Reloading bullets without an exact match to a recipe

meh

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As will be obvious here, I'm new to reloading. Right now I'm only reloading revolver calibers for use in handguns and lever-action rifles.

What I'm wondering is how you handle these situations where the bullet is the same weight and diameter but otherwise a little different from bullets that you can find a recipe for, complete with a target number for COL, in a reloading manual.

This what's going on in my head: I read stuff about following recipes exactly. I have some XTP bullets from Hornady, and if I want a recipe for them, I can find it in the Hornady manual (provided I can get one of the particular powders they chose). But most of my bullets are less expensive: X-treme plated bullets and JSPs from another vendor. For the other 158g JSP, I figured if I didn't have a recipe exactly for it, I could use the one for a 158g XTP or other jacketed bullet and just lean towards the middle of the powder charge. But the bullet lengths are not the same, and also the canneleurs are not in the same place as the XTPs relative to the base of the bullet. So what should I use for a target COL? In some cases I can make the case capacity behind the base of the bullet identical and still put the crimp somewhere in the canneleur, but not always. In those cases, if I put the crimp somewhere in the canneleur, the case capacity behind the bullet is altered. In the situations I have, e.g. comparing a 158g XTP to the other 158g JSP, the case capacity behind the bullet would be greater in the other bullet, leading generally to lower pressures, except with powders like H110, which I understand might deliver unpredictable results at charges lower than the stated minimum. Maybe it's not enough that I need to worry about it?
 
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Fwiw, I was loading hot "Ruger only" loads in 45 colt using H110. Coated lead bullets with a crimp groove. Seating to the listed col, the entire crimp groove was exposed above the mouth of the case, so they wouldnt gauge right. I then seated the bullets deeper than the recipe called for so as to apply a proper crimp into the groove under the advice of a member here whose opinion I trust. Loads were fine.

I was leery because it was a hot load to begin with and I was seating deeper than listed in the data, but was told that its typically ok to seat to the crimp groove/cannelure with pistol rounds, even if that means seating a bit deeper than called for. Start low, watch for pressure signs as you work your way up.
 
Based on the bullet grain, I am assuming you are loading 38 Special or 357 Mag. I am not too concerned at all with length with revolvers and I tend to focus more on making sure that bullet is seated properly in the cannelure. I go for no gaps and a smooth transition from bullet to casing (my fingernail should not catch). I look for bullets that are as close as possible in the manuals (having more than a few helps) to what I am using, and when in doubt I also look online. I go at least 10% below the max grain for the particular powder I am using.

FWIW, I load 38 SPecial with 158 grain coated from MBC and use HP38 powder. I use the same bullet for 357 (just the harder version) iwith BE86 powder. I use the Lyman manual as my reference when I started working up the loads. I am fairly new to reloading, but I must say that 38Sp and 357 have to be the best calibers to learn, especially if you are not maxxing out your loads. There is quite a bit of room for error and you can build up all sorts of loads. You can create some real soft shooters, as well as ones that have plenty of pop.

Thehighroad.com is my favorite forum for reloading. The folks there are very nice and there is a 1000 years of knowledge there.

Be Safe! Pete
 
Based on the bullet grain, I am assuming you are loading 38 Special or 357 Mag.

Yes, both, and I am set up for 44 special, 44 magnum, and 45 Colt as well. I hadn't planned on loading .38 special at all, but I changed my mind and in fact started with it because of the huge margin of error when shooting them in firearms chambered for .357 magnum. Also it's more economical powder-wise for the same velocity than loading light .357 magnums. Most of my magnum loads will be shot in rifles, anyway, and not be so light, as I try to figure out what, if anything, will tighten up my groups.
 
Proceed with caution as you have been doing.
When in doubt call the bullet manufacture.
Then the powder manufacture.
It takes a while for the companies to catch up.
There are many newer bullet makers out there.
I think the bullet manufactures need to at least have some known basic loads tested from a testing facility.
I was loading some plated bullets but found even with my mild clays powder loads I was getting copper fouling vs just powder fouling with my home made cast lead bullets.
 
I was loading some plated bullets but found even with my mild clays powder loads I was getting copper fouling vs just powder fouling with my home made cast lead bullets.

I wonder if the crimp was too tight for the plated bullets, stripping off the plating and sending it down the bore after the bullet.
 
I've reloaded and shot thousands of the Zero 125 gr JSP/JHPs, 158 gr JSP/JHPs, and the 44 cal 240 gr JSPs and I made sure that the casemouth was firmly crimped into the cannelure - no less than half of the cannelure showing. This has worked well for me and I'm using near max chsrges of 2400 (357 mag) and H110 (44 mag).

I ran into the same thing when I first started reloading 357 and 44 mag just a few years ago. I decided that making sure it was properly rollcrimped in the cannelure was more important (risk bullet jump and locking up the revolver) than the making sure I matched the exact OAL as mentioned in the manuals. The other variable is the case lengths. Depending on how many firings and which brand of brass, they're never going to be the exact same length which then dictates where the cannelure will be in the case - assuming you don't adjust your seating die for every case....

The COL's that I used for 357 and 44 mag are (AT MOST) usually 0.005" shorter than the recommended COL....

Others here may not agree with this thinking but it's worked for me. Of course it doesn't mean it will work for everyone else. Do at your own risk.
 
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That's easy. Practice.

Dry-fire especially.

