a 1/4 turn, raise the ram completely and look between the shell holder and die and you'll see a gap.

 

[scarlett.penelope]

At this point I have loaded about 800 rounds of 223, 308 and 6.5cm. Still a rookie when it comes to rifle rounds but I'm starting to understand what works.

I clean my brass in a tumbler. From there I deprime the brass. I've recently started to clean primer pockets. Mostly because the ginex primers are tight. But I'm finding it is still worth doing. I then size and primer the brass. I use a little Lee lube on my fingers for coating the brass. I make sure the primer is fully seated on a flat surface, then wipe off any lube. Next I check for case length on a sample of brass. I've yet to resize them. I have sets of the Lee case trimmers for when it's time. I then use a Lee powder drop to get within .6 or so grains of my desired charge. Then the redding beam scale is used to get to the final weight. Last, I seat a bullet.

I swapped to a single stage press for my rifle rounds. I feel I just have better control. I am not in a rush. I'm not doing high volume runs.

What else should I be doing? I'm not going for Precision accuracy. But I am shooting for 1 moa or slightly better on a consistent basis.

Thanks. Pete descargar geometry dash 2.11 para pc

Just picked up the latest Handloader magazine at the store. I like John Barsness articles a lot, never met him in person. I understand all the "not worth the effort" stuff and such, however...I surely wish he would stop calling "my favorite" 35 Whelen Ackley Improved as "worthless"! ha You are hurting my rifle's feelings Dr John! I like the fact I can get the same velocity as a maximum loaded 24"bbl standard Whelen but at "lower" pressure in my 22" bbl Improved. Yep, I have a couple of loads that are surely "up there" in pressure, but I never hunt with them! ha I have no problem loading any '06 based cartridge to modern .270 Winchester pressures at all. The Goose and Gander thingy. But the velocity gains I get from a 22" bbl are worth it to me. See, what sold me on the 35 WAI was an article I read in the 80's (or early 90's?) by the late Gary Sitton who wrote on obtaining 2600fps with a 250gr bullet from the 20" bbl mannlicher he made up for elk hunting ( to better utilize the range/ftlbs energy thingy). I liked the concept. I liked the looks of the formed case, and I liked the results of my own loads. I just wish Mr B would "back off my baby"!!!! ha Any other looney Handloaders out there besides me who LOVE the 35 Whelen Ackley Improved 40deg shoulder round? ( See how that long name just "makes it" even better?

 

[PatMcD]

Just picked up the latest Handloader magazine at the store. I like John Barsness articles a lot, never met him in person. I understand all the "not worth the effort" stuff and such, however...I surely wish he would stop calling "my favorite" 35 Whelen Ackley Improved as "worthless"! ha You are hurting my rifle's feelings Dr John! I like the fact I can get the same velocity as a maximum loaded 24"bbl standard Whelen but at "lower" pressure in my 22" bbl Improved. Yep, I have a couple of loads that are surely "up there" in pressure, but I never hunt with them! ha I have no problem loading any '06 based cartridge to modern .270 Winchester pressures at all. The Goose and Gander thingy. But the velocity gains I get from a 22" bbl are worth it to me. See, what sold me on the 35 WAI was an article I read in the 80's (or early 90's?) by the late Gary Sitton who wrote on obtaining 2600fps with a 250gr bullet from the 20" bbl mannlicher he made up for elk hunting ( to better utilize the range/ftlbs energy thingy). I liked the concept. I liked the looks of the formed case, and I liked the results of my own loads. I just wish Mr B would "back off my baby"!!!! ha Any other looney Handloaders out there besides me who LOVE the 35 Whelen Ackley Improved 40deg shoulder round? ( See how that long name just "makes it" even better?

I love my 35 Whelen, but the improved version just wasn't worth the effort for me. The case just doesn't allow for a drastic improvement.
I do own a 7x57 Improved. That case does allow much greater velocities.

 

[pastera]

full contact of the case shoulder and body of the case when you adjust die for the press to go below top dead center. If the die just makes contact with the shell holder without adjusting the die a 1/4 turn past full contact with the shell holder there's will be a gap.. place a case in the shell holder without turning the die a 1/4 turn, raise the ram completely and look between the shell holder and die and you'll see a gap.

All of those rules are secondary markers for what you actually want - a case that is properly sized.
Get a good quality case gauge and set your siting die so that the cases pass gaging.
The rest is just guessing.

 

[mac1911]

All of those rules are secondary markers for what you actually want - a case that is properly sized.
Get a good quality case gauge and set your siting die so that the cases pass gaging.
The rest is just guessing.

Also be mindful of your gauge some will only measure datum to case head and trim length

You can get gauges like this and pray they are machined correctly to saami min spec

223 Remington Ammunition Gauge

Back in stock Choose between SLOTTED or NON-SLOTTED. AMMUNITION GAUGES are uniquely designed to check loaded ammunition, giving you the ability to check your factory ammunition or reloads against a spec chamber. The gauge is machined to the SAAMI minimum chamber spec for the 223…

sheridanengineering.com

So far for me in a 308 in spec chamber fired brass size with a full length die set to push the shoulder back .003-.004” will chamber a cycle in any of my in spec rifles
for segregated brass to one rifle .002” is plenty

 

[pastera]

Also be mindful of your gauge some will only measure datum to case head and trim length

Agree - some manufactures call their head space gauge a case gauge.

A few dollars more gets you a full up case g

223 Remington Ammunition Gauge

Back in stock Choose between SLOTTED or NON-SLOTTED. AMMUNITION GAUGES are uniquely designed to check loaded ammunition, giving you the ability to check your factory ammunition or reloads against a spec chamber. The gauge is machined to the SAAMI minimum chamber spec for the 223…

sheridanengineering.com

 

[Mountain]

1/4 turn past is not gospel. I do want brass fully sized, especially for semi-auto, but reaching that might require some other degree of turning past contact. Usually less for me but it depends on the press. A very solid press with no flex or 'give' doesn't take much. An old turret press without opposite side support might take more.

 

[mac1911]

1/4 turn past is not gospel. I do want brass fully sized, especially for semi-auto, but reaching that might require some other degree of turning past contact. Usually less for me but it depends on the press. A very solid press with no flex or 'give' doesn't take much. An old turret press without opposite side support might take more.

Its a starting point and “should” get you to where the full sized case will work with in specifications.
1/4 turn past contact is .017” or so
Im very rusty with math and formulas but I think thats right.
In the end you need to watch your ram and make sure its at its highest point of travel
I dont thing the RC junior “cams” over
The lee press does not and the 007 press does , a good amount .

All fun stuff . Especially when the the directions are not clear .