Reloading Rifle - improvements

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peterk123

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At this point I have loaded about 800 rounds of 223, 308 and 6.5cm. Still a rookie when it comes to rifle rounds but I'm starting to understand what works.

I clean my brass in a tumbler. From there I deprime the brass. I've recently started to clean primer pockets. Mostly because the ginex primers are tight. But I'm finding it is still worth doing. I then size and primer the brass. I use a little Lee lube on my fingers for coating the brass. I make sure the primer is fully seated on a flat surface, then wipe off any lube. Next I check for case length on a sample of brass. I've yet to resize them. I have sets of the Lee case trimmers for when it's time. I then use a Lee powder drop to get within .6 or so grains of my desired charge. Then the redding beam scale is used to get to the final weight. Last, I seat a bullet.

I swapped to a single stage press for my rifle rounds. I feel I just have better control. I am not in a rush. I'm not doing high volume runs.

What else should I be doing? I'm not going for Precision accuracy. But I am shooting for 1 moa or slightly better on a consistent basis.

Thanks. Pete
 
Check your case length before priming.
And check every one - gives you a chance to look at every neck for cracks.
Grab a set of digital calipers
Clean the jaws real well then zero.
Then open the jaws to max case length minus 0.005 and zero again
Setup this way you can run through about 20 cases/minute - as long as the reading is negative toss it in the good bucket
 
pastera said:
Check your case length before priming.
And check every one - gives you a chance to look at every neck for cracks.
Grab a set of digital calipers
Clean the jaws real well then zero.
Then open the jaws to max case length minus 0.005 and zero again
Setup this way you can run through about 20 cases/minute - as long as the reading is negative toss it in the good bucket
Click to expand...
Great idea!
 
peterk123 said:
Not sure what that is. As in do I go all the way, like to the point where my lever feels like it cams over? If so, then yes.
Click to expand...
well the die touches the shell holder then thread the die a quarter turn past that, that's cam over.

So I guess at this point you don't know anything about case life ? Or how much of an improvement you're looking for.
 
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milboltnut said:
well the die touches the shell holder then thread the die a quarter turn past that, that's cam over.

So I guess at this point you don't know anything about case life ?
Click to expand...
I don't. I'm keeping track of how many times the brass is getting reused. I'm being careful not to mix the brass. My 308 just got reloaded for the fourth time. I'm still within spec for case length. No signs that I can tell showing fatigue. Interesting thing about the 308, it doesn't not feel like it is getting resized much. It goes through the die very easily.

Case life is definitely my next hurdle.
 
peterk123 said:
I don't. I'm keeping track of how many times the brass is getting reused. I'm being careful not to mix the brass. My 308 just got reloaded for the fourth time. I'm still within spec for case length. No signs that I can tell showing fatigue. Interesting thing about the 308, it doesn't not feel like it is getting resized much. It goes through the die very easily.

Case life is definitely my next hurdle.
Click to expand...
sounds like your loads aren't that hot. I'm gonna say you don't have a case gauge that measures headspace. You can measure case head diameter with your calipers, and compare it the chamber (SAAMI) case dimensions. Also you can strip your bolt to see, after you trim the case, how easy it chambers after you fire it.
 
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milboltnut said:
well the die touches the shell holder then thread the die a quarter turn past that, that's cam over.

So I guess at this point you don't know anything about case life ? Or how much of an improvement you're looking for.
Click to expand...
For some presses you don't want it to cam over but the idea is correct - the frame will flex under the load of sizing so an 1/8-1/4 turn after the die hits the shell plate will usually be enough.

If you will be shooting the same ammo through the same bolt action then you set your sizing die to just knock the shoulder back a few thousandths so the bolt closes with little or noresistance (at least from the case)
This will extend the life of the brass and should increase accuracy since the round fill the chamber sitting in the same place very time

Edit: missing words - I hate android
 
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pastera said:
For some presses you don't want it to cam over but the idea is correct - the frame will flex under the load of sizing so an 1/8-1/4 turn after the die hits the shell plate will usually be enough.

If you will be shooting the same ammo through the same bolt action then you set your sizing die to just knock the shoulder back a few thousandths so the bolt closes with resistance (at least from the case)
This will extend the life of the brass and should increase accuracy since the round fill the chamber sitting in the same place very time
Click to expand...
I always cam over my Rock Chucker to insure I get consistent sizing.

