Reloading HELP!! 45 ACP

[carter]

Ok, so I've been shooting for a while now, and getting pretty good at it.

I wanted to start reloading. Just bought a single stage Rock Chucker kit, scale, powder measure, dies, you name it.

I'm a little unsure on the lead, but a buddy mentioned to get 185 grain, (light yes, but since this was just trial, I figured why not.) And I matched that up with "TightGroup" powder. Perfect match.

Here's my problem.

When I press in the lead, I have no idea how far to press it in.... So I just do it so it looks right. And it DOES look right, just not like your ordinary 230 grain FMJ.

It is much shorter.

This creates problems with feeding from the magazine. It really doesn't.

I did get a few rounds to fire, but not consistently, and when I did, it was usually chambering it manually.

Then at the range... When I finally fired a round made by yours truly... it put a nice "Key Hole" into the paper... so it's not firing straight either.

Ugh.

Here's what I had:

Winchester Brass (used once)
TightGroup Powder (5 grams)
185 grain generic lead (.452)
CCI Primers


The book says to match it up (your original bullet, with what your making with regards to height, etc, etc...) but since I'm shooting a 230 FMJ, and building a 185, I can't do that.


I can get some pictures up later, but is anything jumping out as to what I'm drastically doing wrong?

 

[RKG]

Two steps you may have overlooked.

First, having selected your slug, look up in a reloading manual what the recommended OAL for a round with that slug is. It should be closed to the nominal OAL for .45 ACP.

Second, adjust your seater/crimper. Do this as follows:

Back the die way up (so that the crimp ring doesn't begin to do its work). Back the seater plug way up as well.

Now, with a slug started by hand, run the ram up to the top. Screw the seater plug down until it comes into contact with the tip of the slug. Drop the ram and screw in the seater plug a small amount, thus seating the slug without crimping.

Remove the round and guage its overall length.

Repeat these steps in very small increments until you have the proper OAL.

Now back the seater plug way up and adjust the die body down until you get the proper amount of crimp. With the ram still up, drop the seater plug until it contacts the tip of the slug and lock it down.

Finally, take a resized and belled but UNPRIMED case and seat and crimp another slug. This dummy will serve as a guide to return to this setting for this slug in the future.

 

[Adam_MA]

Can I ask what book you have that told you to "match it up"? I haven't seen a reloading manual yet that hasn't had very specific COL specifications for you to follow. This will all depend on bullet weight, bullet shape, and bullet style.
I would suggest you pick up a new reloading manual, like the Lyman #48, and follow the directions.

Adam

 

[GTOShootr]

Get yourself a dial caliper so you know to what length and crimp you are loading to. The book will have some starting point for some overall length (OAL) and crimp but that OAL will change with your bullet choice, like the others said.

You should really start loading with round nose bullets. Firstly, because you can copy factory specs as a learning experience. Secondly, because 230gr ball ammo is most likely to work in your gun. Not every gun likes SWCs.

They load really good LSWC over at Northeast Trading in Attleboro. Maybe they will let you in on their OAL and crimp for them if you ask. Ted and Dennis helped me out when I started reloading. (maybe TYPE01313 can help you with that since you are in NH)

Also, I hope you are loading 5 "grains" and not "grams". Grams are for crack dealers, grains are for shooters.

 

[C-pher]

I too am worried about you just "matching them up." That can cause all kinds of pressure problems when you put them in your firearm.

Like they said above, make sure that you get a good book, and follow the directions.

We're not trying to be mean or anything. We just don't want to see anyone hurt.

 

[GTOShootr]

When you said some are not not firing, is that even when chambered? If so, that could be primers not fully seated.

I actually bought some 185 gr .45 LSWC Saturday. I'll load some up tonight and share data and pics of what they should look like.

 

[carter]

Thanks guys...

Everything is at home. It's the book that came with the Rock Chucker, maybe I understood it wrong... I'll get the quote tonight... Anyhow, appreciate the help. And C-pher, no one has been mean... So no problem there. I'm asking because I know something is wrong, and have about 200 rounds that will now be scrapped.

I'll get some photos up tonight to help explain what's going on, and where/what is going wrong

TIA


Carter

 

[C-pher]

Thanks guys...

Everything is at home. It's the book that came with the Rock Chucker, maybe I understood it wrong... I'll get the quote tonight... Anyhow, appreciate the help. And C-pher, no one has been mean... So no problem there. I'm asking because I know something is wrong, and have about 200 rounds that will now be scrapped.

