Record expunged, no arrest

[kalash]

Got into a bit of a debate about something...

Say someone had to appear in court for underage drinking at 18 but they were never arrested - do they put that down on their LTC application? Record should've been expunged. Edit: this was in PA.

 

[drgrant]

If it happened in mass there is no such thing as an expungement. A lot of times juvie shit gets sent down the river by telling someone that "the record will be sealed its like it never happened" which is basically a truckload of lies, lol.

Now, if it happened somewhere else... that has real expungement... whole different legal ballgame.

-Mike

 

[Mountain]

Court as in judge, or court clerk? IANAL, but an appearance in front of a clerk is not ‘court’.

 

[IPSC_DRL]

Never arrested but they had to appear in court?

If they had to appear, then they have to disclose it. CLO would have to be a real dink to hold them up for it.

 

[kalash]

This was in PA

 

[Qjake17]

I had a minor in possession of alcohol charge when 18, arrested, went to court, paid court fees. Put it on my application but leo said there was no record. YMMV
Always best to be honest, don't want to be denied for lying by omission.

 

[IPSC_DRL]

This was in PA

4. Have you ever been arrested or appeared in court as a defendant for any criminal offense?  YES  NO
The question does not relate to a specific state. I agree with Qjake17.

I assume you were already on the correct side of this "debate"..

 

[42!]

Never arrested but they had to appear in court?

Sure, why not. When I was 18 I was charged with driving to endanger (doing donuts in the Natick Mall parking lot around midnight), but not arrested, just summoned to court, charges dismissed. Same kind of thing as the OP, no one is going to care.

Just be sure to tell them. That they care about.

Frankly I would have just paid a reckless driving ticket, but Noooooo the cop went FR, even the judge thought it was too much.

 

[drgrant]

4. Have you ever been arrested or appeared in court as a defendant for any criminal offense?  YES  NO
The question does not relate to a specific state. I agree with Qjake17.

I assume you were already on the correct side of this "debate"..

Well, depending on the state it happened in, if you get a legal expungement, part of the whole point of doing that is, you get to legally act like it never happened. Now whether you want to
carry forward (in this case) with that approved-by-court legal fiction or not is another story.

IMHO most non douche issuing authorities wouldn't care about this stupid offense if you were
up front about admitting it.

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

Never arrested but they had to appear in court?

If they had to appear, then they have to disclose it. CLO would have to be a real dink to hold them up for it.

Like 42 says there are a bunch of reasons this can happen. Unreg/Uninsured in MA is another one, because criminal offense. Or driving on an expired or suspended license. All of these
are criminal things under MGL that only a total prick cop would actually go through the trouble of
performing an arrest... even an 8/10 prick is just going to hand you the criminal app citation and
that'll be the end of it until you get summoned (or you appeal it, which everyone should do. ).

Also hilarious food for thought.... there is no fee for appealing a criminal app, unlike a regular old speeding ticket where they charge you.

-Mike

 

[roccoracer]

Like 42 says there are a bunch of reasons this can happen. Unreg/Uninsured in MA is another one, because criminal offense. Or driving on an expired or suspended license. All of these
are criminal things under MGL that only a total prick cop would actually go through the trouble of
performing an arrest... even an 8/10 prick is just going to hand you the criminal app citation and
that'll be the end of it until you get summoned (or you appeal it, which everyone should do. ).

Also hilarious food for thought.... there is no fee for appealing a criminal app, unlike a regular old speeding ticket where they charge you.

-Mike

I must of had a full retard cop. I was arrested, cuffed, stuffed and put in a cell for a suspended license. Here is the best part. The suspension was for non paymemt of a $5 late fee on a fine I paid.

 

[roccoracer]

I also never went in front of a judge. The assistant D.A pulled me out of the court room and talked to me in another room. She was floored that I was arrested for it.
My reward was almost $1k in fines and impound fees and a cwof.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Court as in judge, or court clerk? IANAL, but an appearance in front of a clerk is not ‘court’.

I think that you mean Clerk Magistrate, which is indeed a judicial hearing and must be declared. Court Clerk shuffles the papers between judges and plaintiffs/defendants.

If the defendant doesn't act like a jerk, most LEOs will summons them into court instead of doing an arrest for minor charges. It still counts and is still on your record with the court.

I had a minor in possession of alcohol charge when 18, arrested, went to court, paid court fees. Put it on my application but leo said there was no record. YMMV
Always best to be honest, don't want to be denied for lying by omission.

Right, better to add something that they won't find than omit something and be denied per MGL.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Some other state's statutes give you the absolute right to answer "no" (the term is "legal fiction").

