I know. I wasn't implying that you don't, I was just telling you the reason why I like using it over Lil'gun. Both powders should be fine though. We've never had a squib or double charge and hopefully never will
![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
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Reloading 500S&W Magnum
- Thread starter JackO
- Start date
I know. I wasn't implying that you don't, I was just telling you the reason why I like using it over Lil'gun. Both powders should be fine though. We've never had a squib or double charge and hopefully never will
No need. From the Starline site:
If you have previously purchased 500 cases without "R" on head stamp and wish to modify, you can use a large rifle pocket uniformer to deepen primer pocket to accept large rifle primers by deepening pocket approximately .006". This will not affect integrity of case.
Lil' Gun will give you faster loads with less pressure. I like it a lot for the X-frames. It flame cuts though, like everything thing else.
It runs great, but it burns up the revolver.
Not really. I make a few 'exhibition' loads with H110/W296 as it flashes more than anything else. I've been running Lil' Gun, IMR and Hodgdon 4227, and A1680 for full power loads. I'm not sure if any of these totally eliminate erosion/flame cutting though. I have 4 X-frames and they all exhibit some degree of forcing cone erosion and flame cutting of the top strap.
One thing is for sure though - The ones that have had the most H110 run through them are the worst.
ETA: It's impossible to double charge any of these powders (H110/W296, Lil' Gun. H/IMR4227, or A1680).
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So, I just got back from test firing my own first home brew reloads for the 500 S&W Magnum. It went perfectly! Very happy with the results.
I loaded:
400 grain flat nose (Mihec HP mold, with the pins turned around) lead bullet, 50-50 mix, water dropped, sized to .500", lubed with Canauba Red, .019 thick alum gas check.
30 grains of Hodgdon Lil'Gun powder
Seated to seating groove
Nice ignition. Not too bad on the recoil (always has a LOT of recoil!) Not smoky at all. No leading. The 15 rounds that I took to the sand pit near my home went fast, and I'll load up another 100 of these ASAP.
Here's my question for those who have that Mihec mold (E/C, Bob_J)...
I've already also run that mold as a HP (with the largest of the HP pins in place. ) Those drop as 340 grains.
Do you load those (340 gr HP) with the same amt of powder as the 400 gr FN? Or, do you bump up the powder a notch, as typical?
I know the weight is different, and understand that. It's that it comes from the same bullet mold. Just wondering how you do it.
As an aside, I'm seeing that the tooling pressure while sizing, etc isn't bad at all. So, I'm going to set up a Dillon tool head for this caliber. And, run it on my 550b.
I loaded:
400 grain flat nose (Mihec HP mold, with the pins turned around) lead bullet, 50-50 mix, water dropped, sized to .500", lubed with Canauba Red, .019 thick alum gas check.
30 grains of Hodgdon Lil'Gun powder
Seated to seating groove
Nice ignition. Not too bad on the recoil (always has a LOT of recoil!) Not smoky at all. No leading. The 15 rounds that I took to the sand pit near my home went fast, and I'll load up another 100 of these ASAP.
Here's my question for those who have that Mihec mold (E/C, Bob_J)...
I've already also run that mold as a HP (with the largest of the HP pins in place. ) Those drop as 340 grains.
Do you load those (340 gr HP) with the same amt of powder as the 400 gr FN? Or, do you bump up the powder a notch, as typical?
I know the weight is different, and understand that. It's that it comes from the same bullet mold. Just wondering how you do it.
As an aside, I'm seeing that the tooling pressure while sizing, etc isn't bad at all. So, I'm going to set up a Dillon tool head for this caliber. And, run it on my 550b.
My Mihec mold with the largest pins in place, with the bullet lubed and a copper gas check installed weighs 370 grains. I load it with 44.5 grains of H110.
Bob J
NES Member
Nice Duke! Sounds like you have a winnah.... Welcome to the world of fun (and cheap) boom booms.....
View attachment SW500 502HP H110.pdf
Attached is my load development worksheet for that bullet and H110..... Only hit one rung on the ladder (41.3 grains) but it was accurate (very) and the velocity (1775fps) was about as much as I wanted to push cast to..... Hopefully this will be a help....
![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
Nice Duke! Sounds like you have a winnah.... Welcome to the world of fun (and cheap) boom booms.....
View attachment 12070
Attached is my load development worksheet for that bullet and H110..... Only hit one rung on the ladder (41.3 grains) but it was accurate (very) and the velocity (1775fps) was about as much as I wanted to push cast to..... Hopefully this will be a help....
