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Reloading Rant

S

Steve Marshall

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Rather than respond to any particular thread, I wonder at the thought process of many. Resolving stupid simple problems are too difficult, so, we post. Can no one read anymore? Is it a 15 minute of fame kid of thing? Or is it the facebookish syndrome? How in the world did the oldtime reloaders survive their experiments with dual powder loads, front end ignition and forming new cases from old? Were they that much more clever? With all the technological information at our grasp via internet why in the world are there so many silly questions? I'd guess that 90% of the answers sought are readily available and tend to be the basics.

Then of course we have the "helpful" posters. You know, those all-knowing seers who recommend ladder series with .1 tenth grain spreads. Or those who profess that .001" seating depth changes to find the "sweet spot". Or .0005" shoulder setback increments. Or the fractional MOA shooters at XXX yards "all day long if I do my part".

Whatever happened to common sense and comprehension?
 
how true. your post reminded me of a guy at my club in the 70's. he'd walk to the high power range with a rifle, tire, rope, and his "wild cat" loads. we all use to follow him down to the range like the pied piper to see what he was up to. he'd tie the rifle to the tire, the tire to the bench, and a lanyard to the trigger. we'd take cover and kaboom. experimental load testing! miss those old days, much fun.
 
At one point the old timers could go to the library.
Not to long ago I went to the library and found several good books on reloading and wild cat cartridges.
Also had all the cartridges of the world books and such....that was 2005-2008. Not sure if they still have these in the smaller library. I had to order them through the network and they came from Boston.

Sometimes people post as a way to think out load. Also often sometimes simple is just right in your face and you can't see it.

Also for the younger folks mechanical reasoning and skills are not as well taught these days.
Most people I know under 30 have parents that do not have any hand/mechanical skilled jobs.

It's all good....help out when you can and as my dad always said "there is no,such thing as a stupid question". Stupid questions can keep stupid actions to a minimum.
 
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I won't even post on other forums any more, due to all the grief I get with my wildcats, or being called a liar about my Velocities.


Dean
 
mac1911 said:
Sometimes people post as a way to think out load. Also often sometimes simple is just right in your face and you can't see it.


It's all good....help out when you can and as my dad always said "there is no,such thing as a stupid question". Stupid questions can keep stupid actions to a minimum.
Click to expand...

Exactly.

And it also adds to the common stock of knowledge - sometimes what seems like a stupid question makes people hesitant to ask, or hesitant to get into reloading - when someone else asks the question, they kind of take one for the team. I probably wouldn't have gotten into reloading if I hadn't been reading the Reloading forum here and had a lot of my questions and misunderstandings cleared up without even asking the questions.

There's no such thing as useless knowledge.
 
My "Dean" version is that I kinda collect reloading manuals. At last count there was over 125 different manuals. GREAT throne reading material. If you can't learn something reading a reloading manual, you are either The Great Kahuna in the Sky or you're a dullard.
 
Before I post I type in keywords in the search box and I spend no more than 10 minutes and find what I am looking for. Duplicate threads make things harder, however I dislike the people who call "DUPE, DUPE, Dupety-DUPE" more than those who post before searching.
 
Steve Marshall said:
Rather than respond to any particular thread, I wonder at the thought process of many. Resolving stupid simple problems are too difficult, so, we post. Can no one read anymore? Is it a 15 minute of fame kid of thing? Or is it the facebookish syndrome? How in the world did the oldtime reloaders survive their experiments with dual powder loads, front end ignition and forming new cases from old? Were they that much more clever? With all the technological information at our grasp via internet why in the world are there so many silly questions? I'd guess that 90% of the answers sought are readily available and tend to be the basics.

Then of course we have the "helpful" posters. You know, those all-knowing seers who recommend ladder series with .1 tenth grain spreads. Or those who profess that .001" seating depth changes to find the "sweet spot". Or .0005" shoulder setback increments. Or the fractional MOA shooters at XXX yards "all day long if I do my part".

Whatever happened to common sense and comprehension?
Click to expand...

So stop reading it. What do you expect on this site? It's not a reloading only forum. Although, judging by your second paragraph, you wouldn't like it at one of those either.
 
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I love when people say it is Hogdons max, here is a good example from there website.
Lets take a 308 with a Sierra 168gr bullet, there are 15 different loads with various powders.
It shows IMR4895 with 45.4 grains of it, with a max pressure of 58000 psi,
Yet then it shows 43.3 of IMR 8205 XBR for a max pressure of 61500 psi.
So which is max 58000 or 61500, they answer is neither a 308 cases max is 62000 psi.
So essentially you could add some of the IMR4895 to go from 58000 to 61500 psi and still not be at max pressure.

Dean
 
MConnelly2 said:
Exactly.

And it also adds to the common stock of knowledge - sometimes what seems like a stupid question makes people hesitant to ask, or hesitant to get into reloading - when someone else asks the question, they kind of take one for the team. I probably wouldn't have gotten into reloading if I hadn't been reading the Reloading forum here and had a lot of my questions and misunderstandings cleared up without even asking the questions.

