Record Keeping of Firearms Transferred Out-of-State

[GSX2005]

Here's the situation, I'm currently applying for an LEO position and my BI wants the records for firearms I sold/transferred out-of-state (I guess to prove they are no longer in my possession).

When a firearm is shipped out-of-state through an FFL, they are not required to report to the CHSB. Apparently, it seems sufficent to have the transaction recorded in the shop's log books. This really makes no sense to me. How can they ever track down a specific firearm if its transferred out-of-state (with no record at CHSB)? Is there some national database of something?

The good news is I've only used 2 shops to transfer my weapons, Four Seasons and Roach's Sporting Goods.

The bad news is, I may have to spend hours flipping through the log books to find my transactions. Is there an easier way to do this?

Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again.

 

[Pilgrim]

Why do they care if you have these guns or not? - or any guns for that matter. Why did the question of guns come up at all?

 

[Len-2A Training]

IANAL, nor do I play one on the Internet.

Unless you want to pay for legal advise, this is what I'd personally do and all that I would do to satisfy their curiosity!

- I would tell them IN WRITING that you transfered guns thru these two dealers, giving them approximate dates (to the best of your recollection) and which guns (if you recall).

- I would tell them that there is NO legal requirement for dealers to give you any paperwork on a sale to an FFL (I never received any on my sales) and thus you don't have any documentation.

- I would let them do the "investigation" (witch hunt), not you. The above is being cooperative, within your rights and the law.

- Yes, the system has no "log out" for disposal info in MA or even federally. There is NO database of all guns and all transactions that one can search.

- Carl is a great guy, but he shouldn't give you access to his books to search anything. If LE wants the info they can get it with a search warrant, but others aren't supposed to have access to that info (it is considered confidential, otherwise all firearms transactions would be reported in the Boston Globe regularly)! It may even be illegal (not sure) for an FFL to let anyone other than LE (under special circumstances or with a warrant) to have access to their bound books.

Realize that Four Seasons probably sells 30-50 guns in an average day . . . that is a LOT of transactions to go thru for a witch hunt!

It does raise a good point that for CYA purposes, it would pay for all of us to demand and get receipts for any sale transaction and keep them locked up forever.

Doing a BI on you, they can ASK for anything they want, even a sperm sample from you and a PAP smear from your Wife, but that doesn't mean that they are legally entitled to what they ask for or that you must go along with everything requested! Is there a risk by saying "no", yup, that is why you should give them what you can and be polite about it and let them carry it from there.

Just one person's advice and worth what you paid for it!

 

[GSX2005]

wow, LenS that was some response. But you are absolutely right on every point.

The issue of guns came up because for this particular LEO agency, recruits are not allowed to possess firearms while in the academy. In addition LTC permits must be surrendered. It really makes no sense at all.

During the interview with my BI, I already provided a written statement detailing make, model and serial number of every firearm I've owned/transferred, which shop handled the out-of-state transfer, and approximate dates. I think that should be more than sufficient.

Just wish I kept the damn receipts for the transfer fee. I have some, but not all.

 

[dwarven1]

The issue of guns came up because for this particular LEO agency, recruits are not allowed to possess firearms while in the academy. In addition LTC permits must be surrendered. It really makes no sense at all.

You have no Second Amendment rights while you're in this academy??? Where is this place, Kalifornia?

You're right, it makes no sense at all... and I wonder if it's even legal. (yeah, I know... if you want to attend, you gotta play by their rules...)

 

[Pilgrim]

My son recently graduated from the Mass police acadamy in Plymouth and there was no such requirement. ?????

So what would I have to do...sell my entire collection if I wanted to attend?

Seems totally illegal to me ... and STUPID !

 

[Len-2A Training]

GSX, I just read your reply here after replying to your PM.

NO WAY IN HELL that I'd allow them to confiscate everything just so you can be hired!

Yup, it is illegal, but they can/will get away with it. Sounds more and more like a PD that I'm familiar with! [cry]

Hell, if they don't trust their cadets with ANY firearms, what makes you think they will trust you later?

My motto: Don't trust me, then I don't trust you either!

This is worse than joining a monastery and taking the vows of poverty! I think we just found Osama folks (Osama Bin Kennedy)! [roll]

 

[TonyD]

There's quite a bit wrong with this deal. I'd certainly like to know who is requiring you to surrender all your firearms and license as a condition of employment. I'm sure a few lawyers would also like to know.

 

[Jarhead]

There's no job on earth that I would prostitute myself to and agree to that crap. I aint telling you what to do but if it was me I'd tell 'em to get F---ed and look for another job.

 

[Lynne]

There's quite a bit wrong with this deal. I'd certainly like to know who is requiring you to surrender all your firearms and license as a condition of employment.

