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Reloading 500S&W Magnum

Hi Duke,
Gas checks are relatively expensive but much less than a complete purchased cast/GC/Lubed bullet.....[wink]

Right now I make my own using a Freechex II die set and a Harbor Freight press... Would like to get it in a Freechex III configuration but that might be a while and I know Pat is planning on making a die but that might be a while out as well....

If you decide to buy your gas checks you might want to go through Blammer over on Cast Boolits..... He sets up group buys for gas checks and can save you a fair amount of money....

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=86706

I originally sized to .501 but had some problems with occasional rounds not fitting the cylinder (due to case run out associated with the bullets not seating perpendicular).... After a discussion with Ranger Rick started sizing to .500 (all his S&W bullets are sized to .500) and using a Lyman M die (highly recommended) the problems all disappeared....

HP is 50/50 water dropped (16 BHN) and the SP is straight WW water dropped (22 BHN), both with LLC Carnauba Red lube.... Never had leading in this gun ever.... Am thinking it might be interesting to try some plain range lead with the new 440 grain RFN to see how soft I can go before I start to lead....[thinking]

DukeInMaine said:
Bob,
E/C commented on Saturday that the gas checks for these are expensive.
Have you made any progress with asking either Pat Marlin or the FreeChex III guy about making one for this size?
In the meantime, where do you get them from?

Also, I understand that you are running these as 50-50 mix. What are you sizing them to?

(This could become the definitive internet discussion on this subject)
Click to expand...
 
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Here is some interesting loading data from this discussion:
http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=13275

Source Powder Charge Bullet Velocity Note
John Taffin H110 34.0 370 gr. CPB LGC 1,642
John Taffin H110 36.0 370 gr. CPB LGC 1,676
John Taffin H110 38.0 370 gr. CPB LGC 1,690
Hogdon H110 44.5 370 gr. CPB LGC 1,801 Starting Loads
Hogdon H110 47.0 370 gr. CPB LGC 1,909 Max Loads
John Taffin H4227 34.0 370 gr. CPB LGC 1,515
John Taffin H4227 36.0 370 gr. CPB LGC 1,562
John Taffin H4227 38.0 370 gr. CPB LGC 1,635
Hogdon H4227 40.0 370 gr. CPB LGC 1,688 Starting Load
John Taffin H4227 40.0 370 gr. CPB LGC 1,720
Hogdon H4227 42.0 370 gr. CPB LGC 1,784 Max Loads
John Taffin HS6 15.0 370 gr. CPB LGC 1,108
John Taffin Lil' Gun 30.0 370 gr. CPB LGC 1,405
John Taffin Lil' Gun 32.0 370 gr. CPB LGC 1,498
John Taffin Lil' Gun 34.0 370 gr. CPB LGC 1,589
Hogdon Lil' Gun 41.0 370 gr. CPB LGC 1,831 Starting Loads
Hogdon Lil' Gun 44.5 370 gr. CPB LGC 1,949 Max Loads
Hogdon Longshot 21.5 370 gr. CPB LGC 1,476 Starting Loads
Hogdon Longshot 23.3 370 gr. CPB LGC 1,576 Max Loads
Hogdon Titegroup 16.0 370 gr. CPB LGC 1,326 Starting Loads
Hogdon Titegroup 18.5 370 gr. CPB LGC 1,431 Max Loads
John Taffin Unique 10.0 370 gr. CPB LGC 927
John Taffin WW231 10.0 370 gr. CPB LGC 942
 
JackO said:
BTW, what is CPB LGC bullet? I understand this is a lead cast bullet with gas-check. But what does PB stand for?
Click to expand...

Cast Performance Bullets (It's a company that makes cast bullets).

Like most of the info on the Hodgdon site, the data pertains to a specific bullet - in this case it's Cast Performance Bullet's 370gr gas checked bullet. I used the starting load for my tests because the weight and bearing surface for my cast bullets is similar to the CPB bullet.
 
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I own the 8 and have shot the 4. The longer barrel was more accurate. The 4" didn't loose as much velocity as I expected and was extremely accurate just not quite as accurate as the longer barrel. Even the shorter barreled guns are very large. My wife says it looks like a clown gun what ever that is. I like the long barrel better but I'd recommend shooting both if you can. One bit of advice: don't stand next to EC when he shoots his if you like having hair on your arms.
 
DO NOT UNDERCHARGE 500 S&W Mag with H-110

JackO said:
Any idea on what might happen on the light charges with H-110, any risk of detonation? Should I pull the bullets and reload with more H-110?
Click to expand...

Not sure about cast bullets but my experience with low charges of H-110 with jacketed were disastrous. The bullets lodged in the forcing cone and the powder seemed crystallized. It didn't burn! [shocked]

I'm just glad it didn't damage the gun.
 
A whole page of clown guns:
http://www.manofest.com/Galleries/B...eally-Shouldn-t-Own-Guns/Gun-Clown-11427.html

But, I bet she means this:
21024.jpg
or this:
killer_clown_poster-p228147130598599069tdcp_400.jpg


gerrycaruso said:
My wife says it looks like a clown gun what ever that is. .
Click to expand...
 