LOL. Yeah, with handguns that's the ticket. I've got lots of room for improvement there before the ammo matters very much, but this is the kind of group I'm talking about (in this case from Henry 44 Magnum Carbine at 100 yards). Note the flyer in the bullseye and another at about equal distance below the group. I think there are 10 shots there. Looks a little messy because I accidentally stacked a pair of splatter targets on top of one another (so I got a carbon copy). :)

 
Personally, the whole "follow the recipe exactly" is a new thing (like in the last five years).
Reloading only exists because the START load for a 115gn lead-core JHP bullet of 0.355" is still safe for a 115gn lead-core jacketed FMJ bullet.
YOU start with the start load and work up. There is NO recipe. There is a starting point and you work up from there watching for pressure signs.
You don't have the same lot of powder that ANY manual used. You don't have the same lot of bullets (and, generally not even close to the same bullet) used in any manual, your cases and primers are not the same. Your gun's chamber is not the same. Where, in all that, could you expect to just USE a recipe and use the same COL the manual used for testing?
I think there is a major disconnect between the authors of many current manuals and any reloading experience to back up what they write.
Back in the days of the dinosaurs, NO manual printed a COL. Handloaders knew how to work out the COL for their guns and whatever bullets they used. In many cases, the only bullet ID was "jacketed" or "lead" and the weight.
If any manual says to use the COL they call out, they can ONLY make that claim if you are using the SAME lot of bullets and you are using the same GUN and they can prove that they have determined the OPTIMUM COL for EVERY gun in the world.
You see, your COL (Cartridge Overall Length) is determined by;
your barrel (chamber and throat dimensions)
and
your gun (feed ramp)
and
your magazine (COL that fits magazine and when the magazine lips release the round for feeding)
and
the PARTICULAR bullet you are using.
Do you have a manual that exactly matches ANY of those to what they used?
COL in a revolver is usually very simple: the bullet can't extend beyond the front of the cylinder.
COL in a rifle is often very simple: the cartridge must fit in the magazine without binding.
COL in a semi-auto must fit the magazine and FEED and CHAMBER.
What worked in a pressure barrel or the lab's gun or in my gun has very little to do with what will work best in your gun.
Take the barrel out of the gun. Create two inert dummy rounds (no powder or primer) at max COL and remove enough case mouth flare for rounds to chamber (you can achieve this by using a sized case—expand-and-flare it, and remove the flare just until the case "plunks" in the barrel and lock the die body down temporarily).
Drop the inert rounds in and decrease the COL until they chamber completely. This will be your "max" effective COL. I prefer to have the case head flush with the barrel hood (or a few mils higher than where the head of an empty case aligns with the barrel, as all cases are too short and I prefer to minimize head space). After this, place the inert rounds in the magazine and be sure they fit the magazine and feed and chamber.
You can also do this for any chambering problems you have. Remove the barrel and drop rounds in until you find one that won't chamber. Take that round and "paint" the bullet and case black with Magic Marker or other marker. Drop this round in the barrel and rotate it back-and-forth.
Remove and inspect the round:
1) Scratches on bullet--COL is too long
2) Scratches on edge of the case mouth--insufficient crimp
3) Scratches just below the case mouth--too much crimp, you're crushing the case
4) Scratches on case at base of bullet--bullet seated crooked due to insufficient case expansion (not case mouth flare) or improper seating stem fit
5) Scratches on case just above extractor groove--case bulge not removed during sizing. May need a bulge buster.
 
LOL. Yeah, with handguns that's the ticket. I've got lots of room for improvement there before the ammo matters very much, but this is the kind of group I'm talking about (in this case from Henry 44 Magnum Carbine at 100 yards). Note the flyer in the bullseye and another at about equal distance below the group. I think there are 10 shots there. Looks a little messy because I accidentally stacked a pair of splatter targets on top of one another (so I got a carbon copy). :)


Nice shootin! I know my Henry 44 is very accurate especially with a scope. Great gun.
 
Nice shootin! I know my Henry 44 is very accurate especially with a scope. Great gun.

Thanks. This was from a rest, of course, with a scope. I don't like shooting lever actions from a rest--the action just isn't designed for it (sticks would be OK), but I was evaluating the ammo. That's Hornady LEVERevolution.
 
Two things in your post caught my eye. You're loading for a lever action rifle and many of your bullets are plated. Lever action rifles can be very sensitive to bullet shape and overall length. Plated bullets can't be driven as fast as jacketed bullets. I load for several lever action rifles and shoot thousands of plated bullets every year. I'm not being critical, just mentioning a couple of things to keep in mind.
 
Two things in your post caught my eye. You're loading for a lever action rifle and many of your bullets are plated. Lever action rifles can be very sensitive to bullet shape and overall length. Plated bullets can't be driven as fast as jacketed bullets. I load for several lever action rifles and shoot thousands of plated bullets every year. I'm not being critical, just mentioning a couple of things to keep in mind.

Check. I might shoot some plated 38 special and 44 special loads through the rifles for grins, but mostly the jacketed bullets are for the rifles and plated bullets for revolvers. I've seen that sensitivity with the factory ammo I've tried. I hope the jacketed bullets I have shoot well. If not, they'll mostly be coming out of revolvers as well. :)
 
Check. I might shoot some plated 38 special and 44 special loads through the rifles for grins, but mostly the jacketed bullets are for the rifles and plated bullets for revolvers. I've seen that sensitivity with the factory ammo I've tried. I hope the jacketed bullets I have shoot well. If not, they'll mostly be coming out of revolvers as well. :)

You won't have any issues with Zero bullets.
 
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