Especially a LEO position! Geez - you're gonna be carrying a gun afterwards, right? Is it because they put you through brainwashing after hiring you, just to be on the safe side? Cripes... If it were me - NFW.

 

[JonJ]

There's quite a bit wrong with this deal. I'd certainly like to know who is requiring you to surrender all your firearms and license as a condition of employment.

Me too!

 

[GSX2005]

Wow, I didn't know this topic would create such as stir. Just to set the record straight its not a MA agency, it's the NYPD.

Before anyone calls me dumb, stupid or crazy, I have my own very personal reasons for wanting to join the NYPD. So if i want to get on the job I have to play by their rules.

Just for some background info and to put it in context, the NYPD holds two academy classes per year (Jan and Jun). The average academy class is 2,000 recruits. Even though I don't personally agree with the no firearms policy during the academy, it may not seem so ridiculous with the number of recruits involved.

I've heard horror stories... like a PPO accidentally firing off a round in the locker room on gun and shield day. That's some scary stuff.

 

[JonJ]

I've heard horror stories... like a PPO accidentally firing off a round in the locker room on gun and shield day. That's some scary stuff.

Hell that happens in locker rooms everywhere, believe me.

 

[Lynne]

Wow, I didn't know this topic would create such as stir. Just to set the record straight its not a MA agency, it's the NYPD.

Oh well...that explains it.

j/k GSX, hope you get the job.

 

[Len-2A Training]

GSX, I have some friends on NYPD. That does indeed explain it.

NYC prohibits almost all gun ownership anyway, which might be the driving motivation for this draconian measure. However, I don't know one NYPD officer who actually lives in the City, most live in LI.

I can see them not allowing you to possess guns at the academy, but turning in everything you own and "suspending" your valid LTC is way over the top. Just leave your guns and LTC in the hands of family in MA until you are done with the academy and settled in somewhere outside NYC.

Hopefully after you graduate they will grace you with a positive response to your request for a valid NYC Pistol Permit (a rare item only given to NYC LEOs and politically connected people).

I still wouldn't give in to their requirements to turn in everything you own.

 

[C-pher]

Yea, why can't you just give them to someone, then get them back after you're done?

 

[GSX2005]

Yea, why can't you just give them to someone, then get them back after you're done?

Believe me, I tried to think this one through...

The BI's advice was to voucher my firearms and permit with the local PD. Well, I inquired about this and they were looking at me like I had two heads. Apparently my local PD in MA doesn't voucher firearms and to top it off, they would have to revoke my license since I would be moving out-of-state.

I thought about doing a personal transfer to a close friend. A couple years ago, the transfer fee through an FFL was $30-40 per firearm. In order to get my guns back to NY, I would have to pay double transfer fee (to ship and receive) and the mandatory FedEx shipping. It would cost me hundreds just to keep my own guns!

So the easiest, cleanest way is to sell privately. I can use the money to defray the ~ $3,000 in expenses while attending the PA.

 

[C-pher]

Man, I'm really sorry. I have a lot that's old family rifles and pistols. I wouldn't be able give them away....

But if you have to sell, then I'm sure that you'll find enough people here to pick them up. [twisted]

 

[Pilgrim]

It's probably part of the 'conditioning' the recruits have to go thru to get into the 'proper' mindset. If the 'good guys' can't own guns, surely the rest of the peons in the state should never be allowed any.

Seriously, I wish you the best of luck in your career. I could never do it.

 

[Weerd Beard]

No wonder so many gun-haters are behind the badge when they let this shit fly!

-Weer'd Beard

 

[TonyD]

Not possessing a personal weapon AT the academy is a given. Giving up your personal firearms at the homestead is pure, unadulterated BS! I'm sorry, I would never belong to an organization that demands you give up your 2nd amendment rights regardless of the personal reasons.

Good luck.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Not possessing a personal weapon AT the academy is a given. Giving up your personal firearms at the homestead is pure, unadulterated BS! I'm sorry, I would never belong to an organization that demands you give up your 2nd amendment rights regardless of the personal reasons.

Good luck.

Tony, don't you know, NY'rs have no rights! [roll]

As for gun rights, that went out the window in NYC when the Sullivan Act became law. That was a very long time ago!! [cry]

 

[TonyD]

Not possessing a personal weapon AT the academy is a given. Giving up your personal firearms at the homestead is pure, unadulterated BS! I'm sorry, I would never belong to an organization that demands you give up your 2nd amendment rights regardless of the personal reasons.

Good luck.

Tony, don't you know, NY'rs have no rights! [roll]

As for gun rights, that went out the window in NYC when the Sullivan Act became law. That was a very long time ago!! [cry]

I know. And, I would never belong, or support, an organization that supports and enforces those illegal laws.