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reloading for IDPA SSR

M1911

M1911

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I'm planning to compete in IDPA SSR next year, using .38 Spcl in my model 66. It is my understanding that factory .38 spcl loads generally do not meet the required IDPA power factor. Please, let's not discuss the wisdom (or lack of same) of this rule itself. What I'm interested in is how to meet the existing rule. Any recommendations on whether I should use a heavier or lighter bullet? In the past, I've used 125 gr Rainier plated bullets, over 4.1 gr of Bullseye, with Winchester small magnum primers. I haven't chrono'ed these yet -- I will try to do that this week.

Should I stick with 125 gr? Go with 158gr? Something else?
 
There are plenty of threads on this on the Enos forum. Most people use 158gr bullets. IIRC IDPA HQ is discussing lowering the PF and are expected to release their decision at the end of December.

The two loads that I use are:
Berrys 158gr plated, 1.500" OAL, 4.4gr of titegroup, and whatever regular small pistol primer (Craig Buckland Load)
BBI's 158gr poly coated RN, 1.45" OAL, 4.5gr HP-38/W231, and whatever regular small pistol primer

ETA: The titegroup gets pretty hot. It's not so bad in an 18 round maximum IDPA stage. However, on a 36 round ICORE stage the forcing cone gets pretty hot during the reloads
 
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eisenhow said:
There are plenty of threads on this on the Enos forum.
Click to expand...
I was over there looking for them, but I must have been looking in the wrong place. Which subforum in particular? IDPA?

Most people use 158gr bullets.
Click to expand...
That's what I was thinking.

IIRC IDPA HQ is discussing lowering the PF and are expected to release their decision at the end of December.
Click to expand...
Were you the fellow I was chatting with at the Cold Turkey match? I was shooting my model 66, and a fellow on the same squad was mentioning that he had just bought (but not yet had delivered) a model 66.

The two loads that I use are:
Berrys 158gr plated, 1.500" OAL, 4.4gr of titegroup, and whatever regular small pistol primer (Craig Buckland Load)
BBI's 158gr poly coated RN, 1.45" OAL, 4.5gr HP-38/W231, and whatever regular small pistol primer
Click to expand...
Thanks.

ETA: The titegroup gets pretty hot. It's not so bad in an 18 round maximum IDPA stage.
Click to expand...
I read a similar comment about titegroup on the Brian Enos forum.
 
M1911 said:
I was over there looking for them, but I must have been looking in the wrong place. Which subforum in particular? IDPA?
Click to expand...

I think most of the discussion is in either the revolver subforum or the 9mm/.38 reloading subform.



M1911 said:
Were you the fellow I was chatting with at the Cold Turkey match? I was shooting my model 66, and a fellow on the same squad was mentioning that he had just bought (but not yet had delivered) a model 66.
Click to expand...
No, unfortunately I missed the match, I was in upstate NY.

All of the .38 special loads that make minor are +P. A lot of them are also above published maximum load data. It's a lot easier to make a lead bullet meet PF but some people don't like the smoke and the extra cleaning of the cylinder every couple of stages. I know lugnut uses the berrys with W231 and I think he's up over 5 grains.
 
The two loads that I use are Craig Bucklands.

The afore mentioned

158gr Plated
4.4gr/TG

or

158gr Plated
4.8gr/N320

The last load was the load that Craig used at the NY State IDPA Championships and I chrono'd. No problems making PF - I forget what it was.

Load a box of each load and chono out of your gun. Use the load that yyou like the best.
 
I'm an advocate of the heavy bullet/fast powder theory.

I use 158gr Berrys with either 5.1gr 231 or 4.9gr N320. Might be a tad more than necessary but there are a few reasons why, so always chrono regardless for major matches.. club matches not an issue.

1) Lot variance with powders
2) Extra margin for chrono- some guys don't tilt the muzzle up per rules (others guns are sometimes used as well)
3) Any temp sensitivity
4) Bullet weight variation (not a big issue all bullet weights aren't perfect)
5) I don't check powder weights too often on my press once it's set up and some "drift" happens
6) Some guns are faster than others
7) Variation due to difference cases
 
One addition to the info. Buy the Berry's double struck and do not over crimp. You will find your bulets will tumble if your dies are not properly adjusted. I used titegroup for a long time but after talking to very experienced shooter a few years back I went to a Bullseye load. Titegroup is just too hot for the gun as far as I am concerned.
 
Round Gun Shooter said:
One addition to the info. Buy the Berry's double struck and do not over crimp. You will find your bulets will tumble if your dies are not properly adjusted. I used titegroup for a long time but after talking to very experienced shooter a few years back I went to a Bullseye load. Titegroup is just too hot for the gun as far as I am concerned.
Click to expand...