Bob,
I'm curious as to why you're using a magnum primer.
I've been loading the same bullet to the manufacturer's minimum of 44.5 grains of H110 with a LR primer (also recommended by Hodgdon). It's a few more grains of powder, but I get about the same average velocity (1757 vs 1775) but more consistency (extreme spread of 44fps vs 137 fps, std deviation of 17 vs. 56, with a 10-shot group).
How are you checking accuracy? I've been shooting off sand bags at 50 yards with a 2-6X scope (which I just wrecked). Accuracy has been pretty good with these loads.
Bob J
NES Member
Hi EC,
Will have to check to confirm but IIRC the LRMP was recommended by RR for his cast loads..... Originally I was using his cast bullets until I could get the moulds to cast my own.... Has worked pretty well for me so far but I have to admit that I haven't tried the LRP so it sounds like it is worth a shot.... Had also heard that the LRMP was necessary for consistent ignition for H110 in the 500 but would think Hodgdon's LRP recommendation would put that to rest....
For accuracy we have been shooting 50 feet, iron sights off hand at paper plates.... Mark does all the shooting when we are doing load development since his eyes and aim is much better than mine....
Has proven to be good enough for us for fun boom booms at the range.....
Will have to check to confirm but IIRC the LRMP was recommended by RR for his cast loads..... Originally I was using his cast bullets until I could get the moulds to cast my own.... Has worked pretty well for me so far but I have to admit that I haven't tried the LRP so it sounds like it is worth a shot.... Had also heard that the LRMP was necessary for consistent ignition for H110 in the 500 but would think Hodgdon's LRP recommendation would put that to rest....
For accuracy we have been shooting 50 feet, iron sights off hand at paper plates.... Mark does all the shooting when we are doing load development since his eyes and aim is much better than mine....
Has proven to be good enough for us for fun boom booms at the range.....
Bob,
I hear from CurlyMaple (Chris) that you have made up some of the same configuration as I ran, the flat nose version, at 400 grains.
Have you fired those, and developed your load data for that one?
I'm loading these with Lil'Gun, but should be able to draw some correlations from my reloading data book.
Oh, and for the record, I used Remington Large Rifle Primers (just the regular type), and they worked fine. Thankfully, the regular type are much easier to find than, say, the magnum versions.
As long as you're not encroaching on max loads, magnum large rifle primers should be fine. H110 specifically calls for magnum primers on some other loads, so I don't see it as a biggie on this one.
I hear from CurlyMaple (Chris) that you have made up some of the same configuration as I ran, the flat nose version, at 400 grains.
Have you fired those, and developed your load data for that one?
I'm loading these with Lil'Gun, but should be able to draw some correlations from my reloading data book.
Oh, and for the record, I used Remington Large Rifle Primers (just the regular type), and they worked fine. Thankfully, the regular type are much easier to find than, say, the magnum versions.
As long as you're not encroaching on max loads, magnum large rifle primers should be fine. H110 specifically calls for magnum primers on some other loads, so I don't see it as a biggie on this one.
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Bob J
NES Member
Hi Duke,
No problem.... We made those up special for Chris so unfortunately I don't have any load data for them.... Sorry....
Would think any load for a comparable weight would be fine..... Keep in mind that if the load you find listed is for jacketed bullets you will probably see a faster MV (and lower CUP) for the same weight in cast due to the lower coefficient of friction....
No problem.... We made those up special for Chris so unfortunately I don't have any load data for them.... Sorry....
Would think any load for a comparable weight would be fine..... Keep in mind that if the load you find listed is for jacketed bullets you will probably see a faster MV (and lower CUP) for the same weight in cast due to the lower coefficient of friction....
If you try LR primers, you might continue to see inconsistent results until/unless you boost the powder charge up to the minimum. H110/W296 is notorious for inconsistency with light charges. There's nothing wrong with light(er) loads, but H110 is probably not the powder you want to use to make them.
I understand that RR is pretty well respected in the cast bullet community, and I'm sure he has good reasons for recommending what he recommends, but there's no way he has the resources of a powder company.
Maybe so, but not for the .500
Hey Duke, are you weighing these as-dropped or lubed with a gas check installed?
Dropped, and will be later adding ALUMINUM gas checks (not quite as heavy as copper), and will lube with canauba red (same weight as all the other lubes). I have to yank my lubricizer out after my Wednesday reloading class. I'm flying close to the flame.