Good luck, however, convincing a MA licensing official of this if (s)he finds out about the expunged record. Safest to disclose.

 

[Mountain]

I think that you mean Clerk Magistrate, which is indeed a judicial hearing and must be declared. Court Clerk shuffles the papers between judges and plaintiffs/defendants.

If the defendant doesn't act like a jerk, most LEOs will summons them into court instead of doing an arrest for minor charges. It still counts and is still on your record with the court.



Right, better to add something that they won't find than omit something and be denied per MGL.

Yep, that's what I meant. If issued a CWOF in front of a clerk magistrate, good chance it won't even show up on your record. However... Totally agree that listing something that doesn't show up is 100% better than not listing something they find later.

Some other state's statutes give you the absolute right to answer "no" (the term is "legal fiction").

Good luck, however, convincing a MA licensing official of this if (s)he finds out about the expunged record. Safest to disclose.

Yep, safer to disclose.

 

[knoxy]

I must of had a full retard cop. I was arrested, cuffed, stuffed and put in a cell for a suspended license. Here is the best part. The suspension was for non paymemt of a $5 late fee on a fine I paid.

Same thing happened to me. Got pulled over for 40 in a 35. Then got hauled off and spent the day in jail for a warrant on a speeding ticket i already paid.

 

[kalash]

Thanks for all the replies

 

[nordic alien]

Got into a bit of a debate about something...

Say someone had to appear in court for underage drinking at 18 but they were never arrested - do they put that down on their LTC application? Record should've been expunged. Edit: this was in PA.

got 1 misdemeanor arrest when i was a minor and one at 18 almost 50 years ago. dismissed without finding: still showed up when i applied for my ltc. did not affect my permit in worcester: still have concealed

 

[RImike]

There is a supreme court case here in RI about this, an applicant for a LTC was arrested as a minor and had the case dismissed and records expunged. Techically speaking he was not arrested, even though he physically was. The police dept. that arrested him still kept a paper trail and had a record of the arrest and he was denied a CCP for answer the question incorrectly.

 

[LoginName]

I had a minor in possession of alcohol charge when 18, arrested, went to court, paid court fees. Put it on my application but leo said there was no record. YMMV
Always best to be honest, don't want to be denied for lying by omission.

How long ago were you arrested, and how long ago did the LEO tell you there was no record?

The reason there might have been no record at the time is that it was sitting in some filing cabinet buried
in some basement along with thousands of other filing cabinets waiting to be digitally entered into the
electronic database.

Government agencies at both the state and federal level have spent years and millions of dollars going
through previously unknown ancient arrest records and entering them into the system.

The result was that there were a lot of people who came up clean in prior background checks that were
suddenly finding themselves prohibited persons. Some of the arrests had gone back decades.
I had an ATF inspector tell me that they had to revoke a number of FFL licenses because of
previously unknown arrests.

Myself, I have a DUI going back to 1980 that apparently there is no record of, yet I always disclose it every time
I renew. On one of my renewals, the licensing officer even told me he searched high and low trying to
find it without any success.

For all I know, it might never turn up, but I'm still not going to risk it by not disclosing it.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

I had a "iffy" situation recently. When I did my RI renewal a few years ago, it was initially denied because they required some more documentation from me. I supplied the doc, and the renewal was issued before my then current RI permit expired. So, was this a "denial" even though there was no gap in the renewal?

I took no chances, and disclosed it during the MA LTC renewal interview. I was told it did not present a problem, and the unrestricted renewal went though without any hiccup. The bonus is I did not have to worry about the licensing officer finding out about the initial denial letter.

 

[KBCraig]

If it happened in mass there is no such thing as an expungement. A lot of times juvie shit gets sent down the river by telling someone that "the record will be sealed its like it never happened" which is basically a truckload of lies, lol.

Now, if it happened somewhere else... that has real expungement... whole different legal ballgame.

-Mike

In my former career, I was an NCIC/NLETS operator for the purpose of conducting background checks to allow entry to a secure federal facility.

Unfortunately, most of those visitors were from MA, and I cannot begin to tell you how totally hosed MA is when it comes to keeping records. Every single return with any arrest or official contact failed to list a disposition, and without that information, I couldn't approve them. I'd have to call the originating agency (usually a local PD), and they wouldn't have any record, and would refer me to the court. I'd call the court, and they wouldn't know either, and it would be 7-30 days before someone could dig through the paper archives.

NY went the opposite way, triggering pages and pages of false returns for the wrong person(s), based on a soundalike name or similar birthdate. I could sort out those more easily than dealing with MA, though.