Red Dots… are they total bs on a compact?

maybe I’ll give it another go… but in the meantime- Red dots…. Who needs em!!!
(Hit 100 yard 6 inch steel on my first shot today… missed the next 5 though lol)
 

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That's something I didn't consider, so good point. I suppose that's because I don't like the thought of a plate and have tried to avoid those systems. But if I could afford a Staccato, I think I'd still give it a go.

But for flush mount optics, it seems really weird to me to not find the dot. It would be like presenting without a dot and being so off on irons that you don't see one of them.

It's not a good point because it is wrong. Plenty of people have been shooting with dots on frame mounts that sit well above the bore. They aren't any harder to find
 

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ze prezense of the adapter plate. sits too high.
Meh.

I have six pistols with dots on them. Three of them have the slide cut to narrow the angle between line of sight and bore, three of them don’t.

Two of these are buckmarks with optic mounted on rail. They’re the ones with the most extreme angle.

All are zerod at 31 feet. I do tend to shoot a little low at very close range, but not horribly.

Pick a distance based on your shooting needs and zero to it. Adapter plate really isn’t going to make much difference.
 
Meh.

I have six pistols with dots on them. Three of them have the slide cut to narrow the angle between line of sight and bore, three of them don’t.

Two of these are buckmarks with optic mounted on rail. They’re the ones with the most extreme angle.

All are zerod at 31 feet. I do tend to shoot a little low at very close range, but not horribly.

Pick a distance based on your shooting needs and zero to it. Adapter plate really isn’t going to make much difference.
I did not pay much attention to it until I got scs setup on g34… but now, when I know of how the alternative can feel - it is rather annoying.

I zero them all now for 25yds. Trying to get back to target shooting. Tried to hold a classic stance with a 3lbs shadow today - did not work out too well for too long. :)
 
so many words...
b5f90c03d4f862af59ff304b8d065a2b.jpg

View: https://youtu.be/fNDergmSQBY?t=45
 
...I tried with close to 100 rounds to zero it in…

It’s a holosun 407k properly attached.
Are you sure the red dot is properly attached?

The one time I saw someone not hit anything with a handgun using a dot (that I knew was zeroed in), the guy was holding the handgun a little low and bringing his head to the dot, so he was shooting everywhere. Are you doing that?
 
It's not a good point because it is wrong. Plenty of people have been shooting with dots on frame mounts that sit well above the bore. They aren't any harder to find

I could see this having an impact if you did it to a gun you already were comfortable shooting with irons. The additional height over bore would change presentation a bit, so it would take muscle memory some reps to adjust.
 
Are you sure the red dot is properly attached?

The one time I saw someone not hit anything with a handgun using a dot (that I knew was zeroed in), the guy was holding the handgun a little low and bringing his head to the dot, so he was shooting everywhere. Are you doing that?
Not doing that. It’s probably just improperly zeroed. I think I will try a boresight to make things simple if they are reasonably priced. Have you ever used a laser? I’m wondering if that could be fun.
 
I could see this having an impact if you did it to a gun you already were comfortable shooting with irons. The additional height over bore would change presentation a bit, so it would take muscle memory some reps to adjust.

Yeah, just like anything, it take a practice to learn. But it isn't harder to find a dot higher above the bore than lower.
 
Not doing that. It’s probably just improperly zeroed. I think I will try a boresight to make things simple if they are reasonably priced. Have you ever used a laser? I’m wondering if that could be fun.
Lasers are a waste of money in my opinion. I saw one guy using one in USPSA, it was funny AF, dude was super slow trying to get the laser on target.

When you sight it in, how far are you sighting it in?
Are you holding the gun the same way every time?

Sight it in close at like 10 yards. Then move the target further out 5 yards until you reach your desired distance.

It shouldn't take 90 rounds to sight in a handgun. 10 rounds max.

After that, if you can't hit plates and the dot is properly mounted, it is not the dot or the gun, it is the shooter.
 
Not doing that. It’s probably just improperly zeroed. I think I will try a boresight to make things simple if they are reasonably priced. Have you ever used a laser? I’m wondering if that could be fun.