I'll get some photos up tonight to help explain what's going on, and where/what is going wrong

TIA


Carter

No problem. Some people take constructive criticism as being mean. Just didn't want to you think that.

And know, you don't have to scrap them. Pick up a bullet puller if you don't already have one. You can take them apart and reuse the brass, powder, and heads. You just have to be careful getting the primer out...unless you make sure that you don't try to deprime them. And just start over with the brass, as they will already be primed.

 

[Adam_MA]

One tip on depriming live primed cases. FIRS AND FOREMOST make sure you are wearing safety goggles. Second, lower the press arm slowly, and with steady even pressure. It takes impact to set off the priming compound, so just go slow.

Adam

 

[tele_mark]

One tip on depriming live primed cases. FIRS AND FOREMOST make sure you are wearing safety goggles. Second, lower the press arm slowly, and with steady even pressure. It takes impact to set off the priming compound, so just go slow.

Adam

On my first attempt, I had about 5 rounds I needed to scrap. After dis-assembling them with the bullet puller, I put on my ear protectors, carefully manually chambered the rounds in my P99, maneuvering the ejector manually around the case, and fired 'em like that. Was that incorrect? I had no idea you could remove a live primer (after emptying the primer tray and feed!).

 

[Adam_MA]

Mark,
The way you did it was an acceptable way to kill the primers. Probably a safer way than with your press, but both do work.

Adam

 

[carter]

Ok.. here is all I have

SPEER Reloading Manual Rifle and Pistol

On page 78, talks about setting up your seating stem, blah blah,

"repeat until you feel the bullet start to seat. Lower the ram and compare the cartridge length with a factory round or measure it with a caliper."

Again, it all makes sense, but this is ONLY for SPEER type bullets, and that is all, so any C.O.L. numbers here really don't match up for me. So I read on:


"Sometimes, a factory cartridge or published loading length is not available. A good way to determine proper seating depth for your rifle is to make a dummy round with the bullet you plan to use."

So how do you know it works? That dummy round you just made? Well, it goes on to say, chamber it, and if there is resistance, then keep pushing the bullet further in, until you can close your action with only slight effort. Blah blah blah... more stuff.... etc.

So... This is what I'm working with.

 

[GTOShootr]

Use caution with that book since it lists only Speer bullet loads. Those are full metal jacket bullets and produce different velocites than lead. You need less powder with lead.

I just made up some .45s with a 185grn lead SWC (Roger's Best Brand). I seated them with just a bit of the bullet shoulder above the top of the case and came out with an OAL of 1.26". It sounds long to me but seating any shorter would leave a sharp edge where the case meets the bullet, and I don't like that for feeding. They just barely fit in my Wilson 1911 mags but should work fine. I loaded some with Titegroup and I'll let you know how they chrono out of my gun.

Your bullet brand my have different dimensions and your gun will shoot differently.

 

[PistolPete]

I would recommend against shooting lead. The only advantage of it is the cost and the negatives outweigh the cost.

As for depriming live primers. I never do that. I just use a pair of plyers and squeeze the open part of the case closed and throw them away. Trying to save the components and save a few pennies isn't worth it. Just get rid of it and start over.

 

[carter]

Here's what I'm gathering... My OAL on my 185 grain is much shorter then the standard 230 grain FMJ that I shoot. But the "shoulder" is too high, and therefore not feeding into the barrel correctly. I need to push them down, so these can probably be saved by putting them through the press one last time, but at the right height.

I'm not impressed with the lead, it was just what the guy grabbed and gave to me when I asked for 185 grain. I'll have to find a better supplier, as shipping costs on this stuff puts buying it online almost out of my realm.


For the record, these are M&P Cast Bullets. I think I'll look for the FMJ's next go around.

 

[GTOShootr]

I shoot lead in the .45 because I don't shoot enough of it to order jacketed bullets like I do with 9mm and .40. I like the big holes SWCs leave in the A-zone too.

I would have thrown the rounds in the dud box rather than pulling them. Time is money, but I understand that when loading on a single stage and not having a ton of brass, things are different.

You may be right that your gun just isn't set up to feed 185 SWCs due to the OAL they come out to. What kind of pistol is it?

 

[carter]

I'm shooting a Kimber Custom II

I liked the idea of reloading, not as a way to save money, but to customize the ammo I was shooting.

I set up the ammo with 3 different ranges of powder in them, so I could start expirementing. With Tightgroup, the max load on 185 grain lead is 5.5 So I made a box of 4.7, 5.0, and 5.3 to see which one I liked the best, etc etc.