BTW, let me know if you want to try some aluminum GC's. I have some .019" alum strip (would love to find a source for flat strip in this thickness instead of buying a bent piece (rain diverter) from the hardware store.), and would be happy to send you a few for testing. They work fine here. The FreeChex III works slick!
BTW, Bob.... I don't have any way of confirming (no other thicknesses to try it with), but I am seeing "wiping streaks" on the outside of the alum gas checks, and guessing that there's a fixed clearance in the tool, which would limit the thickness of the side walls of the alum gas checks. I'll drop Charlie a line, andd see what he has to say. Trying to locate .020" or .021" stock would be a waste if that were the case. It might extrude that stock's sidewall down to .019". That sort of thing. I'll let you know what Charlie says.
BTW, let me know if you want to try some aluminum GC's. I have some .019" alum strip (would love to find a source for flat strip in this thickness instead of buying a bent piece (rain diverter) from the hardware store.), and would be happy to send you a few for testing. They work fine here. The FreeChex III works slick!
BTW, Bob.... I don't have any way of confirming (no other thicknesses to try it with), but I am seeing "wiping streaks" on the outside of the alum gas checks, and guessing that there's a fixed clearance in the tool, which would limit the thickness of the side walls of the alum gas checks. I'll drop Charlie a line, andd see what he has to say. Trying to locate .020" or .021" stock would be a waste if that were the case. It might extrude that stock's sidewall down to .019". That sort of thing. I'll let you know what Charlie says.
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Yeah, I'll be making some up for him in that configuration, UNSIZED. He says that the .500 diameter is too small for what he wants to do. Since they drop at .502, I'll run some as dropped (he'll have to pan lube), and also as .501", so he can do complete testing. He's off on vacation, and then enduring some surgery.
Was hoping that you had also shot some of those. Everyone loves HP's!!!![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
Was hoping that you had also shot some of those. Everyone loves HP's!!!
Hi Duke,
No problem.... We made those up special for Chris so unfortunately I don't have any load data for them.... Sorry....
Would think any load for a comparable weight would be fine..... Keep in mind that if the load you find listed is for jacketed bullets you will probably see a faster MV (and lower CUP) for the same weight in cast due to the lower coefficient of friction....
Bob J
NES Member
As it turns out I have a .502 and a .501 sizing die for my Star..... Just sayin....
Yeah, I'll be making some up for him in that configuration, UNSIZED. He says that the .500 diameter is too small for what he wants to do. Since they drop at .502, I'll run some as dropped (he'll have to pan lube), and also as .501", so he can do complete testing. He's off on vacation, and then enduring some surgery.
Was hoping that you had also shot some of those. Everyone loves HP's!!!
Well, Mihec's mold is made to drop them at .502. So, the only thing that your Magma Star would do is to lube them on the fly (vs pan lubing). I bought a .500 sizer from LatheSmith at castboolits, and so have the .500", .501" (both lubed) and the .502" (not lubed) covered.
I'll make Chris some .501" samples, as well as give him some .502 as cast samples, and let him do his experiments. I'll swap him something or other (whatever size he settles on) for all of his .500 sized boolits. It should be good for him, and good for me.
E/C (Jim), could you make this thread a sticky? I asked about that a while ago, and it seems to me that we have some honest to goodness great info here in this thread. It's something that almost anyone wanting to get into this caliber would be looking for.
I'll make Chris some .501" samples, as well as give him some .502 as cast samples, and let him do his experiments. I'll swap him something or other (whatever size he settles on) for all of his .500 sized boolits. It should be good for him, and good for me.
E/C (Jim), could you make this thread a sticky? I asked about that a while ago, and it seems to me that we have some honest to goodness great info here in this thread. It's something that almost anyone wanting to get into this caliber would be looking for.
I don't think we need a sticky. We'll remember that it's here and resurrect it as needed. I think there are too many stickies as it is. Like laws.
I got my SPIRE point mold back from Al Nelson (Swede) today, and will be cranking that up tomorrow.
I also got in the Round Nose mold that Al made for the 500.
So, now I can make:
That's the good news....
The bad news is that my FreeChex III tool BROKE. Charlie Darnall is chalking it up to prototype design flaws, and is replacing it with "generation 2" version of the tool. I should have that in by the end of the week. The new version is oblong in overall shape, so that the mouth where you insert the sheet stock has more support in the back (needed for the larger diameters, with it's thicker stock.
Also, I bought some copper sheet (rolls) from Storm Copper. Good price (kinda), and it makes great checks. So I'm hooked up for aluminum and copper checks for the 500!