It really can only be 2 things, either the dot is broken and not holding zero, or you are moving the gun off target as you break the shot. If you feel you have a good trigger press and no flinch, then you have a broken dot. Improperly zero'ed isn't a thing, it is either zero'ed or it isn't.

Even if the dot wasn't zero'ed, you should be able to hold a tight group
 
Not doing that. It’s probably just improperly zeroed. I think I will try a boresight to make things simple if they are reasonably priced. Have you ever used a laser? I’m wondering if that could be fun.

You need an extremely good index for a laser to be even slightly effective. Basically you need to be able to have your gun point exactly where you are looking without the use of sights
 
You need an extremely good index for a laser to be even slightly effective. Basically you need to be able to have your gun point exactly where you are looking without the use of sights
On some guns, a laser is pretty much the only option for me. My pocket gun is a Kahr PM9 and I’ve put a laser on it. I’ve also put a set of laser grips on my S&W Model 19.

Lasers certainly aren’t optimal, but I can’t focus on the front sight anymore, so it’s the best option I’ve got.
 
Some people have a hard time finding the "acceptable" time to pull the trigger with a dot because they see it constantly moving and it distracts them. Irons sites do this too of course, but the brain is better at averaging relationships of things like iron sites and providing a "zone" that is acceptable for trigger pull.

If you struggle with a dot, try a donut site instead and see how it changes.
 
Some people have a hard time finding the "acceptable" time to pull the trigger with a dot because they see it constantly moving and it distracts them. Irons sites do this too of course, but the brain is better at averaging relationships of things like iron sites and providing a "zone" that is acceptable for trigger pull.

If you struggle with a dot, try a donut site instead and see how it changes.
It's almost like a larger dot obscures (relatively) small movements better than a tiny one...
 
It's almost like a larger dot obscures (relatively) small movements better than a tiny one...

not "almost", that's exactly what happens.

Or to put it another way, it's easier to see the smaller dot dancing around the target.

I've been using a dot now for a while. Started using one about 8 or 10 years ago to shoot bowling pins with; moved to CarryOptics in IDPA/USPSA/SC the last couple of years. If you're a bullseye shooter and focusing on that perfect shot - you're going to be too slow for any action pistol sports. But - you need to get wobble contained within the target area.
 
not "almost", that's exactly what happens.

Or to put it another way, it's easier to see the smaller dot dancing around the target.

I've been using a dot now for a while. Started using one about 8 or 10 years ago to shoot bowling pins with; moved to CarryOptics in IDPA/USPSA/SC the last couple of years. If you're a bullseye shooter and focusing on that perfect shot - you're going to be too slow for any action pistol sports. But - you need to get wobble contained within the target area.
sorry, my ellipsis didn't fully convey my sarcasm. I may have been referring indirectly to another debate the other day.
 
IMO With proper training and practice they can be very effective especially for longer range shots. As well as many things in competition.

But in the intended usage for a compact self defense handgun, personally I'd say it's a luxury not a necessity. More electronics to potentially fail or break.
 
On some guns, a laser is pretty much the only option for me. My pocket gun is a Kahr PM9 and I’ve put a laser on it. I’ve also put a set of laser grips on my S&W Model 19.

Lasers certainly aren’t optimal, but I can’t focus on the front sight anymore, so it’s the best option I’ve got.

There is no need to focus on the front sight.. see it, yes, have it in focus, no
 
Appreciate your insight.
One consideration with red dots is that they don't work for folks with astigmatism, or amblyopia.
Astigmatism makes red dots look blurry. It can be corrected/fixed with lenses/glasses but if your vision is 20/20 and you have astigmatism, chances are you're not even aware of it.
Amblyopia is condition where one eye is slower to focus than the other. Extreme case of amblyopia is called "lazy eye". This condition makes it difficult to find the dot with both eyes open and cannot be corrected with glasses. The good news is that you can just use the one eye closed approach. Also, mild cases of amblyopia can be corrected by regular training. I have amblyopia and it took me a good 6 months(I'm old) of training before I could shoot red dot both eyes open without double vision.
 
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