Recruit Has A Bad Day At the Range

It can happen to an experienced shooter, too. Fatigue and distraction can cause people to mess up.


Agreed. A good friend of mine who I shot IPSC with shot himself in the leg doing drills at the range. He was practicing drawing drills.

He was a very experienced and competent shooter/range officer and he could have backed me up any time.

It can happen. We just hope it never does.
 
maybe the recruit was in his first hour [shocked][laugh]


anyways, all this cop bashing must stop

it wasn't his fault
it was the weapons fault

I don't necessarily blame the recruit. If he'd never handled a weapon prior to the Academy, I don't expect him to be Wyatt (freakin'!) Earp his first time out. But I do expect the instructors to watch like a hawk for screw ups like this. I'd rather he get verbally embarrassed than have a hole in his leg.

And obviously that weapon is not safe. Think of the children! [wink]
 
I Dunno sounds like he used that new fangled bang switch decocker.

Ive never tried it but i hear that if you place you firearm in its holster and pull the trigger it automatically decocks the gun for you !

Now thats Progress i remember when you had to manually decock a pistol before you put it in your holster.
 
Fatigue is a poor excuse.
It is, but it still happens. Read a few NTSB crash reports and you'll find more than a few where professional airline pilots with thousands of hours in the air were tired and that likely contributed to the accident.
But I do expect the instructors to watch like a hawk for screw ups like this.
Have you been to this type of training? I've been to several classes, including LFI, Sigarms Academy, Cumberland Tactics, etc. Student/instructor ratio in the classes that I took ranged from 1:4 to, I think, 1:12.

Each class taught us drawing and holstering, starting out dry, with quite a few repetitions. During those reps, the instructor walked behind the line and watched each person, to make sure that they were doing it right.

But once you've gone hot, the instructor physically can not stop a student from making this mistake. Even if you had a 1:1 student to instructor ratio (which you'll never have at a police academy), there's a good chance the instructor couldn't react quickly enough to stop the student from holstering with his finger on the trigger. With 1:4 ratio, there's only a 25% chance that the instructor is looking at the right student when he's starting the screw the pooch. So don't automatically blame the instructor. The student may well have been doing quite well before the accident.

We all try to be safe. Hopefully we're all well trained. But if you get tired, distracted, get into bad habits, that gun can bite you. Hard.

I try to take a class every year or two -- hopefully the instructor will see if I'm falling into bad habits. But that still won't save me from getting tired, distracted, and messing up.
 
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Would he be able to retire with a disability, even though he never served beyond the academy?

Not likely. Most pension systems require at least a few years in before they will allow a retirement on a disability. It was clear if this individual was even a full time officer and a member of the pension system. In fact as a recruit, he was even certified by the PTC yet.
 
There's no prize for fastest holstering.

M1911, I swear I'm not trying to be a dick here. [wink]

I got certified in weapon retention by the Mass. Criminal Justice Training Council a few years ago, and it was a very eye opening experience for me. I do armed security, and everyone I'd ever spoken to on the subject of holsters always stressed how important the "quickdraw" is in a dangerous situation, but no one I spoke to before I took this class (many many LEO's included) ever mentioned the importance of re-holstering quickly and safely.

The thing that stood out the most to me was something the instructor shared with us about one of his weapon retention experiences that he had working as a LEO. Long story short, but without too much fuss or details, he responded to a call, home invasion with a knife, it became a car chase, then a foot chase. The suspect, a multiple felon, was running with the knife, and at one point stopped and squared off with the cop. The cop drew his gun, the suspect dropped the knife and ran. The cop re-holstered very quickly as he ran, then managed to catch up to and tackle the suspect. The cop was knocked unconcious when they hit the ground, and woke up seeing double with the suspect on top of him, trying to get his gun out. He fought for his life and won. I believe he was carrying in a Safariland 070 holster, a snaps and straps style which is quick to draw from but slow to re-holster in without lots and lots of practice. He said how if he hadn't fully secured the gun in the holster as quick as he had, he'd be wearing a few of his own bullets. At the time he taught the class he carried in a hooded holster, much faster to draw and re-holster with for him (and me too).