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ipscdrl said:
Not sure about cast bullets but my experience with low charges of H-110 with jacketed were disastrous. The bullets lodged in the forcing cone and the powder seemed crystallized. It didn't burn!
Click to expand...

This mirrors my experience with too-light charges of H110. The powder didn't burn, but instead turned into yellowish crystals and caused a squib. There's a 'tipping point' in the starting pressure for this powder below which it won't fully ignite.

I had a related problem with H110 and Berrys plated 335gr .500 bullets w/cannelure. Here's what happened (hopefully you all can avoid this).

Not to put too fine a point on it, but these bullets suck: http://www.berrysmfg.com/products-c35-500_SW_.500.aspx

The picture on that page is not of the actual .500 bullet, it's a picture of a .45-70 bullet. The actual .500 bullets have the cannelure much too close to the bottom of the bullet - it's only about 1/4" from the bottom. This puts too little of the bullet inside the case, not allowing the case to provide enough initial 'grab' to keep the bullet in the place long enough after ignition to allow the pressure to build up to what H110 needs to burn.

When I first loaded these, I used a charge of H110 that should have been sufficient to avoid squibs. The same charge works flawlessly on similar weight bullets (seated deeper). With the Berrys bullets, I got two squibs out of ten rounds, and the velocity on the other 8 was inconsistent.

Since I knew the charge weight was OK, I suspected that the pressure wasn't building fast enough, so I tried large rifle magnum primers in the next test. I got three squibs on my first three rounds. I think the magnum primer popped the bullet out quicker, resulting in even less pressure.

Next I tried seating the bullets as deeply as I could (while still crimping into the cannelure), and applying a much stronger crimp. I was leery about using too much crimp because I've cut through and stripped off the the plating in the past on non-cannelured plated bullets. I increased the crimp little by little, and pulled and inspected the bullets to make sure they were still OK until I arrived at a stronger crimp that I felt comfortable shooting. By increasing the crimp I was able to his eliminate the squibs, but the velocity remained inconsistent with a range of charge weights.

I ended up switching to IMR 4227 to use up the rest of the bullets, which worked much better.
 
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Jim, the .500 mag is always a roll crimp?

I have loaded 357 mag and 38 special with berry's double ended wad cutters, with no cannelure, and just set the roll crimp for up near the end, which is the traditional place. No issues with roll crimping into the plating. The lead is dead soft lead, and the copper is very stretchy. Good roll crimp, not cutting of the plating.

Just wondering if you tried roll crimping through the plating. I've always thought of cannelures as a waste of effort.
 
DukeInMaine said:
Just wondering if you tried roll crimping through the plating. I've always thought of cannelures as a waste of effort.
Click to expand...

For the .500, I only roll-crimp jacketed or plated bullets if there's a cannelure. I use a taper crimp on all plain jacketed/plated bullets. I roll crimp all cast bullets.

I tried a roll crimp on Rainier plated (non-cannelure) bullets and ended up stripping off the plating and leaving it in the forcing cone. Fortunately, I found it before I fired a shot. The pressures in a .500 far exceed .38 Special, so all kinds of weird stuff can happen.

I won't use .500 bullets that I can't roll crimp on anything except very light loads. A taper crimp won't hold a hot load, and the bullets jump the crimp and lock up the gun.
 
FYI, Duke is setting up a group buy over on Cast Boolits for another run of the .502 Cramer HP shown in the OP..... Here is the link if anyone is interested in this cool mould:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=87696

This is the link to the original buy:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=55121

This mould comes with two different HP pins (regular and extra large, as shown in the OP) and can also be used to cast a RFN... Would give it a look if you are interesting in casting your own for the beast....[wink]
 
Since this is destined to become THE DEFINITIVE thread in all of the Internet universe on this subject, here are a couple more great questions:

So, I'm looking for a die set. Carbide, I understand. But, one of E/C's comments made me wonder about crimping.......

1) Who's die set are you using, and why? My tendency is to go with the lesser expensive Lee set, but I will listen to reason with these big bad boy cartridges.
2) And, is this ALWAYS roll crimped (I think it should be), or are there die sets that taper crimp?
 
Don't mix up your brass! .500 S&W Magnum uses rims that are larger than case diameter

For those of us just getting into this:

Some friends have been handing me what they thought were .500 S&W cases. They turn out to be .500 AE (Action Express) cases, which are fired from the Desert Eagle.

Those of you collecting brass need to be careful to NOT try and load .500 AE brass in your S&W!

During my reloading class, I always talk about case styles, and haven't seen any brass come across my reloading bench with a REBATED rim, until now. The rims on the .500 AE are rebated. That is, the diameter of the rim is less than the case diameter.

You have to use brass with larger rims than the case diameter on a revolver.