Early in the game I was told it was correct, cam over. Now I use Redding competition shell holders and body die/ Lee neck collet die, (could use a fuller gauge between the dies base and shell holder). Stripped bolt at .006 shoulder setback, faster and easier than partial full length sizing. Never liked to feel the case in.... I like the shoulder set back to be the same and measure it to be sure, with the OAL with bullets compared to he same length at the base to ogive. Seat bullet .010 with a shoulder .006, bullet .004 off the lands.
 
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peterk123 said:
At this point I have loaded about 800 rounds of 223, 308 and 6.5cm. Still a rookie when it comes to rifle rounds but I'm starting to understand what works.

I clean my brass in a tumbler. From there I deprime the brass. I've recently started to clean primer pockets. Mostly because the ginex primers are tight. But I'm finding it is still worth doing. I then size and primer the brass. I use a little Lee lube on my fingers for coating the brass. I make sure the primer is fully seated on a flat surface, then wipe off any lube. Next I check for case length on a sample of brass. I've yet to resize them. I have sets of the Lee case trimmers for when it's time. I then use a Lee powder drop to get within .6 or so grains of my desired charge. Then the redding beam scale is used to get to the final weight. Last, I seat a bullet.

I swapped to a single stage press for my rifle rounds. I feel I just have better control. I am not in a rush. I'm not doing high volume runs.

What else should I be doing? I'm not going for Precision accuracy. But I am shooting for 1 moa or slightly better on a consistent basis.

Thanks. Pete
Click to expand...
Hey Pete.

I highly recommend @EddieCoyle 's precision rifle reloading class if he's still running them. I've been reloading for 12+ years and took his class a couple years ago when I was thinking about getting into precision rifle reloading. There are so many factors to consider when striving to repeatedly reload reliable cartridges. I ended up not getting into precision rifle due to time constraints, but I learned a ton in his class and find it's made me a better reloader having taken it.

Good luck.

Mark
 
peterk123 said:
Thanks. Quite helpful.
Click to expand...
As brass is work hardened, from sizing and firing, annealing softens to ease the process of forming and prevents failure. And as you pull the case out of the die it causes it to "grow" per say or stretch out (the shoulder gets pulled forward). When full length sizIng I hold the case in the die for a bit, giving it a chance to "form". Annealing helps forming alot in the shoulder area especially. The case head isn't part of annealing. Keep your eye on the head when reaching max loads or when using fast burning powders too effects even lower charged loads.
 
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peterk123 said:
What else should I be doing? I'm not going for Precision accuracy. But I am shooting for 1 moa or slightly better on a consistent basis.

Thanks. Pete
Click to expand...
What you describe as your process should get you to sub moa. I used a process pretty identical to this for decades and a got inch type groups with hunting rifles

I tried neck sizing and bumping back shoulder but they added complexity without obvious gains. Maybe it was because I was using mostly hunting rifles but my Varmint heavy barrel rifles (.222 and 22-250) didn’t benefit either

I changed things up 5-7 years ago when I started shooting long range (1000 yards) I had a new Rem 700 varmint barrel rifle in 308 that was most accurate factory rife I have owned. It shot 3/4 moa or less out to 300 yards with Hornady match ammo. Shortly after I bought a 6.5 CM that would shoot 1/2 moa or less , again with Hornady match ammo. Now I wanted to make ammo as good as the Hornady match ammo. I was able to do this

I played with a lot of things, what made the difference for me was I spray lube the brass in a tub with a lanolin / 99% isopropyl alcohol solution. This gets some lube inside the neck for resizing ( pulling neck over ball when coming out of sizing die): this then requires another trip into tumbler to clean again. I tumble with lizard bedding and cap of car wax. This added two steps to case prep but not a lot of my time.

I also changed over to Hornady match dies for 308 , 6.5 and .223. Everything else stayed with my RCBS dies

I also got rid of RCBS case trimmer. I went with LE Wilson set up, very consistent results much better than I got with RCBS. Paired with Frankfort Arsenal case prep station to inside outside bevel case mouth and clean primer pocket. I get good results, but labor intensive trimming process. There should be a easier way but this works and I do all rifle brass prep over the winter
 
Last edited:
milboltnut said:
well the die touches the shell holder then thread the die a quarter turn past that, that's cam over.