IIRC something like 1/5 of cops killed annually in the US are killed with their own guns. They bring a gun to every call they respond to, and the only thing between that gun and everyone else's hands is the officer's training and their holster. What I'm saying is that IMO everyone should be able to safely draw and re-holster at the same speed, whether it's a CC gun or OC'ed on a duty belt. In the class the instructor told us how most department's he'd seen did very little if anything to train officers how to use their holsters safely and correctly.

I'm no LEO, and I certainly don't point my pistol at my leg when drawing or re-holstering, and my fingers always stay clear of the trigger guard unless I'm actively firing.

Just sayin'. [grin]
 
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GSG, I understand what you are saying, but I think it is a matter of considering the risks.

For a non-LEO, when would you have to reholster quickly? If a perp is grabbing for your gun, why reholster and wrestle? Why not shoot him instead?

If you've just shot a perp, why reholster quickly? Perps often travel in pairs. I agree with what Randy Cain taught -- bring the gun to a compressed ready at your chest, be sure of your surroundings (Are you sure it is safe to reholster? Is the perp still a threat? Are there any other threats?), verify that you have the safety on and/or have decocked as appropriate for your gun, finger in the register position, then reholster.

In the case that you described, if the officer had taken just a bit more time to reholster with more care, then he might not have caught up with the perp quite so quickly. What is the better choice: holster quickly and take the chance of shooting yourself versus holster more deliberately and the perp gets away?

More than a few experienced students at shooting schools have gotten tired and distracted, reholstered quickly without thinking, and had their finger on the trigger.

I've got 200 hours of training at LFI, Sigarms, Cumberland Tactics, etc. I've competed in IDPA. I can draw reasonably quickly. I can reholster reasonably quickly as well.

But I accept the fact that even with all that training I can still make a mistake. So I still try to do everything I can to reduce the chances of my making a potentially fatal mistake. I try to remember to pause prior to reholstering and thus to focus on what I'm doing and where my trigger finger is.
 
Not likely. Most pension systems require at least a few years in before they will allow a retirement on a disability. It was clear if this individual was even a full time officer and a member of the pension system. In fact as a recruit, he was even certified by the PTC yet.


rscalzo,

He would get full disability in Ma.
 
I have to give this recruit some credit. I spoke to one of his academy mates and they stated that he was back at the academy a day later giving full participation.

They left the bullet lodged in his leg as it would have been too risky to remove.
 
I have to give this recruit some credit. I spoke to one of his academy mates and they stated that he was back at the academy a day later giving full participation.

They left the bullet lodged in his leg as it would have been too risky to remove.

He must have had an interesting From-To to write. What, "booger hook off bang switch" 100 times? [wink]
 
The kids coming into the academies these days are unlike any seen before. THe majority of these kids if you ask them to throw a jab in Defensive tactics will start pushing there thumbs like a button.This is beacuse prior to this the only jab they have ever thrown was from there x-box or No friendo controller. The majority have zero gun knowledge or understadning, most are terrified of guns. Most of these kids have to be baby stepped through the entire process. There are actually remedial drills that show the shooter the gun will not hurt them when it goes off.
 
No friendo controller
+1 for that!

There are actually remedial drills that show the shooter the gun will not hurt them when it goes off.

I demonstrate some similar things to new shooters. Several pound hunks of metal a few feet from their head set off what sounds like an explosion, with a loud noise and flame, and under recoil move back towards their face. It is no surprise that new shooters are afraid of them.
 
He would get full disability in Ma.

Not a bad deal. In NJ, they have what they call "Alternate Route". That allows certain individuals to enter some NJ academies at their own expense and become PTC certified. As they are no in the PFRS (pension system) at this time, they do not qualify for the disability. This is also true for any Class II Special Police Officers in the academy for firearm's training.