There's no such thing as useless knowledge.
Click to expand...

Agreed.
 
I for one would never have got into realoading if it wasn't for the guys on this forum. I have no history of firearms or reloading. I grew up in Britain so no firearms ancestry to call upon. I researched, purchased books, watch you tube but there where still "stupid" questions I had to ask, things that books and you tube expected you to know. With the help of this forum and the wonderful knowledgeable guys on the reloading thread my stupid question and fears where answered.

There are no stupid questions, only stupid answers...

thanks to all who helped me in my reloading quest, to the OP, with all your wisdom, please pass it on to the less fortunate newbies before its lost forever. Remember Greek Fire, no that's because someone kept the info to themselves.

harry
 
HiCap said:
Before I post I type in keywords in the search box and I spend no more than 10 minutes and find what I am looking for. Duplicate threads make things harder, however I dislike the people who call "DUPE, DUPE, Dupety-DUPE" more than those who post before searching.
Click to expand...

I for one think the search feature here on nes sucks... I have come to the conclusion I just don't know how to use it. I use the advance search to find post I know already are out there....but seldom do I find what I'm looking for on a general search.
 
mac1911 said:
I for one think the search feature here on nes sucks... I have come to the conclusion I just don't know how to use it. I use the advance search to find post I know already are out there....but seldom do I find what I'm looking for on a general search.
Click to expand...

Use Google:
Site:northeastshooters.com search-term
 
Many possible causes for this:

Lazy posters that want to be spoon fed every possible scrap of knowledge.

People that are afraid of their own shadows or that have been so scared by (mostly made up) reloading horror stories that they won't t do anything without getting reassurance first.

Over-enthusiastic newbies that seek attention.

Dumb-asses that don't think shit through.

Dean Crawford said:
So essentially you could add some of the IMR4895 to go from 58000 to 61500 psi and still not be at max pressure.
Click to expand...

The trick there is guessing how much you can add. Play that game with Lil' Gun and I'll talk to you when you get out of surgery.
 
OP described every internet forum past, present and future.

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/019/304/old.jpg

And here I was opening the link thinking someone had finally reached the breaking point having to de-crimp military primer pockets, or something.

By day I am a Principal level IT Engineer... Some of the technical questions I receive from the junior staff can often be solved by a google search, and it's usually one of the first results. It's frustrating, but whatever, it's part of my job. On a free, public forum, you can just click on that little 'x' in the upper left hand corner :)
 
Steve Marshall said:
Rather than respond to any particular thread, I wonder at the thought process of many. Resolving stupid simple problems are too difficult, so, we post. Can no one read anymore? Is it a 15 minute of fame kid of thing? Or is it the facebookish syndrome? How in the world did the oldtime reloaders survive their experiments with dual powder loads, front end ignition and forming new cases from old? Were they that much more clever? With all the technological information at our grasp via internet why in the world are there so many silly questions? I'd guess that 90% of the answers sought are readily available and tend to be the basics.
Click to expand...

Do you want people seeking knowledge or not? I have guys I would call on the phone first for advice about certain loads, etc... does that make me lazy? I've given plenty of other data to people so they can hit the ground running, too.

Most reloading books contain a lot of worthless, or excessively cautious information. A lot of the stuff that is passed from one reloader to another cannot be printed in a book. It's one of those "things". I learned how to reload by hanging out with a guy who made his own
bullets, etc. He probably learned it from his dad, friends, etc. Knowledge was passed on.

We should be lucky people are getting into it at all these days. 90% I run into are the limpwrist types that keep braying about blowing themselves up.

My "Dean" version is that I kinda collect reloading manuals. At last count there was over 125 different manuals. GREAT throne reading material. If you can't learn something reading a reloading manual, you are either The Great Kahuna in the Sky or you're a dullard.
Click to expand...


IMHO reloading manuals are great reference material but they don't actually teach you how to actually do anything. Most people will die from boredom or we'll get these guys on here that are shitting their pants by going .1 over on a pistol load max listed in a manual. I've met people that only learned from manuals. They're usually kinda scary/self limiting.

-Mike
 
Dean Crawford said:
I love when people say it is Hogdons max, here is a good example from there website.
Lets take a 308 with a Sierra 168gr bullet, there are 15 different loads with various powders.
It shows IMR4895 with 45.4 grains of it, with a max pressure of 58000 psi,
Yet then it shows 43.3 of IMR 8205 XBR for a max pressure of 61500 psi.
So which is max 58000 or 61500, they answer is neither a 308 cases max is 62000 psi.
So essentially you could add some of the IMR4895 to go from 58000 to 61500 psi and still not be at max pressure.

Dean
Click to expand...

There might be a few reasons for it, and this is the stuff that doesn't make it into reloading manuals "because liability".