So I guess at this point you don't know anything about case life ? Or how much of an improvement you're looking for.
Click to expand...
This is not exactly the best method with out knowing what press you have.
OP follow press and die directions
 
peterk123 said:
I don't. I'm keeping track of how many times the brass is getting reused. I'm being careful not to mix the brass. My 308 just got reloaded for the fourth time. I'm still within spec for case length. No signs that I can tell showing fatigue. Interesting thing about the 308, it doesn't not feel like it is getting resized much. It goes through the die very easily.

Case life is definitely my next hurdle.
Click to expand...
Are you shooting the 308 in the same gun ?
If so you may not feel much, seems your die is set to just enough for your chamber
With out annealing you may start to see neck splitting after 4-5 reloads.
If tour using the brass in one gun and your die is set to resize it back to just enough brass will last a good while.

My brass in my fresh new 30-06 barreled M1 feels “undersized “ when I run it through the die vs my 1942 barreled M1 that is a “field grade gauge” pass feels like a square peg into a round hole
 
gerrycaruso said:
Do you anneal? If you want the brass to last as long as possible, you probably want to get into that. I have so much 223, 308 and 30/06 brass that I just load it once and throw it away.
Click to expand...
Dont throw it away , pass it along to one of us scrounges. I can repurpose most brass for other things.
 
1729419908166.png You should have one of these for every bottle neck rifle caliber that you reload. It will save you a lot of heartaches and headaches.

1729420120861.png This is the trim die for use with the Dillon motorized trimmer. It full length sizes the case and sets the shoulder to the proper dimension, allowing the case to be trimmed to the proper "Trim To" length after full length resizing/decapping when the decapping pin pulls the neck slightly forward when being retracted from the case.

Checking primer depth just by using a flat surface is NOT the way to do it. Sure it will indicate a "high primer" bit it will not tell you whether the primer is fully seated in the primer pocket.

You should be able to "feel" the primer seat in the casing and most (if not all) rifle and pistol primers seat "BELOW" flush on the case head and that should be readily visible on your primed cases. When you run your finger tip across the case head, the "BELOW FLUSH" primer should be easily felt.
When/if you start having failures to fire, it will most likely be because the anvil of the primer is not against the bottom of the primer pocket.
 
mac1911 said:
This is not exactly the best method with out knowing what press you have.
OP follow press and die directions
Click to expand...
I wasn't telling him that's the best method , he didn't know what it was and I told him, and told him how I do it. Press doesn't make a difference if it cams over if they cam over, some have stops. I cam my RC over slightly to just to know it's consistent. As far as die instructions, they are not very helpful at all for case life.
 
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Most people oversize their brass when full length sizing. This will really deteriorate your brass life. If you don’t have already I’d recommend a set of Hornady Bump guage and comparators. They are pretty inexpensive and will let you measure your brass more accurately.

When brass only goes through one rifle I prefer 3 thousandths of headspace. This gives we a little wiggle room if one comes out long. Brass always gets same exact treatment every loading for me.
 
peterk123 said:
At this point I have loaded about 800 rounds of 223, 308 and 6.5cm. Still a rookie when it comes to rifle rounds but I'm starting to understand what works.

I clean my brass in a tumbler. From there I deprime the brass. I've recently started to clean primer pockets. Mostly because the ginex primers are tight. But I'm finding it is still worth doing. I then size and primer the brass. I use a little Lee lube on my fingers for coating the brass. I make sure the primer is fully seated on a flat surface, then wipe off any lube. Next I check for case length on a sample of brass. I've yet to resize them. I have sets of the Lee case trimmers for when it's time. I then use a Lee powder drop to get within .6 or so grains of my desired charge. Then the redding beam scale is used to get to the final weight. Last, I seat a bullet.

I swapped to a single stage press for my rifle rounds. I feel I just have better control. I am not in a rush. I'm not doing high volume runs.

What else should I be doing? I'm not going for Precision accuracy. But I am shooting for 1 moa or slightly better on a consistent basis.

Thanks. Pete
Click to expand...
Before you go chasing your tail
How capable are your rifles and you skills to be able to shoot MOA consistently?
What are the rifles you shoot capable of with say Gold Medal Match ammo?

Im passed the consistent days

For the most part 223 can hit moa or better with very little effort other than good bullets and a charge of powder it likes

My Hornady 55g fmj bulk bullet and almost every “223” powder is moa capable in my run of the mill AR - what I have found with 223 is it likes to go fast . Not exactly max powder charges but higher velocities.