But I see I was premature, and should have found a bullet that worked best for me and my gun first.

 

[GTOShootr]

Nice! A gunsmith could make the Kimber feed anything by working the feed ramp, but a round nose bullet is an easy route.

You did it right by making loads of varying charges and working up towards the max listed. Down the road, a chronograph will be nice to get to see how they perform.

 

[Adam_MA]

I would recommend against shooting lead. The only advantage of it is the cost and the negatives outweigh the cost.

Hmmm that's an interesting statement. What are the negatives that would outweigh the cost?

Adam

 

[GTOShootr]

I don't know about outweighing the cost. Everyone's needs vary. I know it is dirtier and the lube is smokey in some brands. We do have a friend that has had to take a break from shooting this winter due to lead poisoning. Also, you can't shoot it in a stock Glock barrel. Compensated guns don't like lead either.

These negatives show themselves most shooting indoors. Also, shooting IPSC, where you may encounter an array of targets where you fire 8 shots or more in a couple seconds from one position, creates quite a smoke screen around your head that can't be healthy (not that it isn't fun).

I still like them in .45 for their local availablility if nothing else.

 

[Adam_MA]

I like them because of their price of course, and a bonus is of course that lead is all they allow on the indoor range of my club.

Adam

 

[C-pher]

Carter, there are a lot of companies that make lead heads that have shipping included in the price. And it's still cheaper than getting them in the store.

As for only shooting copper. I can't, most of my shooting is for Cowboy action, and we can ONLY shoot lead. So for me, I only shoot copper in my Glock. Everything else, I shoot lead. And I don't have a lot of problems with it, and I've never had a huge problem with barrel leading...at least nothing that was hard to take care of.

But again, that's me. I really only reload .45, .44 and .38/357.


But like Adam, I would like to know those disadvantages.

 

[curlymaple42]

Carter, check out (edited to remove link) as they make hardcast bullets for a good price. They are actually right across town from me. Quite a big operation in a VERY small place! I have some 200gr (or maybe 230gr, I can't remember) SWC bullets that are great. I use Bullseye powder, 5.9gr I believe, but I would have to look at my data to be sure, I am tired right now. If you want to try a few bullets email me your address and I will send you a few. They are pretty cheap and feed great in my SIG P220. Accurate too. Get calipers too, dial or digital, but just get some! They are great to have! I use them for reloading and furniture building!

[email protected]

Mod: Please send links only via PM

 

[carter]

Curlymaple... Thank you, thank you... Those are exactly what I'm looking for.
I will be ordering some right now

Carter


Edit: Just placed an order for the 230 grain. Thank you for the link.

 

[M1911]

What are the negatives that would outweigh the cost?

Smoke and exposure to lead. I've got a few lead bullets and FMJ left, but I usually load TMJ.

 

[C-pher]

Carter, check out (edited to remove link) as they make hardcast bullets for a good price. They are actually right across town from me. Quite a big operation in a VERY small place! I have some 200gr (or maybe 230gr, I can't remember) SWC bullets that are great. I use Bullseye powder, 5.9gr I believe, but I would have to look at my data to be sure, I am tired right now. If you want to try a few bullets email me your address and I will send you a few. They are pretty cheap and feed great in my SIG P220. Accurate too. Get calipers too, dial or digital, but just get some! They are great to have! I use them for reloading and furniture building!

[email protected]

Mod: Please send links only via PM

If this is the place that I'm thinking, as the name has been removed to protect the company. I'm guessing that you live near Biddeford/Saco or something???

If so, that's where I get all my heads. I can call him with something weird and he'll make them for me.

 

[Adam_MA]

C-pher.. I know what you use, and yes this is the place you are thinking.

Adam

 

[curlymaple42]

So now that I am awake, here's that load data for the stated projectiles:

200gr SWC hardcast lead bullet
4.9gr Bullseye powder


That sound better?

 

[curlymaple42]

Sorry guys, I forget you live in the PRM and am new to the whole keeping your suppliers under radar. PM me if anyone does not know who I am talking about. Yes, I live north of where you speak of C-pher.

 

[drgrant]

Smoke and exposure to lead. I've got a few lead bullets and FMJ left, but I usually load TMJ.

Add to this what I call "filthy firearm syndrome". I've only run lead a few
times in my autos.... And it ended up doubling or tripling the amount of time
required to clean the gun completely. Of course it probably depends on the type, hardness, etc, of the lead bullets being used... and some calibers probably
"lead" up barrels a lot more than others do.

-Mike