Don't confuse .500 AE (which are clearly marked as such) with .500 S&W
 
1) Who's die set are you using, and why? My tendency is to go with the lesser expensive Lee set, but I will listen to reason with these big bad boy cartridges.
Click to expand...

I use the RCBS carbide die set
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=888214
Lyman M neck expander die
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productnumber=620882
and Redding profile crimp die
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productnumber=137897

Why RCBS, not Lee? Lee would work too, but I found from all my experience, RCBS dies come a litter better quality than Lee, and definitely last longer.

I bought Lyman M expander and Redding roll crimp dies on EC recommendation, and am very happy I did this. I tried loading 500S&WMAG in Dillon 550B, and use Dillon funnel die to expand the necks. It does not work well - too much friction when pulling the die from this large, heavy walled case. Too difficult to get consistent results with powder dispensing.
Lyman M is not just "belling" the top of the case like all traditional dies do. Here is how manufacturer describes this die. "Works in a two step process, the first step expands the inside of the case neck to just under bullet diameter. The second step expands the case mouth to bullet diameter or slightly over so that the bullet can be started perfectly centered". And the die does exactly as described.

2) And, is this ALWAYS roll crimped (I think it should be), or are there die sets that taper crimp?
Click to expand...
As you can see in the OP, some bullets with no cannelure can be used with light loads and taper crimp. I used a 50AE RCBS crimp die I had.
 
My .500 dies are RCBS carbide. I use them just because most of my die sets are RCBS. I've noticed two things about the .500 that are different than other straight handgun rounds. Some of the early brass has primer pockets for large pistol primers. All my brass uses rifle primers. Even with carbide dies you need to use a little case lube.
 
500 S&W Magnum
44-500comp.jpg
Comparison of the 500 S&W cartridge (right) to the popular .44 Remington Magnum
Type Centerfire (.50 caliber)
Place of origin United States
Production history
Designer Cor-Bon / Smith & Wesson
Designed 2003
Manufacturer Smith & Wesson
Specifications
Bullet diameter .50 in (13 mm)
Neck diameter .526 in (13.4 mm)
Base diameter .526 in (13.4 mm)
Rim diameter .556 in (14.1 mm)
Rim thickness .056 in (1.4 mm)
Case length 1.6 in (41 mm)
Overall length 2.300 in (58.4 mm)
Primer type Large pistol originally, now Large rifle

I saw a lube comment (similar to yours) in one of the reviews of the carbide die sets at Midway.

I also notice these comments in the .500 S&W Magnum WIKI:
The recoil of this cartridge is very strong. Smith & Wesson has incorporated design features into their Smith & Wesson Model 500, including a compensator (muzzle brake), recoil reducing rubber grips, and considerable weight (56 ounces ~ 82 ounces) [11] to help mitigate the recoil.[12] All of the above features reduce the recoil which usually causes the muzzle to rise and produces a "straight back" effect. The .500 S&W Magnum is so powerful that the shock wave from the firing of a cartridge can cause eye and hearing damage; it is prudent to wear safety glasses and "ear muff" hearing protection when shooting this pistol.

So, even though I might otherwise lean towards the 4" barrel, now I'm wondering if the longer barrel with the muzzle brake would be a better choice. As far as I know, the 4" is not available with a muzzle brake.
 
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OK, another question:

I have three models that I can get a good deal on:

  • 4" SS, which has a unique muzzle brake.
  • 6.5", which has two compensator ports slightly behind the front sight, very different from the compensator design for:
  • 8 3/8", which has a single compensator port built into the top of the barrel, forward of the front sight.

Does anyone have any experience with the mid range length, the 6.5" model? The port design looks interesting.

4"
163504_01_lg.jpg


6.5"
163565_01_lg.jpg


8 3/8"
163500_01_lg.jpg
 
I've never shot the 4", but I'm pretty sure they all have fixed comps. The 4" is easier to shoot but noisier and the 8" is slightly more accurate but you have to be careful not to clock yourself with the barrel swinging back and up (If I correctly read ECs explanation a few pages back in the thread)

smith_500_4.jpg
 
According to S&W both the 4" and the 8 3/8" come with removable compensators. The web says that the 4" comes with two. One for lead bullets and one for jacketed. My 8 3/8" came with one and I've never tried to remove it.
 
Yeah, if you look at the pictures, above, you'll see that the longer one, the 8 3/8" barrel, has the one port in front of the front sight.

The other two lengths (4" and 6.5") have two ports, one on each side of the barrel, slightly to the rear of the front sight.

Have to do some homework to find if they are truly removable.

Is it a good guess that no one has experience with the 6.5" version because the stores you got them from didn't carry them? I'm leaning in that direction.
 
GerryCaruso is right. The 4" comes with two removable compensators - one for jacketed, and one for lead bullets. The compensators have holes on the sides and the top.

The older 8-3/8" models (like the one in the picture above) have a fixed compensator. The newer (more expensive) ones have removable compensators. Whichever barrel length you get, I'd recommend you get a model with removable compensators, as these don't lead up like the fixed ones, and are much easier to clean.
 

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