I also got in the Round Nose mold that Al made for the 500.
So, now I can make:
- Hollow Point bullets
- Flat Nose (same mold, turn the pins around)
- Spire Point
- Round Nose
That's the good news....
The bad news is that my FreeChex III tool BROKE. Charlie Darnall is chalking it up to prototype design flaws, and is replacing it with "generation 2" version of the tool. I should have that in by the end of the week. The new version is oblong in overall shape, so that the mouth where you insert the sheet stock has more support in the back (needed for the larger diameters, with it's thicker stock.
Also, I bought some copper sheet (rolls) from Storm Copper. Good price (kinda), and it makes great checks. So I'm hooked up for aluminum and copper checks for the 500!
I did some 500 Magnum shooting with EC this past weekend. One of the things I asked him about was shooting gloves.
He let me use his pair of Uncle Mikes (in Large size, which was perfect for my hands) for a few shots. WOW! Big difference handling this gun.
I went looking for a pair for myself, and was saddened to find out that Uncle Mikes has dropped their shooting gloves from their product lineup for 2010. There are still a few pairs floating around out there, but I decided to keep looking. PAST also makes shooting gloves, and at first glance, their gloves seemed to be almost the same as Uncle Mikes (some people suspect that PAST made the gloves for Uncle Mikes)... However, when reading the reviews on Midwest USA, I see that LOTS of people have had problems with seems coming undone and leather splitting. Scratch them off my list.
So, I sent out some emails to my "technical operator" contacts (LEO's with lots of experience with "gear").... almost to the man, they suggested going to GRAINGERS, and trying out some gel palmed "impact" gloves..... I have one (Graingers) about 1/2 hour rom here, and will stop there later in the week. The models I am looking at are:
I'll report back as to which one I bought after trying them on.
Also, I mentioned to Jim that I had seen the web site for Ballistic Supply, who sells ammo for the S&W 500 magnum. Their site shows a reduced load for this gun with the effective recoil of a 38.
http://www.ballisticsupply.net/Default.aspx?tabid=252105
The trick apparently is to use IMR's "TRAIL BOSS" powder.
In the new 2010 Hodgdon reloading manual, their article says you cannot put enough Trail Boss in a bottleneck case to cause an overcharge problem. They now recommend this method with the powder for using jacketed bullets for reduced loads.
Seat a bullet in brass, mark brass where bottom of bullet is. Pull bullet and fill case with trail boss to the line you have marked for bottom of bullet. Then measure the grains of powder it took to reach mark. This number of grains of Trail Boss you've measured is the 100% load density. Article said you should start your reloads at 70% load density. For example: if a 270 Winchester brass takes 20 grains of trail boss for 100% load density with jacketed bullet you want to use, then multiply 20gr by .70, which gives you the 14 grains, the 70% load density. (20 gr X .70 = 14 grs, the 70% load density) ( 20 gr X .80 = 16gr, the 80 percent load density). Article says to increase charge in 5 grain increments to find trail boss load with best accuracy for jacketed bullet you are using. Optimum accuracy should be between 70 to 100% load density."
"It is impossible to overcharge any cartridge with Trail Boss, simply because it is impossible to get enough into a case to exceed maximum chamber pressures for that cartridge."
Apparently, they do NOT want you to overfill the case. The phrase that they use is: "Don't crush the donuts".... (Trail Boss looks like small donuts.....)
So, using this powder with cast lead bullets should require a call to IMR for confirmation as to use. But, I'm looking forward to getting some quality time in with my 6 3/8" 500 Magnum at low recoil.
BTW, my FreeChex came back as a new version. Having some cycling issues getting the tool to open back up after a bottoming out stroke. I'll almost have to figure out a way to keep the arbor press from going too far. I'm running some copper that I got from Storm Copper. Copper is definitely different than aluminum for these checks.
He let me use his pair of Uncle Mikes (in Large size, which was perfect for my hands) for a few shots. WOW! Big difference handling this gun.
I went looking for a pair for myself, and was saddened to find out that Uncle Mikes has dropped their shooting gloves from their product lineup for 2010. There are still a few pairs floating around out there, but I decided to keep looking. PAST also makes shooting gloves, and at first glance, their gloves seemed to be almost the same as Uncle Mikes (some people suspect that PAST made the gloves for Uncle Mikes)... However, when reading the reviews on Midwest USA, I see that LOTS of people have had problems with seems coming undone and leather splitting. Scratch them off my list.