It would be fun to read testing notes, ala Clark Magnuson- "A higher load works, but the SD is all over the place" or "You have to be careful exceeding max, because eventually if the temp is wrong and you're a few tenths over max the pressure will take off like at trampoline on this one". "This load works, didn't blow up gun, but the recoil is horrendous" [rofl]

-Mike
 
Funny thing. I learned how to reload 50 years ago with a reloading manual. True, centerfire was only about 40. And right after that you have people fouling their shorts over .1 grain. Pretty much what I was talking about.

There ought to be a thank button here. Both Dean and EC made excellent posts. Of course that's my perspective only. Take it for what it's worth. After all, I learned how to reload out of a manual.
 
Steve Marshall said:
Funny thing. I learned how to reload 50 years ago with a reloading manual. True, centerfire was only about 40. And right after that you have people fouling their shorts over .1 grain. Pretty much what I was talking about.

There ought to be a thank button here. Both Dean and EC made excellent posts. Of course that's my perspective only. Take it for what it's worth. After all, I learned how to reload out of a manual.
Click to expand...

If it's the only way it's better than nothing, but I can say that if all I had was a manual at my disposal I would have never started reloading. I bought my first manual right around the time I started hanging out with an older friend of mine that had been reloading for many years.... when it came to learning the ropes though it was ultimately numerous nights of hanging out with him in his basement, smoking cigars, drinking coffee, casting bullets and loading things like .45s and .357s on his press.

-Mike
 
I am sure I have asked many a stupid question here. But this site, especially the reloading forum, has taught me so much. i will strive to stop asking stupid questions going forward but I am starting to reload a new caliber so no promises.
 
I learned how to reload hanging with dad and club friends
1. we pulled bullets out of the berm after breakfast 2. Dad and friends would smelt and cast on the tail gate with the colman stove and old pot.... 3. I would load 38spl on the lee classic loader or what we called the WhackOround
I got to shoot 1 in 5 loaded.....ohh the joy.[grin]

Although 20 pus years later after dropping out of shooting then coming back ....when I returned my dad all but forgot most of what he learned the gear and books where long gone and I hsd to come here and post question and Im sure I have posted some dumb shit.
 
I run into guys who are, "reloading", most of them who don't know most basic fundamentals, especially rifle, most recent, no idea what shoulder adjustment was, the other didn't know you lubed rifle cases. This is truly scary, I encourage questions, but if you live within an 8 hour drive of Massreloading.com classes and can't do a simple search of reloading classes or are just too lazy to make the commitment, then I won't bother responding to stupid/lazy questions. I do refer everyone I talk to about the classes and that they should take them.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk
 
The concept of loading any cartridge is the same with only small variables. I had no mentor yet have successfully loaded many hundreds of thousands with no serious problems. And where do these mentors come from here on the net? Is it the guy that offers sage advise yet isn't aware of lube? How about the guy that has trouble seating primers in crimped brass? Or perhaps the guy who realizes something is wrong and wants to weigh loaded cases to find the one that might have not been charged? One?

I've no grief when someone asks about the suitability of a new powder. Or clarification from the brain trust on bearing length of a bullet and what the thought might be on pressures. Or even the suitability of a bullet for hunting. But I'll wager, here and on another forum I go to, there's easily several dozen
queries a year that hurt my neck from the head shaking. The internet can be a great source of information. It's also a home for stupid.
 
Steve Marshall said:
The concept of loading any cartridge is the same with only small variables. I had no mentor yet have successfully loaded many hundreds of thousands with no serious problems. And where do these mentors come from here on the net? Is it the guy that offers sage advise yet isn't aware of lube? How about the guy that has trouble seating primers in crimped brass? Or perhaps the guy who realizes something is wrong and wants to weigh loaded cases to find the one that might have not been charged? One?

I've no grief when someone asks about the suitability of a new powder. Or clarification from the brain trust on bearing length of a bullet and what the thought might be on pressures. Or even the suitability of a bullet for hunting. But I'll wager, here and on another forum I go to, there's easily several dozen
queries a year that hurt my neck from the head shaking. The internet can be a great source of information. It's also a home for stupid.
Click to expand...

What's your point?
 
ive been reloading for 30 years, sometimes i still run up on something odd, nothing i cant figure out mind you but, why not ask? lots of knowledge here. no harm in starting a conversation. with the help of the people on this board even an idiot without critical thinking skills could prolly reload just fine.
 
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marleythefish said:
ive been reloading for 30 years, sometimes i still run up on something odd, nothing i cant figure out mind you but, why not ask? lots of knowledge here. no harm in starting a conversation. with the help of the people on this board even an idiot without critical thinking skills could prolly reload just fine. so you, Mr superior think the posts here are stupid and posted by idiots,,,,,,,,move along a s s ho l e. people like you that think youre so elite piss me off. maybe you should **** off and let us get back to helping each other.
Click to expand...
Apparently spelling, capitalization, and punctuation are among the things you can't figure out.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
 

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