308 and 30-06 I can get loads that are 1 moa or better capable , out of my 1903a3 with new barrel and a crappy reproduction period scope.

I cant always deliver -

I think many people chase the reload vs chasing skills and the platform. You can spend hours just playing with piwder charges and seating depth.

Old timer once told me the best shooters shoot , the rest do load development, lol.

I have learned to load to the platform and end result , no sense wasting time doing all sorts of extra steps to get 1/2 moa capable ammo thats going to run through a 75 year old M1
308 I like to trim my case necks to the same length , uniform primer pockets and keep 200 of the same headstamp from the same lot #
Last several years im only loading for semi auto for service rifle : 3 moa 10 ring
So im not loading to any high precision any more . Sold the only 308 bolt gun I had that was not going to be a sub MOA rifle ever.
I also shoot a lot more 22lr than center fire now.

100-200 yards no wind on a good day with good ammo im circling 1 moa
 
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milboltnut said:
I wasn't telling him that's the best method , he didn't know what it was and I told him, and told him how I do it. Press doesn't make a difference if it cams over if they cam over, some have stops. I cam my RC over slightly to just to know it's consistent. As far as die instructions, they are not very helpful at all for case life.
Click to expand...
Right , im just referring to the “cam” over not all presses are capable and will be damaged or break if the press and die are not set up correctly
 
mac1911 said:
Before you go chasing your tail
How capable are your rifles and you skills to be able to shoot MOA consistently?
What are the rifles you shoot capable of with say Gold Medal Match ammo?

Im passed the consistent days

For the most part 223 can hit moa or better with very little effort other than good bullets and a charge of powder it likes

My Hornady 55g fmj bulk bullet and almost every “223” powder is moa capable in my run of the mill AR - what I have found with 223 is it likes to go fast . Not exactly max powder charges but higher velocities.

308 and 30-06 I can get loads that are 1 moa or better capable , out of my 1903a3 with new barrel and a crappy reproduction period scope.

I cant always deliver -

I think many people chase the reload vs chasing skills and the platform. You can spend hours just playing with piwder charges and seating depth.

Old timer once told me the best shooters shoot , the rest do load development, lol.

I have learned to load to the platform and end result , no sense wasting time doing all sorts of extra steps to get 1/2 moa capable ammo thats going to run through a 75 year old M1
308 I like to trim my case necks to the same length , uniform primer pockets and keep 200 of the same headstamp from the same lot #
Last several years im only loading for semi auto for service rifle : 3 moa 10 ring
So im not loading to any high precision any more . Sold the only 308 bolt gun I had that was not going to be a sub MOA rifle ever.
I also shoot a lot more 22lr than center fire now.

100-200 yards no wind on a good day with good ammo im circling 1 moa
Click to expand...
Thank you. I guess that is the info I was looking for. Basically what I'm doing is probably fine. Just go shoot.
 
northny said:
What you describe as your process should get you to sub moa. I used a process pretty identical to this for decades and a got inch type groups with hunting rifles

I tried neck sizing and bumping back shoulder but they added complexity without obvious gains. Maybe it was because I was using mostly hunting rifles but my Varmint heavy barrel rifles (.222 and 22-250) didn’t benefit either

I changed things up 5-7 years ago when I started shooting long range (1000 yards) I had a new Rem 700 varmint barrel rifle in 308 that was most accurate factory rife I have owned. It shot 3/4 moa or less out to 300 yards with Hornady match ammo. Shortly after I bought a 6.5 CM that would shoot 1/2 moa or less , again with Hornady match ammo. Now I wanted to make ammo as good as the Hornady match ammo. I was able to do this

I played with a lot of things, what made the difference for me was I spray lube the brass in a tub with a lanolin / 99% isopropyl alcohol solution. This gets some lube inside the neck for resizing ( pulling neck over ball when coming out of sizing die): this then requires another trip into tumbler to clean again. I tumble with lizard bedding and cap of car wax. This added two steps to case prep but not a lot of my time.

I also changed over to Hornady match dies for 308 , 6.5 and .223. Everything else stayed with my RCBS dies

I also got rid of RCBS case trimmer. I went with LE Wilson set up, very consistent results much better than I got with RCBS. Paired with Frankfort Arsenal case prep station to inside outside bevel case mouth and clean primer pocket. I get good results, but labor intensive trimming process. There should be a easier way but this works and I do all rifle brass prep over the winter
Click to expand...
Thank you.
 
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