Even so, the recruit salary scale isn't that great and 70 percent (NJ rates) for a total disability isn't worth it. A injury where a total recovery can be made does not qualify.
 
GSG, I understand what you are saying, but I think it is a matter of considering the risks.

For a non-LEO, when would you have to reholster quickly? If a perp is grabbing for your gun, why reholster and wrestle? Why not shoot him instead?

If you've just shot a perp, why reholster quickly? Perps often travel in pairs. I agree with what Randy Cain taught -- bring the gun to a compressed ready at your chest, be sure of your surroundings (Are you sure it is safe to reholster? Is the perp still a threat? Are there any other threats?), verify that you have the safety on and/or have decocked as appropriate for your gun, finger in the register position, then reholster.

In the case that you described, if the officer had taken just a bit more time to reholster with more care, then he might not have caught up with the perp quite so quickly. What is the better choice: holster quickly and take the chance of shooting yourself versus holster more deliberately and the perp gets away?

More than a few experienced students at shooting schools have gotten tired and distracted, reholstered quickly without thinking, and had their finger on the trigger.

I've got 200 hours of training at LFI, Sigarms, Cumberland Tactics, etc. I've competed in IDPA. I can draw reasonably quickly. I can reholster reasonably quickly as well.

But I accept the fact that even with all that training I can still make a mistake. So I still try to do everything I can to reduce the chances of my making a potentially fatal mistake. I try to remember to pause prior to reholstering and thus to focus on what I'm doing and where my trigger finger is.


OK, I typed a really in depth response here and it wouldn't post, then was lost to the internet forever.

I think situations are fluid, and can go from lethal to less lethal to calm and right back up to lethal in split seconds. I think it's important to be able to control drawing and re-holstering your weapon with one hand, because sometimes that's all you have. For a LEO, re-holstering can be the difference between life and death, as is evidenced in this post. http://northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=36753

As soon as it's safe to do so, put your gun away quickly, efficiently and safely. I'm not saying shoot them and put it away before the shell hits the ground, but be able to get it done without fumbling.

Most of us here live in the Commiewealth, where an unfavorable police report can result in you becoming "unsuitable" and losing your LTC. This is something I factor into any situation. I don't put it before my safety, but I understand that while I might genuinely need to draw, getting the police or other people involved may not be in my best interests. Again, when it's safe, I'll get it out of sight.

I agree that taking some care when putting it away can save your life, which is why making safe handling habits instinctive is also very important.

So to sum up my answer to you, yes, civilians are in different circumstances than LEO's, but the guy who shot himself was a LEO (or a LEO-to-be). [grin]

Oh, and one more thing, you said to put on the safety before re-holstering...do you carry a 1911 or similar single action pistol, or do you do this on all your guns?
 
rscalzo,

He would get full disability in Ma.

Massachusetts used to require 6 months or a year before you started contributing to the pension system. I believe that people in the "probationary" period could send a check after their period for the missing time.

However, workers are now generally automatically members of system, if they are in a civil service position from day 1.
 
Not a bad deal. In NJ, they have what they call "Alternate Route". That allows certain individuals to enter some NJ academies at their own expense and become PTC certified. As they are no in the PFRS (pension system) at this time, they do not qualify for the disability. This is also true for any Class II Special Police Officers in the academy for firearm's training.

Even so, the recruit salary scale isn't that great and 70 percent (NJ rates) for a total disability isn't worth it. A injury where a total recovery can be made does not qualify.

What is wrong with 70%? Massachusetts disability is usually 72%.

Please remember that it is not subject to federal or state taxation in Massachusetts.

Massachusetts never re-evaluates the person's disability status past 65. Therefore, they never become normal retirees such as people in a private disability scheme. Therefore, Mass disability retirees NEVER pay any fed tax, while private individuals start paying at 65 in most cases.

It is a pretty good deal to compensate for your losses.

bill
 
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