So, I sent out some emails to my "technical operator" contacts (LEO's with lots of experience with "gear").... almost to the man, they suggested going to GRAINGERS, and trying out some gel palmed "impact" gloves..... I have one (Graingers) about 1/2 hour rom here, and will stop there later in the week. The models I am looking at are:
- Ergodyne Model 900, Grainger number 1EC80
- Valeo Model VI4880LGWWGL, Grainger number 3NJC1
- Condor Model 2XRU7, Grainger number 2XRU7
- Impacto Model AV408L, Grainger number 4HDK7
I'll report back as to which one I bought after trying them on.
Also, I mentioned to Jim that I had seen the web site for Ballistic Supply, who sells ammo for the S&W 500 magnum. Their site shows a reduced load for this gun with the effective recoil of a 38.
http://www.ballisticsupply.net/Default.aspx?tabid=252105
The trick apparently is to use IMR's "TRAIL BOSS" powder.
In the new 2010 Hodgdon reloading manual, their article says you cannot put enough Trail Boss in a bottleneck case to cause an overcharge problem. They now recommend this method with the powder for using jacketed bullets for reduced loads.
Seat a bullet in brass, mark brass where bottom of bullet is. Pull bullet and fill case with trail boss to the line you have marked for bottom of bullet. Then measure the grains of powder it took to reach mark. This number of grains of Trail Boss you've measured is the 100% load density. Article said you should start your reloads at 70% load density. For example: if a 270 Winchester brass takes 20 grains of trail boss for 100% load density with jacketed bullet you want to use, then multiply 20gr by .70, which gives you the 14 grains, the 70% load density. (20 gr X .70 = 14 grs, the 70% load density) ( 20 gr X .80 = 16gr, the 80 percent load density). Article says to increase charge in 5 grain increments to find trail boss load with best accuracy for jacketed bullet you are using. Optimum accuracy should be between 70 to 100% load density."
"It is impossible to overcharge any cartridge with Trail Boss, simply because it is impossible to get enough into a case to exceed maximum chamber pressures for that cartridge."
Apparently, they do NOT want you to overfill the case. The phrase that they use is: "Don't crush the donuts".... (Trail Boss looks like small donuts.....)
So, using this powder with cast lead bullets should require a call to IMR for confirmation as to use. But, I'm looking forward to getting some quality time in with my 6 3/8" 500 Magnum at low recoil.
BTW, my FreeChex came back as a new version. Having some cycling issues getting the tool to open back up after a bottoming out stroke. I'll almost have to figure out a way to keep the arbor press from going too far. I'm running some copper that I got from Storm Copper. Copper is definitely different than aluminum for these checks.
JackO
Instructor
The power of 500SW Magnum
Here is a very interesting video about the power of 500S&W Magnum. All credits to Pilgrim for finding this link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-NDjUJlbaw
Here is a very interesting video about the power of 500S&W Magnum. All credits to Pilgrim for finding this link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-NDjUJlbaw
Some of mine would've taken out the sawhorses and 2/3 of the berm.
Just made up some 460 grain round nose bullets, and loaded them into rounds that would take out all the bottles, the sawhorses, the berm, and the trees in the background.....
BTW, the only thing bigger than this (that I know of) are the 700 grain T-Rex bullets (my mold is due in November....) Yes, 700 grains is 1/10th of a pound each!!!!
BTW, the only thing bigger than this (that I know of) are the 700 grain T-Rex bullets (my mold is due in November....) Yes, 700 grains is 1/10th of a pound each!!!!
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I'de be interested to see how the different bullet types affect the results. I figure spire would penetrate more even though they're smaller than the 700gr. But the 700gr is flat and will quickly release it's energy. Think we might have to test this theory out at the next shoot in Monadnock
Mark, did you and your dad get the ROUND NOSE mold from NOE?
Yep we got it. Been pretty busy with lots of other projects so haven't had the opportunity to cast up any yet. The ones you made up look pretty sweet!
Fixxah
NES Member
If anybody is bringing their 500 to the next NES shoot could I try one of the berm busters? The reloading manuals list the .45-70 as SEVERE in the recoil department and the 500 as moderate. I don't have one but may get it for my Contender. I am waiting to hear from Mihec reguarding a mold for the 45-70 in HP for pumpkin killin.
You can shoot mine anytime. Let me know if you're going to be up this way and we can take it out.
Likewise John, we may or may not be at the pumpkin shoot, but you're always welcome to try ours