With berry's the crimp is key. It's a fine line between over crimping and not crimping enough. I was having issues with bullets backing out under recoil if I didn't crimp enough. Too much and you crack the plating. For cost and consistency I mostly use the LRN (that has a cannelure )with W231/HP-38. I save the Berry's for Indoor use.
 
On the crimp... Berry's can take a decent amount of crimp before plating gets ripped off. Pull a few bullets and check, shoot some groups at 20 yards to make sure you don't have too much crimp. When I pull my Berrys there is a distinctive ring where the crimp was but never any exposed lead. I'm not convinced the a slight roll crimp does a ton holding the bullets in but they sure help on the reloading.
 
Lugnut said:
On the crimp... Berry's can take a decent amount of crimp before plating gets ripped off. Pull a few bullets and check, shoot some groups at 20 yards to make sure you don't have too much crimp. When I pull my Berrys there is a distinctive ring where the crimp was but never any exposed lead. I'm not convinced the a slight roll crimp does a ton holding the bullets in but they sure help on the reloading.
Click to expand...

Dave, have you ever loaded 6, shot five, and measured the OAL of the remaining round?
 
nhams said:
Out of curiosity, do a lot (any?) SSR shooters shoot anything larger than .38? .44 seems like a good candidate.
Click to expand...

I know of one local shooter that has shot his .44 Magnum loads for fun. I haven't seen any serious competitors use anything but .38's (or .357's)
 
There are some shooters who use a S&W 625 w/moon clips. A Smith 44 with 44 specials would be good for IDPA and have no trouble meeting power reqts.
 
eisenhow said:
I know of one local shooter that has shot his .44 Magnum loads for fun. I haven't seen any serious competitors use anything but .38's (or .357's)
Click to expand...

I've seen people shoot 45AR in 625s in SSR. Be aware that the 625 is very close to the SSR weight limit, and may be over depending on model and choice of grips.
 
eisenhow said:
Dave, have you ever loaded 6, shot five, and measured the OAL of the remaining round?
Click to expand...

I have checked them visually and haven't noticed any difference. If it was significant- I would have seen some of the ring showing. And if it was only .005"-.010" I wouldn't worry. Oh... and I've also tumbled some of these rounds after by mistake... with no issues. They are a bitch to pull with a bullet puller too I might add.

Have you had different results?
 
jar said:
I've seen people shoot 45AR in 625s in SSR. Be aware that the 625 is very close to the SSR weight limit, and may be over depending on model and choice of grips.
Click to expand...

Yeah... and those were some of the softest shooting .45s I've ever seen! Just over 500 ft/sec....
 
jar said:
I've seen people shoot 45AR in 625s in SSR. Be aware that the 625 is very close to the SSR weight limit, and may be over depending on model and choice of grips.
Click to expand...

With the latest rule clarification is this allowed anymore? I don't think so.

Lugnut said:
I have checked them visually and haven't noticed any difference. If it was significant- I would have seen some of the ring showing. And if it was only .005"-.010" I wouldn't worry. Oh... and I've also tumbled some of these rounds after by mistake... with no issues. They are a bitch to pull with a bullet puller too I might add.

Have you had different results?
Click to expand...

When I was taper crimping them I saw them grow a lot. I'd have to check my notes but it was significant. Maybe .030 - 0.040". If I shot the same loads in my Ruger LCP it was even worse. That thing is so light that factor ammo grows in it (target ammo, no SD ammo). Once I started to put a light roll on them it mostly went away. One of the reasons I like the lead RN better is that with the cannelure and a roll crimp they load a lot easier.
 
eisenhow said:
When I was taper crimping them I saw them grow a lot. I'd have to check my notes but it was significant. Maybe .030 - 0.040". If I shot the same loads in my Ruger LCP it was even worse. That thing is so light that factor ammo grows in it (target ammo, no SD ammo). Once I started to put a light roll on them it mostly went away. One of the reasons I like the lead RN better is that with the cannelure and a roll crimp they load a lot easier.
Click to expand...

Ok. I used a taper crimp die but started using a roll crimp die even with the Berrys which as you know don't have a cannelure. No copper ripping/tearing, no tumbled rounds and more accuracy that I can take advantage of. Plus I have no lead crap to deal with. I'm really bad with cleaning my barrels... I clean barrels every few thousand rounds or so... Glocks too.
 
Lugnut said:
Plus I have no lead crap to deal with. I'm really bad with cleaning my barrels... I clean barrels every few thousand rounds or so... Glocks too.
Click to expand...

Barrels, not so much. Cylinders, I clean thoroughly after each match. I do have some {m,p}oly buildup that I need to to address in the barrel. It looks bad but doesn't seem to affect accuracy too much.
 
I load 5.0 grains of HP38/W231 or 4.2 of Titegroup under a Missouri Bullet Co 158 gr SWC.

No leading at all in two of my three revolvers. I have a Model 65 that leads a bit no matter which bullet I use. Must be a rough bore.
 

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